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On July 23 2013 21:00 massivez wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:56 bo1b wrote:On July 23 2013 20:53 robson1 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:50 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:44 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 20:37 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 robson1 wrote:
[quote]
3 cc 26 supply into double upgrades. Not to greedy. No it's not. Deal with it. haha oh lord  Yeah, indeed... I don't know if they are trolling us or they actually believe that. Or we understand something that you don't? If 3 CC into double Ebay is un-punishable, admit that something is wrong with the game. But that isn't true, and we will see in the fnext few games  Why? Why do people think everything should be "punishable"? There would be a problem if, for instance, Terran could punish a fast third while Zerg couldn't. As it stands now, neither side can really punish a fast third, so where's the problem? On July 23 2013 20:44 Emzeeshady wrote:
3 cc double ups just straight up loses to a roach bane bust... No. You can defend. It's extremely forgiving so you fall behind or instantly lose at the first misstep but you can definitely defend it. You think Terrans are stupid and keep playing as a standard something which would lose 100% of the time to that attack? Standard Terran macro builds are forced to take into account the threat of Roach/Baneling busts since they exist; in WoL you played Hellions/Banshees to handle that, in HotS Mines coupled with excellent control allow you to skip the Starport and get earlier third and upgrades. Because it leads to turtle fests, 15 minutes no rush games. I know you're good at the game, but I still disagree with you're standpoint on this. Terrans quick 3cc build is entirely dependent on moving out on the map at like 10-12 minutes, right around the time your taking a 3rd. Terrans take a third around 9.30 minutes, at that moment you almost saturated your third as a Zerg. But it depends alot on larva en good engagements to handle the first push.
Whoops I should have said just after, I pretty much see others take there third and take my third at 10 depending on what race I play
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On July 23 2013 21:00 opterown wrote:http://nios.kr/sc2/kr/1v1/hots/ wow i'm genuinely surprised so few terrans at the top like 4 in top 30 or something at a glance
To be fair, a lot of the top players may not train using ladder, particularly given that lots of the top terrans are KeSPa players who, iirc, are more used to training vs specific practice partners and thus wouldn't spend as much time training on ladder.
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On July 23 2013 20:56 Green_25 wrote:
Why don't the balance whiners save it for the end of this series? Soulkey could still come back imo
I understand why zergs are upset, but seriously chill
I seriously can't see why they are upset. Zergs have great representation in all major tournaments, they often end up in finals, even ZvZ finals, they won 5 of 7 last GSL championships and they also have stronger representation and 1st place results in lower level tournaments like ZOTAC etc.
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Finally back online. Who's leading this game?
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On July 23 2013 21:02 Yonnua wrote:To be fair, a lot of the top players may not train using ladder, particularly given that lots of the top terrans are KeSPa players who, iirc, are more used to training vs specific practice partners and thus wouldn't spend as much time training on ladder.
So you believe most of the top Zergs and Protoss are ESF? I believe its even if not favored towards KeSPa so that would mean they'd play equally lots of custom games compared to ladder. I also believe INnoVation said he is training on ladder.
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Austria24420 Posts
On July 23 2013 21:00 opterown wrote:http://nios.kr/sc2/kr/1v1/hots/ wow i'm genuinely surprised so few terrans at the top like 4 in top 30 or something at a glance
Who could that one Taiwanese zerg possibly be? lol
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On July 23 2013 21:03 AgentW wrote:
Finally back online. Who's leading this game?
none yet
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On July 23 2013 21:03 AgentW wrote:
Finally back online. Who's leading this game?
innovation 2-0 atm
Edit: derp, about the specific game, innovation in the lead for being a better robot :D
Edit2: nvm, bad joke.
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On July 23 2013 21:03 AgentW wrote:
Finally back online. Who's leading this game?
Too early to tell
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On July 23 2013 21:02 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:56 Green_25 wrote:
Why don't the balance whiners save it for the end of this series? Soulkey could still come back imo
I understand why zergs are upset, but seriously chill I seriously can't see why they are upset. Zergs have great representation in all major tournaments, they often end up in finals, even ZvZ finals, they won 5 of 7 last GSL championships and they also have stronger representation and 1st place results in lower level tournaments like ZOTAC etc.
Have you seen that recent thread recently asking which race has been most vocal with complaints and balance whine?
Zerg won by a landslide.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 23 2013 21:02 Yonnua wrote:To be fair, a lot of the top players may not train using ladder, particularly given that lots of the top terrans are KeSPa players who, iirc, are more used to training vs specific practice partners and thus wouldn't spend as much time training on ladder.
i expect at least a fair few do, though. STX, CJ, etc definitely ladder
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On July 23 2013 21:02 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:56 Green_25 wrote:
Why don't the balance whiners save it for the end of this series? Soulkey could still come back imo
I understand why zergs are upset, but seriously chill I seriously can't see why they are upset. Zergs have great representation in all major tournaments, they often end up in finals, even ZvZ finals, they won 5 of 7 last GSL championships and they also have stronger representation and 1st place results in lower level tournaments like ZOTAC etc.
I can.
They want to see someone beat Innovation. The man makes ZvT look hopeless if the Terran plays perfectly.
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On July 23 2013 21:02 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:56 Green_25 wrote:
Why don't the balance whiners save it for the end of this series? Soulkey could still come back imo
I understand why zergs are upset, but seriously chill I seriously can't see why they are upset. Zergs have great representation in all major tournaments, they often end up in finals, even ZvZ finals, they won 5 of 7 last GSL championships and they also have stronger representation and 1st place results in lower level tournaments like ZOTAC etc.
That's the wrong attitude for a zerg whiner!
What I just read is that zerg lost 2 of the last 7 GSL championships.
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On July 23 2013 21:00 Ketch wrote:Hey, there I saw the rock name bug again.. dont know if it is a bug though... It list the whole path name of the file of the rock on your system as the name of the rock. Anyone noticed this also right now or in game? Edit: screencap! + Show Spoiler +
Anyone?
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On July 23 2013 21:02 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:56 Green_25 wrote:
Why don't the balance whiners save it for the end of this series? Soulkey could still come back imo
I understand why zergs are upset, but seriously chill I seriously can't see why they are upset. Zergs have great representation in all major tournaments, they often end up in finals, even ZvZ finals, they won 5 of 7 last GSL championships and they also have stronger representation and 1st place results in lower level tournaments like ZOTAC etc.
Most balance whine comes from players who struggle in a certain matchup and attribute their failings to balance rather than accepting their own limitations. They get stuck in a mindset and apply balance to everything.
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Cute move using that medivac to scout
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On July 23 2013 20:59 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:52 ETisME wrote:On July 23 2013 20:50 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:44 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 20:37 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 robson1 wrote:
[quote]
3 cc 26 supply into double upgrades. Not to greedy. No it's not. Deal with it. haha oh lord Yeah, indeed... I don't know if they are trolling us or they actually believe that. Or we understand something that you don't? If 3 CC into double Ebay is un-punishable, admit that something is wrong with the game. But that isn't true, and we will see in the fnext few games Why? Why do people think everything should be "punishable"? There would be a problem if, for instance, Terran could punish a fast third while Zerg couldn't. As it stands now, neither side can really punish a fast third, so where's the problem? On July 23 2013 20:44 Emzeeshady wrote:
3 cc double ups just straight up loses to a roach bane bust... No. You can defend. It's extremely forgiving so you fall behind or instantly lose at the first misstep but you can definitely defend it. You think Terrans are stupid and keep playing as a standard something which would lose 100% of the time to that attack? Standard Terran macro builds are forced to take into account the threat of Roach/Baneling busts since they exist; in WoL you played Hellions/Banshees to handle that, in HotS Mines coupled with excellent control allow you to skip the Starport and get earlier third and upgrades. yea but terran can punish a zerg for going a faster 4th though.... If zerg army is cost efficient against the bio mine, then fast 3rd vs fast 3rd argument might be more acceptable How? IdrA went 4-bases mutas against Polt on their Daybreak game from WCS America last season, Polt couldn't do anything particular to punish that... Cost-efficiency depends on micro from both sides; 2/2 lings/banes/mutas can actually handle 3/3 4M for a long time (see Bogus vs Solar on Whirlwind for instance, on the IEM KR Qualifier). I can reassure you that there are tonnes more games where zerg loses to the maxed upgraded bio mine than a zerg beating a terran with just 2/2 ling baneling mutas. (but of cause you can blame it on the micro, right?) and being able to grab a super fast 4th is only possible on some maps because rushing a 4th will just make it hard to defend against bio mine pushes and drops and that's the biggest problem of grabbing one
But you realize that Zergs don't have to take a super fast fourth—what do you even mean by that timing-wise anyway? Standard is 3-bases mutas, saturating the fourth a bit later. 4-bases mutas is an option, not something mandatory to keep up with triple OC.
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On July 23 2013 21:03 krutopatkin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:03 AgentW wrote:
Finally back online. Who's leading this game? none yet
On July 23 2013 21:03 Chr15t wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 21:03 AgentW wrote:
Finally back online. Who's leading this game? Too early to tell
Okay, thanks guys.
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Germany7411 Posts
On July 23 2013 21:02 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:58 Yello wrote:On July 23 2013 20:57 Yello wrote:Soulkey spawns in the bottom left Innovation spawns in the top right 0:00-4:00min CC first on the high ground for Innovation Hatch first into Gas, then Pool for Soulkey Rax and Reactor for Innovation no Drone-scout by Soulkey this game, SCV-scout by Innovation 4:00-6:00min Ling-Speed on the way for Soulkey Innovation takes his natural and starts Reactor and Factory 6:00-8:00min third base for Soulkey Innovation completes the wall at his natural before starting the 3rd CC Factory takes the Tech Lab and starts a Tank while the Rax gets the Reactor and starts Marines Hellions scout the third base of Soulkey 2 E-Bays on the way for Innovation Rax switches to Tech Lab again and starts Stim Factory builds another Reactor, 2 Barracks started
8:00-10:00min
Lair tech and +1 melee and armor on the way for Soulkey
Starport and 4th and 5th Rax for Innovation
Soulkey builds his Baneling Nest
Innovation moves takes his third base
Spire started for Soulkey
Baneling-Speed as well
10:00-12:00min
Widow-Mine production started for Innovation
+2 upgrades for both players
Innovation scouts Soulkey with a Medivac without units in it
Soulkey builds some Banelings and more Lings
4th base finished for Soulkey
Innovation moves out with Bio+Mines and denies some creep spread
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