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[OSL] Grand Finals WCS Korea Season 2 2013 - Page 206

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Read this before posting.
Jevity
Profile Joined August 2012
United States67 Posts
August 10 2013 13:32 GMT
#4101
On August 10 2013 21:25 xyzz wrote:
Show nested quote +
Its a much, much more complex and diverse game. I really would know where to start explaining it, but mechanically its leaps and bounds ahead.

Dota 2 and the community is an absolute joke when blatant exploits like in Na'Vi vs. TongFu game 3 are considered acceptable and a viable strategy. Two low level heroes being able to one shot a max level carry with full items and Aegis is considered allright and even cool. It's a community where taking advantage of every bug or design failure is considered an achievement and a merit. Na'Vi have actually perfected the use of the bug exploit with their timings and the way the entire team starts pre-emptively falling back when they're trying it so that they don't get jumped on 5v4. I'm sure a lot of people started playing Dota 2 after seeing last night's games at TI3, but likewise a lot of people were completely turned off from the game as a whole. I found it disgusting.

The balance in Starcraft 2 might be poor and it has all sorts of issues with volatility but atleast the wins are honest and even the dumbest cheese rushes both have a very high chance of failure and most importantly aren't based on bugged game design. We don't have threads discussing whether Maru beat Rain by cheating.


I don't think you should compare the 2 games like that. The direction in their development and take on balance are entirely different. In Starcraft, there is an attempt at creating three balanced races.

In Dota, I'm pretty sure Icefrog said something along these lines, the beauty of the game is its imbalance. It creates so many elements of strategy, mindgames, and teamwork at each stage of the game.
Shame is a silly emotion. Don't succumb to it. - Artosis
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
August 10 2013 13:33 GMT
#4102
ARTOSIS!
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
DustbinBieber
Profile Joined April 2013
France276 Posts
August 10 2013 13:38 GMT
#4103
On August 10 2013 22:32 Jevity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 21:25 xyzz wrote:
Its a much, much more complex and diverse game. I really would know where to start explaining it, but mechanically its leaps and bounds ahead.

Dota 2 and the community is an absolute joke when blatant exploits like in Na'Vi vs. TongFu game 3 are considered acceptable and a viable strategy. Two low level heroes being able to one shot a max level carry with full items and Aegis is considered allright and even cool. It's a community where taking advantage of every bug or design failure is considered an achievement and a merit. Na'Vi have actually perfected the use of the bug exploit with their timings and the way the entire team starts pre-emptively falling back when they're trying it so that they don't get jumped on 5v4. I'm sure a lot of people started playing Dota 2 after seeing last night's games at TI3, but likewise a lot of people were completely turned off from the game as a whole. I found it disgusting.

The balance in Starcraft 2 might be poor and it has all sorts of issues with volatility but atleast the wins are honest and even the dumbest cheese rushes both have a very high chance of failure and most importantly aren't based on bugged game design. We don't have threads discussing whether Maru beat Rain by cheating.


I don't think you should compare the 2 games like that. The direction in their development and take on balance are entirely different. In Starcraft, there is an attempt at creating three balanced races.

In Dota, I'm pretty sure Icefrog said something along these lines, the beauty of the game is its imbalance. It creates so many elements of strategy, mindgames, and teamwork at each stage of the game.


That's cause Icefrog knows his shit.
BW was severely imbalanced and is still to this day the most marvelous videogame that's ever been played competitively.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-10 14:16:05
August 10 2013 13:56 GMT
#4104
TL Power Rank looks really good right now.

Anyways, for those of you that missed the action here is a screen from the last game:

[image loading]



At this point Maru had become Optimus, and it was over. The Elephant Slayer won.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
August 10 2013 14:08 GMT
#4105
Congrats to Maru but sucks that prime will take a significant portion of the prizemoney
Yhamm is the god of predictions
heartlxp
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1258 Posts
August 10 2013 14:10 GMT
#4106
On August 10 2013 22:31 Zealously wrote:
I always wonder where the KeSPA chatterboxes go when things don't go as planned


ESF for life!!!!

WP Congrats to Maru, hope he becomes the next flash gogogogoo
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8255 Posts
August 10 2013 14:17 GMT
#4107
On August 10 2013 23:08 Scarecrow wrote:
Congrats to Maru but sucks that prime will take a significant portion of the prizemoney

Source?
tuoli9
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland211 Posts
August 10 2013 14:42 GMT
#4108
There are no vods of this that aren't behind a paywall? I have to see these games!
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-10 14:52:05
August 10 2013 14:51 GMT
#4109
On August 10 2013 22:38 DustbinBieber wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 22:32 Jevity wrote:
On August 10 2013 21:25 xyzz wrote:
Its a much, much more complex and diverse game. I really would know where to start explaining it, but mechanically its leaps and bounds ahead.

Dota 2 and the community is an absolute joke when blatant exploits like in Na'Vi vs. TongFu game 3 are considered acceptable and a viable strategy. Two low level heroes being able to one shot a max level carry with full items and Aegis is considered allright and even cool. It's a community where taking advantage of every bug or design failure is considered an achievement and a merit. Na'Vi have actually perfected the use of the bug exploit with their timings and the way the entire team starts pre-emptively falling back when they're trying it so that they don't get jumped on 5v4. I'm sure a lot of people started playing Dota 2 after seeing last night's games at TI3, but likewise a lot of people were completely turned off from the game as a whole. I found it disgusting.

The balance in Starcraft 2 might be poor and it has all sorts of issues with volatility but atleast the wins are honest and even the dumbest cheese rushes both have a very high chance of failure and most importantly aren't based on bugged game design. We don't have threads discussing whether Maru beat Rain by cheating.


I don't think you should compare the 2 games like that. The direction in their development and take on balance are entirely different. In Starcraft, there is an attempt at creating three balanced races.

In Dota, I'm pretty sure Icefrog said something along these lines, the beauty of the game is its imbalance. It creates so many elements of strategy, mindgames, and teamwork at each stage of the game.


That's cause Icefrog knows his shit.
BW was severely imbalanced and is still to this day the most marvelous videogame that's ever been played competitively.


I don't see any beauty when you play superior, feel like that and then lose because of your enemy abusing imbalances. and I played Broodwar for 5-6years on a decent level (with some race switches during that time), and never felt it was unbalanced. There were some stupid maps, but that was all.
masterbreti
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)2711 Posts
August 10 2013 14:52 GMT
#4110
On August 10 2013 23:17 geokilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 23:08 Scarecrow wrote:
Congrats to Maru but sucks that prime will take a significant portion of the prizemoney

Source?


Prime is well known for taking the prizemoney of its players in order to stay afloat. Thats the only reason they are still around.
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
August 10 2013 14:54 GMT
#4111
the whole series is worth watching tbh.
(>'.')>
juvenal
Profile Joined July 2013
2448 Posts
August 10 2013 14:55 GMT
#4112
On August 10 2013 22:31 Zealously wrote:
I always wonder where the KeSPA chatterboxes go when things don't go as planned


somewhere around the place you go to when Life is getting owned in up\downs duh
Michael Probu
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
August 10 2013 14:57 GMT
#4113
On August 10 2013 22:31 Zealously wrote:
I always wonder where the KeSPA chatterboxes go when things don't go as planned


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423537&currentpage=29#570

And then nothing
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
August 10 2013 15:01 GMT
#4114
are there any vods yet?
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
pak150
Profile Joined September 2010
United States531 Posts
August 10 2013 15:06 GMT
#4115
Maru has absolutely obliterated my Liquibet this season!
slicknav
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
August 10 2013 15:09 GMT
#4116
On August 10 2013 23:42 tuoli9 wrote:
There are no vods of this that aren't behind a paywall? I have to see these games!


OSL VOD's aren't up yet. Not sure when that will happen though.
blah blah blah...
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-10 15:14:26
August 10 2013 15:14 GMT
#4117
On August 10 2013 23:51 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 22:38 DustbinBieber wrote:
On August 10 2013 22:32 Jevity wrote:
On August 10 2013 21:25 xyzz wrote:
Its a much, much more complex and diverse game. I really would know where to start explaining it, but mechanically its leaps and bounds ahead.

Dota 2 and the community is an absolute joke when blatant exploits like in Na'Vi vs. TongFu game 3 are considered acceptable and a viable strategy. Two low level heroes being able to one shot a max level carry with full items and Aegis is considered allright and even cool. It's a community where taking advantage of every bug or design failure is considered an achievement and a merit. Na'Vi have actually perfected the use of the bug exploit with their timings and the way the entire team starts pre-emptively falling back when they're trying it so that they don't get jumped on 5v4. I'm sure a lot of people started playing Dota 2 after seeing last night's games at TI3, but likewise a lot of people were completely turned off from the game as a whole. I found it disgusting.

The balance in Starcraft 2 might be poor and it has all sorts of issues with volatility but atleast the wins are honest and even the dumbest cheese rushes both have a very high chance of failure and most importantly aren't based on bugged game design. We don't have threads discussing whether Maru beat Rain by cheating.


I don't think you should compare the 2 games like that. The direction in their development and take on balance are entirely different. In Starcraft, there is an attempt at creating three balanced races.

In Dota, I'm pretty sure Icefrog said something along these lines, the beauty of the game is its imbalance. It creates so many elements of strategy, mindgames, and teamwork at each stage of the game.


That's cause Icefrog knows his shit.
BW was severely imbalanced and is still to this day the most marvelous videogame that's ever been played competitively.


I don't see any beauty when you play superior, feel like that and then lose because of your enemy abusing imbalances. and I played Broodwar for 5-6years on a decent level (with some race switches during that time), and never felt it was unbalanced. There were some stupid maps, but that was all.


I think BW wasn't so much imbalanced as it was volatile and required pinpoint mechanics to do anything effectively

Reaver drops can obliterate your entire scv line ... or do no damage
Lurkers can kill and entire group of marines, or do no damage
Siege tanks can obliterate entire 200/200 protoss armies, or get mine dragged to blow themselves up
Arbiters can recall entire armies into your base, or get EMPED and do no damage
100 supply goliaths can kill the entire carrier army .. or get kited to death by map imbalances

Granted SC2 has some of these elements, (banelings), but shit like colossi/force fields/etc. just make the game stale as hell.
griffith.583 (NA)
Arcanne
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1519 Posts
August 10 2013 15:16 GMT
#4118
Awesome I didn't know OSL was still running
Professional tech investor, part time DotA scrub | Follow @AllMeasures on Twitter
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
August 10 2013 15:45 GMT
#4119
Why are we talking about DOTA? Mean, I technically know why, but really though, why? Last night's games were awesome. Rain won the first two with super solid play, the Maru won the 3rd with a quick rush. Rain got rattled and engaged too soon in game four, probably still upset for losing to cheese. Game five comes around and Maru goes 3cc standard play but Rain is too upset to focus and tries to cheese with a immortal all in; he sucks at cheese and forgets to make sentries--so he loses.

Rain got so rattled by a 2Rax that he lost focus and stopped playing defensive, got too emotional. He began to unravel. Game six happened and it was like watching an OSL ace match all over again. Rain succumbed.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 10 2013 15:59 GMT
#4120
wow just wow. I mean ya, I figured that Maru had just as much of a shot at winning as Rain but hearing that Rain forfeited 4 games straight and screwed up is 5th game cheese is cringe worthy. Did he really get emotional?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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