Team Liquid GOAT contest Final 8 - Page 13

On July 16 2019 03:41 deacon.frost wrote:

4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.

But nice trolling

On July 19 2019 00:48 TheAnarchy wrote:


LoL Maru fans are totally bia. Inno won GSL in 2014, Blink era didnt last just 2 gsl as you implied. Maru just had a bunch of semis in that time.
Is just a fact that maru tvz sucked he lost frecuently against life, soulkey, soo, jd and other top zergs.
His tvt was good but not top such as inno, taeja, bomber or polt.

On July 19 2019 02:09 Darkhorse wrote:

uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you

First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).

The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.

Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go

If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).

Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.

The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.

Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao

On July 19 2019 02:09 Darkhorse wrote:

uggggghhhh you're going to make me look things up aren't you

First point: that blink era lasted all of 2014 therefore Innovation should get credit for defeating blink to win his GSL in late 2014. It is undeniably true that the first half of 2014 was the real era of the blink stalker builds. Protoss lost ground in GSL throughout the year, but it was CLEAR in season 3 that the balance had shifted back. In the round of 16 in season 3 of that year there was an even number of P and T players (5). Compare that to the first two seasons where the ratio was 9/2 and 7/2 respectively (Maru and Bbyong and Maru and Inno).

The reason for this can be seen if you go back through the patches of that year, as Blizzard tried multiple times to decrease the power of the blink build mostly through nerfs to the mothership core.First on February 3rd 2014, the energy cost for time warp went up. Then on March 1st, they decreased the mothership core's vision was decreased (clearly to address the problem of the blink build where the mothership core provided easy vision for blinking onto high ground). In July they hit the mothership core the hardest with a reduction in time warp duration from 30 to 10 seconds, making defending against the blink build much easier as time warp killed your ability to get close enough to stutter-stepping stalkers with marines, but 10 seconds was way easier to wait out. So for those keeping score at home, the last of three major nerfs to the blink build happened on July 25th of 2014, about two weeks before Innovation's first group stage in GSL season 3.

Second point, TvZ. As an aside, why did you bring this up? You brought up a false claim about the blink stalker era and then immediately jumped to TvZ, despite the fact that I didn't discuss Maru's TvZ at all? I would've probably let it stand if you hadn't also included some random factual inaccuracies in your "Maru was bad at TvZ" claim but here we go

If we're gonna talk about 2014 (I'm assuming this is the era you're referring to for his TvZ as well considering that's when we were talking about the blink thing but correct me if I'm wrong). Maru was 40-18 in TvZ over that span while Innovation was 37-16. That's roughly an equal record. Here's the fun thing though: Maru played only a single non-Korean Zerg over the entire year, a qualifier for IEM where he played Chinese Zerg intowind. Innovation played nineteen matches against foreigners and went 15-4 and went 22-12 against Koreans. They basically lost to the same people throughout the year, the only difference being Maru's worst TvZ losses were probably Effort and Curious while Inno's were Starbuck and Tefel (lmao).

Now to talk about the "top zergs" losses. First off, Maru played JD twice in his career both in 2013, although he did lose both times. The point here is that we were talking about a different time period and you said he lost to Jaedong "frequently" which means you pulled that out of your ass without looking it up. Another fun fact: Inno is 7-7 against Life and Maru is 5-5. They both hold a slight lead over life in game wins. That means that if you're criticizing Maru for losing to Life you also have to criticize Inno. Even more actually because Inno has more losses to Life as 7>5! Who knew?! Both Innovation and Maru are well up on soO in lifetime record, and Maru barely played soO during the time we're talking about. I will cede exactly one point to you: that Inno had a much better record against Soulkey than Maru did.

The TvT is an interesting point. While it is worth noting that TvT was Maru's worst matchup at the time, he was also the only one of the five terrans you talked about who stayed entirely in Korea. Taeja, Polt, and Bomber all played in WCS America and frequently played lower level competition. Innovation's record in TvT was inflated by the Acer Teamstory Cup and Dreamhacks which Maru wasn't able to attend not being on a foreign team. I'm not gonna say that Maru's TvT was great at the time. It wasn't. But it would've been interesting to see the records of the other four had they regularly been playing people like TY and Flash instead of Dayshi and Xenocider lmao. Also TvT was not a very relevant matchup at the time because as noted before there were BARELY ANY TERRANS in GSL or other major tournaments at the time.

Also Maru has the highest aligulac rating in every single matchup for Terran all time. In short, you could look stuff up on aligulac or liquipedia before saying blatantly false things. Or you could keep doing this and making me do it for you. Please choose the former lmao

On July 19 2019 06:18 Nakajin wrote:


I know your trolling but I on the other hand can't possibly understand how someone can hate Maru, I mean unless your Myungsik mom it's kind of like sucker punching a random person on the street.

On July 19 2019 06:30 sneakyfox wrote:


Thanks for the great post!




Why not? He's arrogant, at times likes to humiliate opponents, and he's essentially a Prime Terran who attempts to bore the viewers to death while parade pushing his way to victory.