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Canada8990 Posts
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers...
Also "retired"
On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results).
Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran.
Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else.
Still it's a close one for me.
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On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results).
Competed in a more competitive era, longevity, Proleague results, same amount of championships in korean tournaments. It's really not as much of a stretch.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL  ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier.
But nice trolling
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On July 16 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers... Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results). Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran. Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else. Still it's a close one for me.
After Life retired, people started playing LoTV, an entirely different game; also, foreigners beating koreans=low level of play? Old and stale, if ever was true.
Zest being the best Protoss and Mvp not being the best Terran are reasonable, yet debatable, claims.
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On July 16 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers... Also "retired" Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results). Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran. Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else. Still it's a close one for me.
Then you should probably have made a different tournament. I think we can definitely have a discussion about GPOAT, GTOAT and GZOAT, but that isn't this one. Even though Mvp's biggest successes came during GomTvT, terran wasn't actually that dominating. It just so happened that the best players of the time mostly played Terran. And the best of those was Mvp. Yes, both Innovation and Maru have since then overtaken him in most metrics (although Mvp should still be credited for figuring out most of the core mechanics of how to Terran in SC2), so he is only the 3rd best Terran. He's still better than all the Protoss. Both in what he meant to the game and in number of prizes he won.
Not sure I even agree with you that Zest is the GPOAT. sOs is, imho, greater. But sOs got knocked out last round by, you guessed it, Mvp 
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On July 16 2019 03:41 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier. But nice trolling
OSL fuck that shit I member
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Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4
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On July 16 2019 19:04 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers... Also "retired" On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results). Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran. Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else. Still it's a close one for me. Then you should probably have made a different tournament. I think we can definitely have a discussion about GPOAT, GTOAT and GZOAT, but that isn't this one. Even though Mvp's biggest successes came during GomTvT, terran wasn't actually that dominating. It just so happened that the best players of the time mostly played Terran. And the best of those was Mvp. Yes, both Innovation and Maru have since then overtaken him in most metrics (although Mvp should still be credited for figuring out most of the core mechanics of how to Terran in SC2), so he is only the 3rd best Terran. He's still better than all the Protoss. Both in what he meant to the game and in number of prizes he won. Not sure I even agree with you that Zest is the GPOAT. sOs is, imho, greater. But sOs got knocked out last round by, you guessed it, Mvp
Specifically, it wasn't that Terran just had the best players during GomTvT, it was that they had the most mapped out race, and that was because Mvp mapped out the whole playstyle, while even players like Nestea and MC left great areas of their race unmapped, so players had a harder time performing with those races.
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On July 16 2019 22:18 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 19:04 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers... Also "retired" On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results). Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran. Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else. Still it's a close one for me. Then you should probably have made a different tournament. I think we can definitely have a discussion about GPOAT, GTOAT and GZOAT, but that isn't this one. Even though Mvp's biggest successes came during GomTvT, terran wasn't actually that dominating. It just so happened that the best players of the time mostly played Terran. And the best of those was Mvp. Yes, both Innovation and Maru have since then overtaken him in most metrics (although Mvp should still be credited for figuring out most of the core mechanics of how to Terran in SC2), so he is only the 3rd best Terran. He's still better than all the Protoss. Both in what he meant to the game and in number of prizes he won. Not sure I even agree with you that Zest is the GPOAT. sOs is, imho, greater. But sOs got knocked out last round by, you guessed it, Mvp Specifically, it wasn't that Terran just had the best players during GomTvT, it was that they had the most mapped out race, and that was because Mvp mapped out the whole playstyle, while even players like Nestea and MC left great areas of their race unmapped, so players had a harder time performing with those races.
That is actually a really interesting argument, I've never thought about it in that way before. The hurdle was more that there was few terrrans which good enough mechanics to really get the most out of terran while the other races were more in the dark. Interesting perspective.
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On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4
Actually should the upper bracket be Inno-soO and Taeja-Nestea we would have 4 Terrans in top 4, such a missed opportunity.
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On July 16 2019 03:41 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
4 GSL, but he won an SSL and an OSL during the Innovation reign of terror while beating him 4:0 in one of the fastest BO7 in history of SC2. (NOT sure if during the OSL or SSL ) One of the most stable Terrans(where was Inno during the blink era? ) one of the best Terrans in Proleague while being stable across all the seasons. While he wasn't the top based on the wins he wasn't nowhere near the 2nd tier. But nice trolling
I would like to know his reasoning for having Zest AND TaeJa over Maru. I also think the words they are looking for is "Banned indefinitely."
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Bisutopia19351 Posts
On July 16 2019 23:17 yht9657 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4 Actually should the upper bracket be Inno-soO and Taeja-Nestea we would have 4 Terrans in top 4, such a missed opportunity.
No worries, this isn't far what a Brood War poll would have looked like. It's doubtful a Protoss touches the top 4 and arguably 3 Terrans could occupy the top 3. It's so similar too because you have to eliminate arguably Zerg best Savior from consideration too.
Top 10 arguably (and considerably in this order):
 Flash, NaDa, Oov,  Jaedong, BoxeR,  Bisu, FanTaSy, Stork, GoRush, EffOrt
Elo Peak Order:
Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, FanTaSy, Oov, NaDa, Stork, GoRush, EffOrt, JangBi
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On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4
It's not that surprising without Life, he is a legit top 5.
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On July 17 2019 01:11 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 23:17 yht9657 wrote:On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4 Actually should the upper bracket be Inno-soO and Taeja-Nestea we would have 4 Terrans in top 4, such a missed opportunity. No worries, this isn't far what a Brood War poll would have looked like. It's doubtful a Protoss touches the top 4 and arguably 3 Terrans could occupy the top 3. It's so similar too because you have to eliminate arguably Zerg best Savior from consideration too. Top 10 arguably (and considerably in this order): Flash, NaDa, Oov, Jaedong, BoxeR, Bisu, FanTaSy, Stork, GoRush, EffOrtElo Peak Order: Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, FanTaSy, Oov, NaDa, Stork, GoRush, EffOrt, JangBi
With the notable difference Terran dominated Brood War in terms of Starleague titles, whereas Premiers are distributed pretty evenly in Sc2(Protoss ahead by two if I remember correctly, out of 250+ tournaments); curiously, in Korean leagues only, Terran won a lot, almost like in BW but that's not really the case in international tournaments(winning only two BlizzCon and one IEM Katowice, for example).
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Bisutopia19351 Posts
On July 17 2019 01:44 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 01:11 BisuDagger wrote:On July 16 2019 23:17 yht9657 wrote:On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4 Actually should the upper bracket be Inno-soO and Taeja-Nestea we would have 4 Terrans in top 4, such a missed opportunity. No worries, this isn't far what a Brood War poll would have looked like. It's doubtful a Protoss touches the top 4 and arguably 3 Terrans could occupy the top 3. It's so similar too because you have to eliminate arguably Zerg best Savior from consideration too. Top 10 arguably (and considerably in this order): Flash, NaDa, Oov, Jaedong, BoxeR, Bisu, FanTaSy, Stork, GoRush, EffOrtElo Peak Order: Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, FanTaSy, Oov, NaDa, Stork, GoRush, EffOrt, JangBi With the notable difference Terran dominated Brood War in terms of Starleague titles, whereas Premiers are distributed pretty evenly in Sc2(Protoss ahead by two if I remember correctly, out of 250+ tournaments); curiously, in Korean leagues only, Terran won a lot, almost like in BW but that's not really the case in international tournaments(winning only two BlizzCon and one IEM Katowice, for example).
Yeah this really applies strictly to counting Korean only tournaments. Still is amazing how similar the histories look. Protoss having so many dragons in SC2, but none reaching god level like MVP, Inno, soO (or Life), Maru.
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To me, Zest vs Mvp was actually kind of a tough call... I have trouble justifying votes for NesTea and Mvp since their reigns of dominance ended so long ago. They were absolutely the two most celebrated players of WoL, but MvP has been irrelevant for 2/3rds of the SC2s lifespan and NesTea for even longer than that. Mvp was the GOAT for his era, but for all of SC2? I'm not so sure.
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Canada8990 Posts
On July 17 2019 02:01 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 01:44 Xain0n wrote:On July 17 2019 01:11 BisuDagger wrote:On July 16 2019 23:17 yht9657 wrote:On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4 Actually should the upper bracket be Inno-soO and Taeja-Nestea we would have 4 Terrans in top 4, such a missed opportunity. No worries, this isn't far what a Brood War poll would have looked like. It's doubtful a Protoss touches the top 4 and arguably 3 Terrans could occupy the top 3. It's so similar too because you have to eliminate arguably Zerg best Savior from consideration too. Top 10 arguably (and considerably in this order): Flash, NaDa, Oov, Jaedong, BoxeR, Bisu, FanTaSy, Stork, GoRush, EffOrtElo Peak Order: Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, FanTaSy, Oov, NaDa, Stork, GoRush, EffOrt, JangBi With the notable difference Terran dominated Brood War in terms of Starleague titles, whereas Premiers are distributed pretty evenly in Sc2(Protoss ahead by two if I remember correctly, out of 250+ tournaments); curiously, in Korean leagues only, Terran won a lot, almost like in BW but that's not really the case in international tournaments(winning only two BlizzCon and one IEM Katowice, for example). Yeah this really applies strictly to counting Korean only tournaments. Still is amazing how similar the histories look. Protoss having so many dragons in SC2, but none reaching god level like MVP, Inno, soO (or Life), Maru.
I tried to count only tournaments won by Koreans (foreign event included) and I got 77 Terran, 50 Zerg (40 without Life) and 64 for Protoss.
So with Koreans, Terrans are well in the lead (and zerg well behind), nothing as crazy as BW tho.
Edit for Korean tournament I got: 21t-20z-26p (my commute to work is long guys)
Also: Who's GoRush? Granted I don't follow BW, but I never heard the name
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On July 17 2019 02:01 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 01:44 Xain0n wrote:On July 17 2019 01:11 BisuDagger wrote:On July 16 2019 23:17 yht9657 wrote:On July 16 2019 21:38 Harris1st wrote:
Seems like MVP will take this and will be the third Terran in the Top 4 Actually should the upper bracket be Inno-soO and Taeja-Nestea we would have 4 Terrans in top 4, such a missed opportunity. No worries, this isn't far what a Brood War poll would have looked like. It's doubtful a Protoss touches the top 4 and arguably 3 Terrans could occupy the top 3. It's so similar too because you have to eliminate arguably Zerg best Savior from consideration too. Top 10 arguably (and considerably in this order): Flash, NaDa, Oov, Jaedong, BoxeR, Bisu, FanTaSy, Stork, GoRush, EffOrtElo Peak Order: Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, FanTaSy, Oov, NaDa, Stork, GoRush, EffOrt, JangBi With the notable difference Terran dominated Brood War in terms of Starleague titles, whereas Premiers are distributed pretty evenly in Sc2(Protoss ahead by two if I remember correctly, out of 250+ tournaments); curiously, in Korean leagues only, Terran won a lot, almost like in BW but that's not really the case in international tournaments(winning only two BlizzCon and one IEM Katowice, for example). Yeah this really applies strictly to counting Korean only tournaments. Still is amazing how similar the histories look. Protoss having so many dragons in SC2, but none reaching god level like MVP, Inno, soO (or Life), Maru.
Yeah protoss probably has the most entries if you were to list the top 15-20 sc2 players of all time. Just none in the top 5. Although they've certainly reached those high levels, they haven't maintained it across the years.
Zest had the best year in korea out of anyone in 2014 (until Maru 2018). And he has one of the highest peaks of any player. sOs at a time was the most clutch player in the game, especially in proleague. Dear in his prime looked like the best player to touch the game (at that point anyway). You could make arguments for Rain, herO, even Classic as well.
I also think there's arguments to put Zest over Mvp, but that's not really worth talking about given how one-sided the poll already is.
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On July 16 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers... Also "retired" Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results). Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran. Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else. Still it's a close one for me.
Maru was not a GSL champion LOOOL. He was SSL and OSL champion. And in comparison of other players at that time he was second tier. Example Innovation, Taeja, Zest, Rain, Polt, Life, etc.
He lost regurarly against top zergs (soulkey, soo, etc) and top terrans.
If you dont like Maru example I can change it and we can say guminho (clearly second or third tier), stats and even Classic.
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On July 18 2019 05:21 TheAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:On July 16 2019 02:27 TheAnarchy wrote:
1.- Life.
2.- Innovation.
3.- MVP
4.-Taeja.
5.-Zest
After Life retired lvl went down a lot, now even foreigners defeat regularly koreans. Even Maru who was a second tier won 3 gsl.
SC2 decadent begun that year =(
Maru was a already a GSL and an SSL champ, proleague best terran and should have won IEM Tapei + he had 4 Korean tournament semi final as well as a blizzcon semi, all of it at 16 years old, if that's second tiers I don't know who's suppose to be first tiers... Also "retired" On July 16 2019 02:30 Acrofales wrote:On July 16 2019 01:08 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2019 18:05 Harris1st wrote:
Voted for Zest cause we need a Protoss in Top 4 :D I did to actually, I think Zest is the GOAT toss while mvp is my 3rd terran, and I feel like we are way to close to have 1-2-3 as T haha. This reasoning doesn't make sense. If the top 3 GOATs are Terrans then so be it. Personally, I think the top 3 GOATs are 2 terrans and a zerg (who shall not be named), but lacking that certain zerg, it's 3 terrans. I don't really see how you can make a case for Zest being greater than Mvp unless you put a huuuuuge value on longevity (even if it's longevity without top results). Well I think Zest is the person who was able to find the most success playing Starcraft as Protoss. While Mvp who had probably more success isn't the one who's the best at playing Starcraft as Terran. Sure both are playing Starcraft but they are playing very different version of it, I think beeing the greatest has to go to the one who played his version better than anyone else. Still it's a close one for me. Maru was not a GSL champion LOOOL. He was SSL and OSL champion. And in comparison of other players at that time he was second tier. Example Innovation, Taeja, Zest, Rain, Polt, Life, etc. He lost regurarly against top zergs (soulkey, soo, etc) and top terrans. If you dont like Maru example I can change it and we can say guminho (clearly second or third tier), stats and even Classic.
Yes he was a dual starleague champion already, Rain and Zest whom you mentioned managed to get only two starleague championships during their whole career.
Your can have whichever personal tier list you want but it takes a particular brand of crazy to believe that you opinion = fact.
In my opinion Maru was not second tier, he was first tier, any player that got two starleague championships is first tier, in my opinion.
You can argue with us however much you want, that doesn't make your opinion right. Can't even believe you mention Polt in this context, seems your tier list is basically your "favorite player" list because it makes absolutely 0 sense.
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EPT
