On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
Protoss sucess was always very well distributed between players. There were usually a large ammount of Protoss players who could win things. Ever since GOMTVT ended, Terran sucess has been very top heavy, meaning the juggernauts of the race were the ones who racked up the titles. Its no surprise to get 3 Terrans in the top 4.
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
Maru was objectively the best terran, and made the playoffs of four GSL (inc OSL) seasons in a row (1st, ro4, ro8, ro4), and for the latter two no other terran could even make a ro8 (looking at 4/32 in Code S as well). He also made ro4 of blizzcon in the middle. What made this era more impressive is that it's one of the biggest examples of someone overcoming balance in all of sc2 history. That's something INno will never have, given for almost all of his career he only won when terran was up.
"Maru just had a bunch of semis" yeah while INno was failing to qualify for Code S and losing to duckdeok at blizzcon.
INno fell off after Maru 4-0'd him in 2013 season 2. And like most terrans was barely relevent during the blink era. Which absolutely didn't extend to when 2014 season 3 where he won.
I'll agree that Maru's TvZ was a weakness, in fact it's what stopped him from winning blizzcon 2013 and probably a GSL season or two back then. But acting like he wasn't miles ahead of Inno during that era is nonsense.
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
On July 19 2019 05:07 TheAnarchy wrote: I cant believe there are even maru fans LoL. His nickname back in the days was the stincky terran and now he has fans LoL.
I know your trolling but I on the other hand can't possibly understand how someone can hate Maru, I mean unless your Myungsik mom it's kind of like sucker punching a random person on the street.
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
Even though Anarchy is an obvious troll and not worth the trouble, thank you for this post. Always like a bit of statistics
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
On July 19 2019 05:07 TheAnarchy wrote: I cant believe there are even maru fans LoL. His nickname back in the days was the stincky terran and now he has fans LoL.
I know your trolling but I on the other hand can't possibly understand how someone can hate Maru, I mean unless your Myungsik mom it's kind of like sucker punching a random person on the street.
Why not? He's arrogant, at times likes to humiliate opponents, and he's essentially a Prime Terran who attempts to bore the viewers to death while parade pushing his way to victory.
Maru doesn’t seem arrogant to me, in fact he’s at the opposite end of the scale where he’s ridiculously falsely modest sometimes. I find that more irritating personally, although maybe it’s partly a cultural thing too.
Gotta respect the guys chops though, more of an Inno man myself for no real reason I can rationalise
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
Even though Anarchy is an obvious troll and not worth the trouble, thank you for this post. Always like a bit of statistics
I agree with the post for most part but I don't put too much stock in aligulac ratings when comparing the greatest players because they inflate a lot every year. Inno hit his peak in 2017 and has never really gotten near that level but back then, the top player had aligulac rating in the 2700-2800s, unlike nowadays where the number 1 is usually around 3000. I think it's useful in predicting current form (but not perfectly so because it favours players who are strong online like Solar while underestimating players who are weaker online like Stats, who rarely is in top 10 of aligulac rankings).
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
Even though Anarchy is an obvious troll and not worth the trouble, thank you for this post. Always like a bit of statistics
I agree with the post for most part but I don't put too much stock in aligulac ratings when comparing the greatest players because they inflate a lot every year. Inno hit his peak in 2017 and has never really gotten near that level but back then, the top player had aligulac rating in the 2700-2800s, unlike nowadays where the number 1 is usually around 3000. I think it's useful in predicting current form (but not perfectly so because it favours players who are strong online like Solar while underestimating players who are weaker online like Stats, who rarely is in top 10 of aligulac rankings).
Definitely a useful tool, but as you say has some flaws.
I mean just by human intuition Innovation’s most dominant form was what in 2013 or so, but his Aligulac rating at the time doesn’t reflect that.
Intangibles such as online performance from the comfort of one’s home vs offline form are hard to account for too.
You probably actually need as much online stuff as possible to get sufficient data to go off, but it’s a different beast what with home comforts, usually low stakes monetarily and there aren’t a huge amount of viewers
I loved the wall of text about Maru, it filled some gaps in me following the scene, made me appreciate a magnificent player that bit more. Hard to keep like 10 years of a game and a players achievements and track them without occasionally having a refresher on them all.
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
On July 19 2019 05:07 TheAnarchy wrote: I cant believe there are even maru fans LoL. His nickname back in the days was the stincky terran and now he has fans LoL.
I know your trolling but I on the other hand can't possibly understand how someone can hate Maru, I mean unless your Myungsik mom it's kind of like sucker punching a random person on the street.
Why not? He's arrogant, at times likes to humiliate opponents, and he's essentially a Prime Terran who attempts to bore the viewers to death while parade pushing his way to victory.
I agree he's been arrogant at times, especially when playing opponents much worse than him. But he definitely doesn't bore viewers to death. He's always pulling out random proxies and has some of the widest variety in strategy of any elite player. Not to mention he's one of the best highlight machines in sc2.
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote: 1.- Life. 2.- Innovation. 3.- MVP 4.-Taeja. 5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl. SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
Where was Maru during Blink Era? at least Innovation won a tourney in 2014 (while being in a slump), Maru didnt win shit
uhhh buddy you done goofed here.
Maru was bar none the highest performing Korean terran during the blink era (early 2014). He made Ro8 and Ro4 in the first two GSLs of that year (Inno wasnt EVEN IN CODE S in season 1 as he got fourth in his Code A promo group and went out in the second group stage in GSL season 2 that year). By the way Maru's season 1 run that year included a first place group finish in the second group stage with wins over Dear and Zest. Innovation did win GSL season 3 in 2014 but that was after blink wasn't the dominant force it was early in the year. For reference in season 1 and 2 of that year (where Maru vastly outperformed Innovation) Maru was one of THREE and FOUR terrans respectively in ALL of Code S, whereas Season 3 had 7. So Maru waaaaayyyy outperformed Innovation when Terran was in the gutter during the blink stalker era.
Also "while being in a slump". I hate when being "in a slump" is considered an excuse for someone not playing well. It's basically saying "they were only playing bad for a period of time because they were bad for that period of time". There's no mitigating factor.
LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time. Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs. His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.
uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you
First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).
The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.
Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go
If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).
Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.
The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.
Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao
Even though Anarchy is an obvious troll and not worth the trouble, thank you for this post. Always like a bit of statistics
I agree with the post for most part but I don't put too much stock in aligulac ratings when comparing the greatest players because they inflate a lot every year. Inno hit his peak in 2017 and has never really gotten near that level but back then, the top player had aligulac rating in the 2700-2800s, unlike nowadays where the number 1 is usually around 3000. I think it's useful in predicting current form (but not perfectly so because it favours players who are strong online like Solar while underestimating players who are weaker online like Stats, who rarely is in top 10 of aligulac rankings).
Definitely a useful tool, but as you say has some flaws.
I mean just by human intuition Innovation’s most dominant form was what in 2013 or so, but his Aligulac rating at the time doesn’t reflect that.
Intangibles such as online performance from the comfort of one’s home vs offline form are hard to account for too.
You probably actually need as much online stuff as possible to get sufficient data to go off, but it’s a different beast what with home comforts, usually low stakes monetarily and there aren’t a huge amount of viewers
I loved the wall of text about Maru, it filled some gaps in me following the scene, made me appreciate a magnificent player that bit more. Hard to keep like 10 years of a game and a players achievements and track them without occasionally having a refresher on them all.
Yeah I think the aligulac thing was by far my weakest point. I threw it in because I happened to have like four aligulac tabs open looking at H2H stats and it caught my eye haha
HotS was when I was following the game the closest so it was easier for me to recall but even some of the stuff I found just looking through results surprised me! It can be fun to take that trip down memory lane
Also been away from TL for too long and I forgot who is and who isn’t worth responding too haha but I had fun doing it anyway
On July 19 2019 05:07 TheAnarchy wrote: I cant believe there are even maru fans LoL. His nickname back in the days was the stincky terran and now he has fans LoL.
I know your trolling but I on the other hand can't possibly understand how someone can hate Maru, I mean unless your Myungsik mom it's kind of like sucker punching a random person on the street.
Maru annoys me moderately by going for the most predictable build possible and somehow catching his opponent off guard with it and winning. And that's when he isn't doing something completely brain-dead like forgetting that buildings can fly. That's still pretty far from hating him, but I get why some people don't like him much.