Welcome everyone, it's been a long time coming but after 3 month and 4 round of vote we are left with only 8 man in contention for the title of the greatest in the game.
For those who have missed the rest of the contest, have no idea what I'm talking about or just want and recap on what happen, you can go check out the main thread or the liquipedia page:
This time around we are gonna do one poll at the time, polls will open/close thursday night and Sunday night EST. Also, results and screen cap will be added to the first thread, for those who wishes to see the results after the fact.
With that said it's time to crown the Greatest Starcraft 2 player of all time!
Innovation for sure - what's the most prestigious tournament that Taeja has won? Dreamhack Winter - dude hasn't even been to the finals of a premier Korean tournament
Nestea about to get eliminated soon too. Not sure how he made top 10 when his last premier tournament win was summer 2011.
On one hand when TaeJa spends all his time watching K-drama he still wins tournaments unlike INno when he spends all his time on League of Legends. On the other there's the results. Voted for INnoVation and it isn't particularly close.
Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
This would be my personal opinion in regards to this contest, we'll see how it plays out. Top three should be a lock at least in my opinion. Missing Life, Classic, MC and Serral is getting closer and closer to deserve to be ranked among the greatest of all time.
On July 05 2019 17:22 Shuffleblade wrote: Innovation -> Taeja soO -> Nestea Maru -> Stats Zest <- MVP
Innovation -> soO Maru -> MVP
Maru -> Innovation
Maru Innovation MVP soO Stats Taeja Nestea Zest
This would be my personal opinion in regards to this contest, we'll see how it plays out. Top three should be a lock at least in my opinion. Missing Life, Classic, MC and Serral is getting closer and closer to deserve to be ranked among the greatest of all time.
agreed. Regarding Maru and Inno, if you compare their achievements, they are very close but like in BW most people think Flash is greatest and not Nada. I think Inno's longevity is incredible and has value but Maru has good longevity and a GSL run that no one can/will ever come even close to.
Also, tbh I can see Serral being top 5 in 2 more years since Stats, Zest, soO, sOs and many others will go to military soon (so he can catch up) but right now 18th place looks fair.
On July 05 2019 14:03 Kitai wrote: Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
Pretty much the same, the impression of skill I had when I watched him was only matched by Life, no other starcraft 2 player gave me this much as these two.
Btw, seeing Nestea counted as "greatest" while he dominated an area filled with clown fiesta games (most players didn't know what to do) and not that great plays feels a bit cringy, he didn't even bring a lot of results in 2012 and was not the best zerg in the end of 2011. + he is credited for having settled the meta with his ling/bane muta (and so shaped the zerg race) which is wrong, it was already commonly used before his influencial win in gsl. In term of meta influence, drg and stephano are largely above him. This ranking makes him the most overrated player by far.
On July 05 2019 14:03 Kitai wrote: Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
Pretty much the same, the impression of skill I had when I watched him was only matched by Life, no other starcraft 2 player gave me this much as these two.
Btw, seeing Nestea counted as "greatest" while he dominated an area filled with clown fiesta games (most players didn't know what to do) and not that great plays feels a bit cringy, he didn't even bring a lot of results in 2012 and was not the best zerg in the end of 2011. + he is credited for having settled the meta with his ling/bane muta (and so shaped the zerg race) which is wrong, it was already commonly used before his influencial win in gsl. In term of meta influence, drg and stephano are largely above him. This ranking makes him the most overrated player by far.
Well the top 8 was heavily influenced by bracket luck, Nestea got top 8 by defeating Symbol, Bomber and Polt, all players that he is reasonably greater than.
I think most agree that he doesn't really belong in top 10 but its the way the bracket played out. I'm trying to say he isn't really overrated just blessed by luck, which could also be a skill in itself =P
On July 05 2019 14:03 Kitai wrote: Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
Pretty much the same, the impression of skill I had when I watched him was only matched by Life, no other starcraft 2 player gave me this much as these two.
Btw, seeing Nestea counted as "greatest" while he dominated an area filled with clown fiesta games (most players didn't know what to do) and not that great plays feels a bit cringy, he didn't even bring a lot of results in 2012 and was not the best zerg in the end of 2011. + he is credited for having settled the meta with his ling/bane muta (and so shaped the zerg race) which is wrong, it was already commonly used before his influencial win in gsl. In term of meta influence, drg and stephano are largely above him. This ranking makes him the most overrated player by far.
Well the top 8 was heavily influenced by bracket luck, Nestea got top 8 by defeating Symbol, Bomber and Polt, all players that he is reasonably greater than.
I think most agree that he doesn't really belong in top 10 but its the way the bracket played out. I'm trying to say he isn't really overrated just blessed by luck, which could also be a skill in itself =P
I agree for the last part haha But it's still crazy, at least for me that he triumphs over Bomber and Polt's longevity, I would rank him one tier below those two who remained competitive for 4/5 years at the hightest level while he became progressively irrelevant after 1 year.
On July 05 2019 14:03 Kitai wrote: Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
Pretty much the same, the impression of skill I had when I watched him was only matched by Life, no other starcraft 2 player gave me this much as these two.
Btw, seeing Nestea counted as "greatest" while he dominated an area filled with clown fiesta games (most players didn't know what to do) and not that great plays feels a bit cringy, he didn't even bring a lot of results in 2012 and was not the best zerg in the end of 2011. + he is credited for having settled the meta with his ling/bane muta (and so shaped the zerg race) which is wrong, it was already commonly used before his influencial win in gsl. In term of meta influence, drg and stephano are largely above him. This ranking makes him the most overrated player by far.
Well the top 8 was heavily influenced by bracket luck, Nestea got top 8 by defeating Symbol, Bomber and Polt, all players that he is reasonably greater than.
I think most agree that he doesn't really belong in top 10 but its the way the bracket played out. I'm trying to say he isn't really overrated just blessed by luck, which could also be a skill in itself =P
I agree for the last part haha But it's still crazy, at least for me that he triumphs over Bomber and Polt's longevity, I would rank him one tier below those two who remained competitive for 4/5 years at the hightest level while he became progressively irrelevant after 1 year.
Bomber's longevity? You mean, Bomber's looooooong periods of letting everybody down, interspersed with rare flames of utter brilliance? I'd take Nestea's consistency for a shorter timespan over that any day. Think what gave him the win over Polt was that his victories were vs harder Korean opponents, rather than most of them coming from beating relatively weak opposition overseas. Don't get me wrong, I really like Polt, but Nestea's WoL reign was more impressive than anything Polt has done.
E: moreover, if one of those two made it through, we'd be having the exact same discussion about what they ever did to make it into the top 8 greatest of all time Nestea, at least, is a 3-time GSL winner and second-greatest player of WoL (and the greatest of WoL has a legit case for GOAT).
On July 05 2019 14:03 Kitai wrote: Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
Pretty much the same, the impression of skill I had when I watched him was only matched by Life, no other starcraft 2 player gave me this much as these two.
Btw, seeing Nestea counted as "greatest" while he dominated an area filled with clown fiesta games (most players didn't know what to do) and not that great plays feels a bit cringy, he didn't even bring a lot of results in 2012 and was not the best zerg in the end of 2011. + he is credited for having settled the meta with his ling/bane muta (and so shaped the zerg race) which is wrong, it was already commonly used before his influencial win in gsl. In term of meta influence, drg and stephano are largely above him. This ranking makes him the most overrated player by far.
Well the top 8 was heavily influenced by bracket luck, Nestea got top 8 by defeating Symbol, Bomber and Polt, all players that he is reasonably greater than.
I think most agree that he doesn't really belong in top 10 but its the way the bracket played out. I'm trying to say he isn't really overrated just blessed by luck, which could also be a skill in itself =P
The top 8 may have been influenced by bracket luck but other than Nestea I'd say all of the players there have a solid case for being the top 8 of all time. The only other one people tend to argue against is Zest despite the fact he is the most successful Protoss of all time, both in terms of number of wins and prestige of those wins.
On July 05 2019 14:03 Kitai wrote: Head says INnoVation since he remains relevant while god-TaeJa retired years ago.
Heart says TaeJa was the most talented Terran to ever touch a keyboard. The sheer amount of raw skill witnessed made him and Life the two most jaw-dropping and fun players to watch in all of SC2. Yes, I'm a biased fanboy.
Voted TaeJa.
A prayer, for those who remember: "Our lord Taeja, who art in Korea, hallowed be thy macro. Thy Orbital come, thy +3 be done, on ladder as it is in IEM. Give us this day our daily cheese, and forgive us our BM as we forgive those who BM against us. Lead us not into all-ins, but deliver us from Protoss. For thine is the 3rd CC, and the MULES, and the Stim, for ever and ever. Amen."
Pretty much the same, the impression of skill I had when I watched him was only matched by Life, no other starcraft 2 player gave me this much as these two.
Btw, seeing Nestea counted as "greatest" while he dominated an area filled with clown fiesta games (most players didn't know what to do) and not that great plays feels a bit cringy, he didn't even bring a lot of results in 2012 and was not the best zerg in the end of 2011. + he is credited for having settled the meta with his ling/bane muta (and so shaped the zerg race) which is wrong, it was already commonly used before his influencial win in gsl. In term of meta influence, drg and stephano are largely above him. This ranking makes him the most overrated player by far.
Well the top 8 was heavily influenced by bracket luck, Nestea got top 8 by defeating Symbol, Bomber and Polt, all players that he is reasonably greater than.
I think most agree that he doesn't really belong in top 10 but its the way the bracket played out. I'm trying to say he isn't really overrated just blessed by luck, which could also be a skill in itself =P
The top 8 may have been influenced by bracket luck but other than Nestea I'd say all of the players there have a solid case for being the top 8 of all time. The only other one people tend to argue against is Zest despite the fact he is the most successful Protoss of all time, both in terms of number of wins and prestige of those wins.
Who has a problem with Zest? He is definitely top 8 lol. Its actually Taeja who should not be there, along with Nestea
On July 05 2019 17:22 Shuffleblade wrote: Innovation -> Taeja soO -> Nestea Maru -> Stats Zest <- MVP
Innovation -> soO Maru -> MVP
Maru -> Innovation
Maru Innovation MVP soO Stats Taeja Nestea Zest
This would be my personal opinion in regards to this contest, we'll see how it plays out. Top three should be a lock at least in my opinion. Missing Life, Classic, MC and Serral is getting closer and closer to deserve to be ranked among the greatest of all time.
agreed. Regarding Maru and Inno, if you compare their achievements, they are very close but like in BW most people think Flash is greatest and not Nada. I think Inno's longevity is incredible and has value but Maru has good longevity and a GSL run that no one can/will ever come even close to.
Also, tbh I can see Serral being top 5 in 2 more years since Stats, Zest, soO, sOs and many others will go to military soon (so he can catch up) but right now 18th place looks fair.
Maru and soO are overrated career wise(their skill and level of play are on the other hand undeniable), and that's because you guys rank Code S so incredibly high(and, conversely, non korean tournaments so low that Serral being #18 is one acceptable ranking to your eyes).
The fact Code A is now very weak compared to the past surely made Maru's Code S streak easier, but he is without any doubt the greatest GSL player ever existed and by far the most accomplished in korean leagues considering he won OSL and SSL too. Firm on his throne in his homeland, Maru had results roughly comparable to Marineking's abroad(less titles, more prestigious); do you really think the GOAT should be someone who displayed so little in international tournaments(and never won one outside of Asia)? Inno won more, more consistently and proved his skills in every tournament and environment; if I had to choose between the two, I'd have no doubts who to crown.
soO is a magnificent Kong, a very relevant player who has been the best of his race multiple times. Yes, he reached six Code S finals, but how do you justify ranking him that high against players who actually won much more? The fact that he embodies the will of never surrendering and that his tenacity was repaid in the end with a very prestigious title this year surely adds to his objective achievements, but then how can you discard so quickly and abruptly Mvp's story of winning titles against odds and physical decay?
On July 05 2019 17:22 Shuffleblade wrote: Innovation -> Taeja soO -> Nestea Maru -> Stats Zest <- MVP
Innovation -> soO Maru -> MVP
Maru -> Innovation
Maru Innovation MVP soO Stats Taeja Nestea Zest
This would be my personal opinion in regards to this contest, we'll see how it plays out. Top three should be a lock at least in my opinion. Missing Life, Classic, MC and Serral is getting closer and closer to deserve to be ranked among the greatest of all time.
agreed. Regarding Maru and Inno, if you compare their achievements, they are very close but like in BW most people think Flash is greatest and not Nada. I think Inno's longevity is incredible and has value but Maru has good longevity and a GSL run that no one can/will ever come even close to.
Also, tbh I can see Serral being top 5 in 2 more years since Stats, Zest, soO, sOs and many others will go to military soon (so he can catch up) but right now 18th place looks fair.
Maru and soO are overrated career wise(their skill and level of play are on the other hand undeniable), and that's because you guys rank Code S so incredibly high(and, conversely, non korean tournaments so low that Serral being #18 is one acceptable ranking to your eyes).
Yes, that is your opinion. There are also people who think Serral is overrated career wise, because guys like you rate WCS too high, and Code S too low. Unfortunately for you, your opinion is hard to justify because Code S is the best league in the world while WCS has 1 player theoretically capable of winning GSL, and 4 more who are good enough to qualify and get some decent results there. Just deal with it, WCS is irrelevant in a GOAT discussion and if Serral would ever want to be considered top 10 player of all time he would need to either win 2-3 more Blizzcons or compete in Code S.
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/29.jpg)
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soO: 43 votes
INnoVation: 81 votes
Stats: 50 votes
Nestea, at least, is a 3-time GSL winner and second-greatest player of WoL (and the greatest of WoL has a legit case for GOAT).
