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On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic.
This event in no way erases Quantic's obligation to Hyun...This is just a charity event to help a player who needs this badly to keep his passion in gaming. Quantic isn't off the hook because Golden decided to continue to be awesome
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
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On January 02 2014 01:54 PPN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 01:15 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 01:12 Zealously wrote:On January 02 2014 01:08 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 01:04 DwD wrote:On January 02 2014 01:00 Serinox wrote:On January 02 2014 00:58 DwD wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. His situation suck and I feel bad for him but it's not like he is the only one in this kind of situation. The root of the problem needs to be taken care of before you start charity runs for 50 players and that is the contract. Does he not have one? I'm pretty sure he does... So what you would say is, that HyuN should retire and we just do nothing. Because we can't do anything about the contract and neither can HyuN. Why would he have to retire? Does retiring mean he gets his money back? First of I don't know why his winnings were deposited to his team manager and not him directly if his contract is worthless. I would never allow such a thing if I knew I couldn't bring the person to court. Second, wasn't there plenty of warnings about this Simon/Quantic situation? With so many warnings it's even more confusing why he would allow this to happen. Yes he would still be out of his salary but I'm pretty sure that's nothing compared to his winning amount. Anyway it's possible we are going too much offtopic here, I just wanted to highlight the other X amount of players this has happened to. If this becomes a trend to bail out players we are gonna have a charity run every week and yes I know donating is completely optional. "Oh Hyun got screwed over? Let's all donate to him instead of addressing the real problem!!!" Hey, irrational person here. Please tell me how we "address" the real problem which, most of the time, is players making deals with untrustworthy people. Do we force the players to only accept deals from teams we, as a community, trust? Or how do you propose we "fix" the issue? Yes. If the Quantic/Massan incident was given bigger exposure and Quantic was put under more pressure, maybe Hyun would have woken the fuck up and said "Hmmm, Massan is getting fucked by Quantic. I haven't received any money from them. Maybe I should say something." Instead, he waited for 3 months after Simon had a chance to take all the money and disappear. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Massan incident took place, then Hyun immediately spoke up and said he hadn't been paid? Giant SC2 shitstorm. Quantic under severe scrutiny. But instead, the OP of that thread gets edited to make Quantic look like a fine organization that had a small misunderstanding and it all gets swept under the rug. (Critically, the Skype conversation between Massan and Simon was deleted, which was the biggest piece of evidence for Simon's unprofessional and shady conduct.) I even tried to contact Locodoco (Quantic LoL player) when Quantic's LoL team was formed to tell him not to trust Simon. Funnily enough, Quantic didn't even qualify for LCS, so it ended up being fine for him. Then Quantic might have died earlier and another Quantic case would happen anyway in the future. You're both missing the big and the small picture: - the system needs more rules and organisations to control -> better contract? players' union? many ideas suggested but it will take a lot of time and competent people - some people want Hyun to stay in the scene -> this donation In the mean time the community could/should be firing shots at Quantic and taking actions against the owner but it just doesn't have the mean to do anything directly (yet?). Do you know the terms of Hyun's contract? Do you know how much hiring a lawyer and a translator for Hyun would cost? Do you know where Quantic's owner is? What if he can't pay? Go ask and see for yourself if you get an answer if you're so infuriated by the situation and think you can handle the case. I sure don't. Most of us are powerless for now. Some are doing what they can in the mean time. Deal with it. You're the one who needs to wake up. This is not an ideal world where taking people to court/waving your hands while talking big principles and putting people on the spot will instantly solve issues or turn bad/uneducated/immature people into good one.
This isn't even about legal proceedings. This should have been dealt with before Simon had a chance to disappear. Now he is completely free. It's the fault of the community for letting Quantic go right after the Massan incident. Not being critical enough of Quantic Simon's actions/history.
The community is too SOFT and NAIVE. Right after Simon payed Massan back, everything went back to normal. Quantic was viewed as an upstanding organization.
Edit: Yes I am talking about the microscopic scale. On the macroscopic scale, yes a player union/organization needs to be formed. I agree completely. But that is unrealistic as of right now.
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On January 02 2014 01:56 HeeroFX wrote:
No but I got a real degree so I could support myself instead of play a video game. We make choices in life and some people are meant to die, some are meant to live.
W-what? Did you just belittle progamers on a gaming forum?
Why are you even here?
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On January 02 2014 01:59 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 01:54 PPN wrote:On January 02 2014 01:15 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 01:12 Zealously wrote:On January 02 2014 01:08 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 01:04 DwD wrote:On January 02 2014 01:00 Serinox wrote:On January 02 2014 00:58 DwD wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. His situation suck and I feel bad for him but it's not like he is the only one in this kind of situation. The root of the problem needs to be taken care of before you start charity runs for 50 players and that is the contract. Does he not have one? I'm pretty sure he does... So what you would say is, that HyuN should retire and we just do nothing. Because we can't do anything about the contract and neither can HyuN. Why would he have to retire? Does retiring mean he gets his money back? First of I don't know why his winnings were deposited to his team manager and not him directly if his contract is worthless. I would never allow such a thing if I knew I couldn't bring the person to court. Second, wasn't there plenty of warnings about this Simon/Quantic situation? With so many warnings it's even more confusing why he would allow this to happen. Yes he would still be out of his salary but I'm pretty sure that's nothing compared to his winning amount. Anyway it's possible we are going too much offtopic here, I just wanted to highlight the other X amount of players this has happened to. If this becomes a trend to bail out players we are gonna have a charity run every week and yes I know donating is completely optional. "Oh Hyun got screwed over? Let's all donate to him instead of addressing the real problem!!!" Hey, irrational person here. Please tell me how we "address" the real problem which, most of the time, is players making deals with untrustworthy people. Do we force the players to only accept deals from teams we, as a community, trust? Or how do you propose we "fix" the issue? Yes. If the Quantic/Massan incident was given bigger exposure and Quantic was put under more pressure, maybe Hyun would have woken the fuck up and said "Hmmm, Massan is getting fucked by Quantic. I haven't received any money from them. Maybe I should say something." Instead, he waited for 3 months after Simon had a chance to take all the money and disappear. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Massan incident took place, then Hyun immediately spoke up and said he hadn't been paid? Giant SC2 shitstorm. Quantic under severe scrutiny. But instead, the OP of that thread gets edited to make Quantic look like a fine organization that had a small misunderstanding and it all gets swept under the rug. (Critically, the Skype conversation between Massan and Simon was deleted, which was the biggest piece of evidence for Simon's unprofessional and shady conduct.) I even tried to contact Locodoco (Quantic LoL player) when Quantic's LoL team was formed to tell him not to trust Simon. Funnily enough, Quantic didn't even qualify for LCS, so it ended up being fine for him. Then Quantic might have died earlier and another Quantic case would happen anyway in the future. You're both missing the big and the small picture: - the system needs more rules and organisations to control -> better contract? players' union? many ideas suggested but it will take a lot of time and competent people - some people want Hyun to stay in the scene -> this donation In the mean time the community could/should be firing shots at Quantic and taking actions against the owner but it just doesn't have the mean to do anything directly (yet?). Do you know the terms of Hyun's contract? Do you know how much hiring a lawyer and a translator for Hyun would cost? Do you know where Quantic's owner is? What if he can't pay? Go ask and see for yourself if you get an answer if you're so infuriated by the situation and think you can handle the case. I sure don't. Most of us are powerless for now. Some are doing what they can in the mean time. Deal with it. You're the one who needs to wake up. This is not an ideal world where taking people to court/waving your hands while talking big principles and putting people on the spot will instantly solve issues or turn bad/uneducated/immature people into good one. This isn't even about legal proceedings. This should have been dealt with before Simon had a chance to disappear. Now he is completely free. It's the fault of the community for letting Quantic go right after the Massan incident. Not being critical enough of Quantic Simon's actions/history. The community is too SOFT and NAIVE. Right after Simon payed Massan back, everything went back to normal. Quantic was viewed as an upstanding organization. Edit: Yes I am talking about the microscopic scale. On the macroscopic scale, yes a player union/organization needs to be formed. I agree completely. But that is unrealistic as of right now.
Man until the player's union thing I thought I was reading an article on FOX News. You seem to be overestimating what a bunch of angry people on TL can do about the fact that Quantic is a shady organization. Not everyone thought they were "upstanding" but the vast majority of people on this site don't have connections or channels through which to contact a player/team/organization directly. While we would all love to see Simon found and made to pay everything that is owed and then be unceremoniously be booted from esports forever most of that work needs to be done by the Quantic organization and Hyun himself. In the meantime, the community will do what it CAN do to help, which in this case is having a small, fun event designed to show a few good SC2 games with enjoyable casts as well as donating whatever they deem appropriate to Hyun.
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Does anyone know if the police has been contacted, I mean this is clearly theft/fraud and that is a substantial amount of money.
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On January 02 2014 01:08 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 01:04 DwD wrote:On January 02 2014 01:00 Serinox wrote:On January 02 2014 00:58 DwD wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. His situation suck and I feel bad for him but it's not like he is the only one in this kind of situation. The root of the problem needs to be taken care of before you start charity runs for 50 players and that is the contract. Does he not have one? I'm pretty sure he does... So what you would say is, that HyuN should retire and we just do nothing. Because we can't do anything about the contract and neither can HyuN. Why would he have to retire? Does retiring mean he gets his money back? First of I don't know why his winnings were deposited to his team manager and not him directly if his contract is worthless. I would never allow such a thing if I knew I couldn't bring the person to court. Second, wasn't there plenty of warnings about this Simon/Quantic situation? With so many warnings it's even more confusing why he would allow this to happen. Yes he would still be out of his salary but I'm pretty sure that's nothing compared to his winning amount. Anyway it's possible we are going too much offtopic here, I just wanted to highlight the other X amount of players this has happened to. If this becomes a trend to bail out players we are gonna have a charity run every week and yes I know donating is completely optional. The SC2 community apparently does not like to think ahead for the future. They just do things based on emotion. Very few rational minds here. "Oh Hyun got screwed over? Let's all donate to him instead of addressing the real problem!!!" The players need to be smarter with their decision on teams. The community needs to be harder on teams that run scams. Quantic should have been destroyed a while ago. It blows my mind that Quantic was able to exist for so long.
While I agree that Quantic should have not been trusted for a long time, you're the one adding the "instead". Helping Hyun does not mean anyone endorse what happened and/or is disallowed to think about a solution to the core issue at the same time.
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On January 02 2014 01:59 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 01:54 PPN wrote:On January 02 2014 01:15 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 01:12 Zealously wrote:On January 02 2014 01:08 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 01:04 DwD wrote:On January 02 2014 01:00 Serinox wrote:On January 02 2014 00:58 DwD wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. His situation suck and I feel bad for him but it's not like he is the only one in this kind of situation. The root of the problem needs to be taken care of before you start charity runs for 50 players and that is the contract. Does he not have one? I'm pretty sure he does... So what you would say is, that HyuN should retire and we just do nothing. Because we can't do anything about the contract and neither can HyuN. Why would he have to retire? Does retiring mean he gets his money back? First of I don't know why his winnings were deposited to his team manager and not him directly if his contract is worthless. I would never allow such a thing if I knew I couldn't bring the person to court. Second, wasn't there plenty of warnings about this Simon/Quantic situation? With so many warnings it's even more confusing why he would allow this to happen. Yes he would still be out of his salary but I'm pretty sure that's nothing compared to his winning amount. Anyway it's possible we are going too much offtopic here, I just wanted to highlight the other X amount of players this has happened to. If this becomes a trend to bail out players we are gonna have a charity run every week and yes I know donating is completely optional. "Oh Hyun got screwed over? Let's all donate to him instead of addressing the real problem!!!" Hey, irrational person here. Please tell me how we "address" the real problem which, most of the time, is players making deals with untrustworthy people. Do we force the players to only accept deals from teams we, as a community, trust? Or how do you propose we "fix" the issue? Yes. If the Quantic/Massan incident was given bigger exposure and Quantic was put under more pressure, maybe Hyun would have woken the fuck up and said "Hmmm, Massan is getting fucked by Quantic. I haven't received any money from them. Maybe I should say something." Instead, he waited for 3 months after Simon had a chance to take all the money and disappear. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Massan incident took place, then Hyun immediately spoke up and said he hadn't been paid? Giant SC2 shitstorm. Quantic under severe scrutiny. But instead, the OP of that thread gets edited to make Quantic look like a fine organization that had a small misunderstanding and it all gets swept under the rug. (Critically, the Skype conversation between Massan and Simon was deleted, which was the biggest piece of evidence for Simon's unprofessional and shady conduct.) I even tried to contact Locodoco (Quantic LoL player) when Quantic's LoL team was formed to tell him not to trust Simon. Funnily enough, Quantic didn't even qualify for LCS, so it ended up being fine for him. Then Quantic might have died earlier and another Quantic case would happen anyway in the future. You're both missing the big and the small picture: - the system needs more rules and organisations to control -> better contract? players' union? many ideas suggested but it will take a lot of time and competent people - some people want Hyun to stay in the scene -> this donation In the mean time the community could/should be firing shots at Quantic and taking actions against the owner but it just doesn't have the mean to do anything directly (yet?). Do you know the terms of Hyun's contract? Do you know how much hiring a lawyer and a translator for Hyun would cost? Do you know where Quantic's owner is? What if he can't pay? Go ask and see for yourself if you get an answer if you're so infuriated by the situation and think you can handle the case. I sure don't. Most of us are powerless for now. Some are doing what they can in the mean time. Deal with it. You're the one who needs to wake up. This is not an ideal world where taking people to court/waving your hands while talking big principles and putting people on the spot will instantly solve issues or turn bad/uneducated/immature people into good one. This isn't even about legal proceedings. This should have been dealt with before Simon had a chance to disappear. Now he is completely free. It's the fault of the community for letting Quantic go right after the Massan incident. Not being critical enough of Quantic Simon's actions/history. The community is too SOFT and NAIVE. Right after Simon payed Massan back, everything went back to normal. Quantic was viewed as an upstanding organization. Edit: Yes I am talking about the microscopic scale. On the macroscopic scale, yes a player union/organization needs to be formed. I agree completely. But that is unrealistic as of right now.
Soft maybe, naive I don't think so. It may actually just be a sign of how conscious the community is about the fact that it cannot truly do anything and it's up to the profesionnals involved directly in the matter to address the issues. After the MasSan incident, we could all have been angry at Quantic, boycott their streams/goodies/events, telling the sponsors or the players to move on. We might have been able to "kill" Quantic earlier and then? With one less scumbag and potentially many more to take its place, would the situation be really that different from now?
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Sounds like a great time!
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I don't know why you are even wasting your time answering people who think that helping a player in difficulty is bad because it means we are forgiving Quantic or Hyun's "naivety". Probably just some 14 years old attention whores.
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Hyun and Golden casting is great ! Also golden is an amazing person <3
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On January 02 2014 02:36 KingAlphard wrote:
I don't know why you are even wasting your time answering people who think that helping a player in difficulty is bad because it means we are forgiving Quantic or Hyun's "naivety". Probably just some 14 years old attention whores.
You should check your reading comprehension if you think that's what we're saying. Your location says Italy so I will forgive you since English is probably not your native tongue.
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lets show what this community is made of!
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Brb, giving my life savings to Hyun and Golden <3
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Great Idea, you are the man Golden.
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China6330 Posts
On January 02 2014 00:58 DwD wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. His situation suck and I feel bad for him but it's not like he is the only one in this kind of situation. The root of the problem needs to be taken care of before you start charity runs for 50 players and that is the contract. Does he not have one? I'm pretty sure he does...
You are basically saying "let's don't help him and let him rot", what's the problem with these people? "There are more problems out there so let's don't fix this one while we can". Cool.
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On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic.
Why can't you do both?
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On January 02 2014 03:18 SebaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Why can't you do both?
I think many people aren't annoyed that this even for Hyun is going down per se. They just see it as relatively unimportant, that not enough attention (if any) is being focused on stopping things like this from continuing to happen.
Which begs the question: Is there anything the SC2 community can do to prevent stuff like this from happening?
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A golden opportunity to tune in and see some unity in this community. I just hope this leads to some continuity because truthfully this ingenuity leaves me with feelings of contiguity!
*Sorry, it's been a long day, lol*
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EPT
