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Regarding the racial distribution:
Looking at the top 32 of each qualifier day so far, it looks like the racial distribution is pretty even. There's no overabundance of Terran until ro8 or ro4.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_Europe/Qualifier/Premier
Not sure what that means, if it means anything. It's hard to get statistics for the rounds before ro32, simply because the ESL bracket page doesn't appear to show the players's race.
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On April 17 2013 09:25 RaZorwire wrote:Regarding the racial distribution: Looking at the top 32 of each qualifier day so far, it looks like the racial distribution is pretty even. There's no overabundance of Terran until ro8 or ro4. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_Europe/Qualifier/PremierNot sure what that means, if it means anything. It's hard to get statistics for the rounds before ro32, simply because the ESL bracket page doesn't appear to show the players's race.
Most important : No dominant race in top32 gsl code s eu
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France7248 Posts
On April 17 2013 09:25 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:14 Yhamm wrote:On April 17 2013 09:13 s3rp wrote:
If there's no challenger division this season where will the eliminated players from the prermier division go this season to try and get back into the premiere division ? I thought there was going to be qualfiers for challenger as well and actual challenger play this season as well . qualifier for challenger division will come later (probably in 7 or 10 days) I am a gold/plat procheeser and have 1 build to rule them all. Can i also try? #noobsfightin'!!
I don't know. They said nothing about the challenger qualifier I think so you will have to wait
you can try the last Premier qualifier tomorrow though
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On April 17 2013 09:31 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:25 govie wrote:On April 17 2013 09:14 Yhamm wrote:On April 17 2013 09:13 s3rp wrote:
If there's no challenger division this season where will the eliminated players from the prermier division go this season to try and get back into the premiere division ? I thought there was going to be qualfiers for challenger as well and actual challenger play this season as well . qualifier for challenger division will come later (probably in 7 or 10 days) I am a gold/plat procheeser and have 1 build to rule them all. Can i also try? #noobsfightin'!! I don't know. They said nothing about the challenger qualifier I think so you will have to wait you can try the last Premier qualifier tomorrow though
In a b01 u can go far with just 1 cheesecompisition for a 8 minute 1base push against every race
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On April 17 2013 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 08:58 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:52 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:15 FeyFey wrote:On April 17 2013 07:58 DeathProfessor wrote:
Feels great but 6 Terran of 6 and 6/6 Europeans?
Seriously this must be why I hear most complaining at lower levels of SC2, Terran seems quite dominant unless you can get a really really good player then for some odd inexplicable reason it does a polar shift, in Code S KR there are a majority Zerg now! So this is getting pretty bizarre. Like mentioned before the strong toss and zerg players got invited for EU already. So it was likely that Terrans will qualify. Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. ...I mean it's really clear to me, am I not getting through? Let's keep it in GSL, you invite all the code S protoss/zerg in a tourney, and then you do qualifiers between code A players. Noblesse and Center, good players, don't automatically become MVP and Flash, great players, just because great players weren't invited. You're basically saying that Noblesse and Center should be favored over the other code A players because the code S players were invited, which makes no sense. Starve's point is more interesting though. My point is the European/non-korean Terrans aren't/weren't as bad as their reputation may be. Now that their odds aren't as skewed anymore as by the end of WoL it's very likely that some of the will emerge as just as strong as their counterparts from Zerg/Toss . You might see it differently but Terran has become alot more competetive at the non-korean level again for whatever reason. And it great to see. Maybe they became better but i think they've been good before just had a disadvantage in WoL . Well WoL's end was zerg overpowered, not terran underpowered. Korean PvT was at least balanced, if not advantage terran. So your argument only works in the TvZ match-up, not in the TvP match-up.Also I like how 5-1-0 is "competitive" in your book, that's a solid euphemism, I'll keep it for later =)
Both Zerg and Toss in WoL allowed for more and sometimes bigger mistakes while still granting you a chance to win than Terran . I'm not saying terran was super UP in WoL. Because the Koreans still did well with it against other Koreans. On the slightly lower levels not so much.
If the Korean Terrans would be dominating as well we might have an issue but they're not.
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aaawwww yeeeaahh Strelok!! :D
take that haters and underminers
i was ssoooo annoyed to keep reading and hearing people severely underestimate Strelok as if he's some kind of joke
Strelok is no joke! Congrats!
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On April 17 2013 09:35 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:58 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:52 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:15 FeyFey wrote:On April 17 2013 07:58 DeathProfessor wrote:
Feels great but 6 Terran of 6 and 6/6 Europeans?
Seriously this must be why I hear most complaining at lower levels of SC2, Terran seems quite dominant unless you can get a really really good player then for some odd inexplicable reason it does a polar shift, in Code S KR there are a majority Zerg now! So this is getting pretty bizarre. Like mentioned before the strong toss and zerg players got invited for EU already. So it was likely that Terrans will qualify. Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. ...I mean it's really clear to me, am I not getting through? Let's keep it in GSL, you invite all the code S protoss/zerg in a tourney, and then you do qualifiers between code A players. Noblesse and Center, good players, don't automatically become MVP and Flash, great players, just because great players weren't invited. You're basically saying that Noblesse and Center should be favored over the other code A players because the code S players were invited, which makes no sense. Starve's point is more interesting though. My point is the European/non-korean Terrans aren't/weren't as bad as their reputation may be. Now that their odds aren't as skewed anymore as by the end of WoL it's very likely that some of the will emerge as just as strong as their counterparts from Zerg/Toss . You might see it differently but Terran has become alot more competetive at the non-korean level again for whatever reason. And it great to see. Maybe they became better but i think they've been good before just had a disadvantage in WoL . Well WoL's end was zerg overpowered, not terran underpowered. Korean PvT was at least balanced, if not advantage terran. So your argument only works in the TvZ match-up, not in the TvP match-up.Also I like how 5-1-0 is "competitive" in your book, that's a solid euphemism, I'll keep it for later =) Both Zerg and Toss in WoL allowed for more and sometimes bigger mistakes while still granting you a chance to win than Terran . I'm not saying terran was super UP in WoL. Because the Koreans still did well with it against other Koreans. On the slightly lower levels not so much. If the Korean Terrans would be dominating as well we might have an issue but they're not.
Terran was legitimately overpowered though too, for a long time actually and yet no EU Terran's ever really did anything with it. Thorzain won TSL and that was basically the only thing an EU Terran did in that whole time Terran was overpowered.
There's more to it than just Terran being the weaker race but I don't know what.
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On April 17 2013 10:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:35 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:58 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:52 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:15 FeyFey wrote:
[quote]
Like mentioned before the strong toss and zerg players got invited for EU already. So it was likely that Terrans will qualify. Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. ...I mean it's really clear to me, am I not getting through? Let's keep it in GSL, you invite all the code S protoss/zerg in a tourney, and then you do qualifiers between code A players. Noblesse and Center, good players, don't automatically become MVP and Flash, great players, just because great players weren't invited. You're basically saying that Noblesse and Center should be favored over the other code A players because the code S players were invited, which makes no sense. Starve's point is more interesting though. My point is the European/non-korean Terrans aren't/weren't as bad as their reputation may be. Now that their odds aren't as skewed anymore as by the end of WoL it's very likely that some of the will emerge as just as strong as their counterparts from Zerg/Toss . You might see it differently but Terran has become alot more competetive at the non-korean level again for whatever reason. And it great to see. Maybe they became better but i think they've been good before just had a disadvantage in WoL . Well WoL's end was zerg overpowered, not terran underpowered. Korean PvT was at least balanced, if not advantage terran. So your argument only works in the TvZ match-up, not in the TvP match-up.Also I like how 5-1-0 is "competitive" in your book, that's a solid euphemism, I'll keep it for later =) Both Zerg and Toss in WoL allowed for more and sometimes bigger mistakes while still granting you a chance to win than Terran . I'm not saying terran was super UP in WoL. Because the Koreans still did well with it against other Koreans. On the slightly lower levels not so much. If the Korean Terrans would be dominating as well we might have an issue but they're not. Terran was legitimately overpowered though too, for a long time actually and yet no EU Terran's ever really did anything with it. Thorzain won TSL and that was basically the only thing an EU Terran did in that whole time Terran was overpowered. There's more to it than just Terran being the weaker race but I don't know what.
When Terran was strong 2010 and 2011 there had been plenty of European Terran winning tournaments besides Thorzain. Naama who won the first Dreamhack , Sjow won a big IEM and there's quite a few more.
Just look through the results of 2010 and 2011 . You'll find plenty of European Terran placing well. It just stopped at some point. Seriously at the earlier stages of WoL Europe was actually dominated by Terran , people just don't seem to remember that.
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On April 17 2013 11:04 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:15 FeyFey wrote:On April 17 2013 07:58 DeathProfessor wrote:
Feels great but 6 Terran of 6 and 6/6 Europeans?
Seriously this must be why I hear most complaining at lower levels of SC2, Terran seems quite dominant unless you can get a really really good player then for some odd inexplicable reason it does a polar shift, in Code S KR there are a majority Zerg now! So this is getting pretty bizarre. Like mentioned before the strong toss and zerg players got invited for EU already. So it was likely that Terrans will qualify. Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. They are
Thats where i disagree. It's not even that i think they're that great. I just don't believe their counterparts of Zerg/Toss are that much better as the results made them seem to be . At least not when i watched the games because their games are just as mistake filled as the ones the Terrans play . Most of the mistakes were just not that impactful .
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On April 17 2013 11:28 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 11:10 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 11:04 Emzeeshady wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:15 FeyFey wrote:On April 17 2013 07:58 DeathProfessor wrote:
Feels great but 6 Terran of 6 and 6/6 Europeans?
Seriously this must be why I hear most complaining at lower levels of SC2, Terran seems quite dominant unless you can get a really really good player then for some odd inexplicable reason it does a polar shift, in Code S KR there are a majority Zerg now! So this is getting pretty bizarre. Like mentioned before the strong toss and zerg players got invited for EU already. So it was likely that Terrans will qualify. Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. They are Thats where i disagree. It's not even that i think they're that great. I just don't believe their counterparts of Zerg/Toss are that much better as the results made them seem to be . At least not when i watched the games because their games are just as mistake filled as the ones the Terrans play . Most of the mistakes were just not that impactful . Even when Terran was the best race foreigner Zergs and Toss players had success. When Terran struggled there was no one and I mean no foreign Terran that was winning anything. It isn't unreasonable to think foreign Terrans are not as good.
Then clearly the tables are turned now and zerg and protoss players are not as good as terrans.
Why should we make changes to the game if the problem lies with people playing it?
With that logic you can justify any imbalance.
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where the heck are the interviews, why no one make some ????
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On April 17 2013 09:31 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:25 govie wrote:On April 17 2013 09:14 Yhamm wrote:On April 17 2013 09:13 s3rp wrote:
If there's no challenger division this season where will the eliminated players from the prermier division go this season to try and get back into the premiere division ? I thought there was going to be qualfiers for challenger as well and actual challenger play this season as well . qualifier for challenger division will come later (probably in 7 or 10 days) I am a gold/plat procheeser and have 1 build to rule them all. Can i also try? #noobsfightin'!! I don't know. They said nothing about the challenger qualifier I think so you will have to wait you can try the last Premier qualifier tomorrow though
This qualifier will have double the amount of slots compared to yesterday, I wonder whether they manage to fill it all up.
I would've said no, given this is a weekday, but even yesterday there were apparently like 900+ signups, it's insane...
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On April 17 2013 10:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:35 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:58 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:52 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:15 FeyFey wrote:
[quote]
Like mentioned before the strong toss and zerg players got invited for EU already. So it was likely that Terrans will qualify. Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. ...I mean it's really clear to me, am I not getting through? Let's keep it in GSL, you invite all the code S protoss/zerg in a tourney, and then you do qualifiers between code A players. Noblesse and Center, good players, don't automatically become MVP and Flash, great players, just because great players weren't invited. You're basically saying that Noblesse and Center should be favored over the other code A players because the code S players were invited, which makes no sense. Starve's point is more interesting though. My point is the European/non-korean Terrans aren't/weren't as bad as their reputation may be. Now that their odds aren't as skewed anymore as by the end of WoL it's very likely that some of the will emerge as just as strong as their counterparts from Zerg/Toss . You might see it differently but Terran has become alot more competetive at the non-korean level again for whatever reason. And it great to see. Maybe they became better but i think they've been good before just had a disadvantage in WoL . Well WoL's end was zerg overpowered, not terran underpowered. Korean PvT was at least balanced, if not advantage terran. So your argument only works in the TvZ match-up, not in the TvP match-up.Also I like how 5-1-0 is "competitive" in your book, that's a solid euphemism, I'll keep it for later =) Both Zerg and Toss in WoL allowed for more and sometimes bigger mistakes while still granting you a chance to win than Terran . I'm not saying terran was super UP in WoL. Because the Koreans still did well with it against other Koreans. On the slightly lower levels not so much. If the Korean Terrans would be dominating as well we might have an issue but they're not. Terran was legitimately overpowered though too, for a long time actually and yet no EU Terran's ever really did anything with it. Thorzain won TSL and that was basically the only thing an EU Terran did in that whole time Terran was overpowered. There's more to it than just Terran being the weaker race but I don't know what.
5-rax reaper, MorroW
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On April 17 2013 16:43 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 09:31 Yhamm wrote:On April 17 2013 09:25 govie wrote:On April 17 2013 09:14 Yhamm wrote:On April 17 2013 09:13 s3rp wrote:
If there's no challenger division this season where will the eliminated players from the prermier division go this season to try and get back into the premiere division ? I thought there was going to be qualfiers for challenger as well and actual challenger play this season as well . qualifier for challenger division will come later (probably in 7 or 10 days) I am a gold/plat procheeser and have 1 build to rule them all. Can i also try? #noobsfightin'!! I don't know. They said nothing about the challenger qualifier I think so you will have to wait you can try the last Premier qualifier tomorrow though This qualifier will have double the amount of slots compared to yesterday, I wonder whether they manage to fill it all up. I would've said no, given this is a weekday, but even yesterday there were apparently like 900+ signups, it's insane...
From what I saw, there were more than 1200 players signed up. I doubt they would have all checked in, but I guess we can expect a full 1024-bracket with a few additional matches in the 2048-bracket. I even think about signing up myself if this would just not be that early in the evening.
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Oh XlorD. SO CLOSE! Come on bro, do me a favor and win the damn thing!
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On April 17 2013 11:08 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 10:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 17 2013 09:35 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:58 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:52 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. ...I mean it's really clear to me, am I not getting through? Let's keep it in GSL, you invite all the code S protoss/zerg in a tourney, and then you do qualifiers between code A players. Noblesse and Center, good players, don't automatically become MVP and Flash, great players, just because great players weren't invited. You're basically saying that Noblesse and Center should be favored over the other code A players because the code S players were invited, which makes no sense. Starve's point is more interesting though. My point is the European/non-korean Terrans aren't/weren't as bad as their reputation may be. Now that their odds aren't as skewed anymore as by the end of WoL it's very likely that some of the will emerge as just as strong as their counterparts from Zerg/Toss . You might see it differently but Terran has become alot more competetive at the non-korean level again for whatever reason. And it great to see. Maybe they became better but i think they've been good before just had a disadvantage in WoL . Well WoL's end was zerg overpowered, not terran underpowered. Korean PvT was at least balanced, if not advantage terran. So your argument only works in the TvZ match-up, not in the TvP match-up.Also I like how 5-1-0 is "competitive" in your book, that's a solid euphemism, I'll keep it for later =) Both Zerg and Toss in WoL allowed for more and sometimes bigger mistakes while still granting you a chance to win than Terran . I'm not saying terran was super UP in WoL. Because the Koreans still did well with it against other Koreans. On the slightly lower levels not so much. If the Korean Terrans would be dominating as well we might have an issue but they're not. Terran was legitimately overpowered though too, for a long time actually and yet no EU Terran's ever really did anything with it. Thorzain won TSL and that was basically the only thing an EU Terran did in that whole time Terran was overpowered. There's more to it than just Terran being the weaker race but I don't know what. When Terran was strong 2010 and 2011 there had been plenty of European Terran winning tournaments besides Thorzain. Naama who won the first Dreamhack , Sjow won a big IEM and there's quite a few more. Just look through the results of 2010 and 2011 . You'll find plenty of European Terran placing well. It just stopped at some point. Seriously at the earlier stages of WoL Europe was actually dominated by Terran , people just don't seem to remember that.
Yup, and that IEM tourney that SjoW won had a crazy % of terrans, was like 80-90% terran if i recall correctly. Europe was dominated by Terran in 2010-early 2011.
Good to see that coming back into style :D :D :D :D
Nice to see Strelok getting through as well. When he was on that "Ambitious Terran" phase he was playing at quite a high level, but couldn't quite break through, and seemed to lose motivation or something, good to see him back.
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On April 17 2013 16:43 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 10:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 17 2013 09:35 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:58 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:52 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:46 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:40 Nebuchad wrote:On April 17 2013 08:38 s3rp wrote:On April 17 2013 08:36 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Except the terrans that qualified aren't the missing great terran players that you speak of... This is a really ridiculous defense. Execpt Bunny all of the qualified Terrans at least had some strong showings before. Nothing groundbreaking but good enough to make them a threat to qualify on a good day. I don't mean to say they're bad. Just saying that the argument is ridiculous. It's like saying "hey MVP and Flash aren't in code S this year, so it makes sense that Noblesse and Center should qualify." I don't know you eliminate the top20 european non-terrans( yes it's 19 i know ) by seeding them it becomes likelier that Terrans qualify , doesn't it ? Unless you believe in the notion that the non-korean Terrans are worse than their counter parts of Zerg/Toss. ...I mean it's really clear to me, am I not getting through? Let's keep it in GSL, you invite all the code S protoss/zerg in a tourney, and then you do qualifiers between code A players. Noblesse and Center, good players, don't automatically become MVP and Flash, great players, just because great players weren't invited. You're basically saying that Noblesse and Center should be favored over the other code A players because the code S players were invited, which makes no sense. Starve's point is more interesting though. My point is the European/non-korean Terrans aren't/weren't as bad as their reputation may be. Now that their odds aren't as skewed anymore as by the end of WoL it's very likely that some of the will emerge as just as strong as their counterparts from Zerg/Toss . You might see it differently but Terran has become alot more competetive at the non-korean level again for whatever reason. And it great to see. Maybe they became better but i think they've been good before just had a disadvantage in WoL . Well WoL's end was zerg overpowered, not terran underpowered. Korean PvT was at least balanced, if not advantage terran. So your argument only works in the TvZ match-up, not in the TvP match-up.Also I like how 5-1-0 is "competitive" in your book, that's a solid euphemism, I'll keep it for later =) Both Zerg and Toss in WoL allowed for more and sometimes bigger mistakes while still granting you a chance to win than Terran . I'm not saying terran was super UP in WoL. Because the Koreans still did well with it against other Koreans. On the slightly lower levels not so much. If the Korean Terrans would be dominating as well we might have an issue but they're not. Terran was legitimately overpowered though too, for a long time actually and yet no EU Terran's ever really did anything with it. Thorzain won TSL and that was basically the only thing an EU Terran did in that whole time Terran was overpowered. There's more to it than just Terran being the weaker race but I don't know what. 5-rax reaper, MorroW
Yeah there was a few wins when Terran was total bullshit between release and like January 2011, but Terran was still the best race from Jan 2011 all the way until early 2012 it just wasn't completely broken.
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EPT
