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On December 08 2012 14:20 graan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:13 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 08 2012 14:09 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:02 sdecker32 wrote:On December 08 2012 14:00 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 13:56 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 13:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Rofl the people thinking this team can dominate better repent their dumb naive views Name a Kespa team with a better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja if they bring their A-game? Hardly dumb or naive. All KeSPA teams have same or better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja. This is proleague, not MLG. Unless you know somethigng that no-one else does, this is a fairly ignorant statement. SKT- Rain/Soo/Fantasy Samsung- Jangbi/Roro STX- Last/Trap/Bogus Woonjin- Flying/Soulkey/SOS KT- Flash/Stats/KH CJ- Effort/Bbyong/Skyhigh/Hero Team 8- Baby/Jaedong (still technically part of team 8, just loaned to EG for a year) This is Proleague, not MLG. How many times are people going to say "This is Proleague, not MLG." Really that makes no sense to say. Second, the question is for a 1-2 punch and you listed more than 2 players for every team except Samsung Khan, plus you listed a player not on the roster for Team 8 (lol). You also apparently didn't realize that a lot of those players you listed aren't as good as HerO/Taeja. GG "This is Proleague, not MLG." sounds sooo cool to say and shitting on mlg is kind of a thing.. makes me sick -.-
Proleague is 1 year long season whereas MLG is just a 3-day marathon.
You have to be consistently good to win Proleague.
Stephano won't be there for long since he got international tournament to cover and what not.
Same goes for HerO and Taeja.
To be a Proleague winner, your entire team must be playing consistently well throughout the year.
It's not an all-kill format where you rely on one person to carry the team.
That's why EG-TL won't win Proleague.
HerO and Taeja won't be there consistently since there will be a lot of international tournaments throughout the year and they also have GSL to play.
Kespa players/teams treat Proleague super duper important and they practice really hard for it.
Even if they have international tournaments going on, Kespa teams always prioritise Proleague over any other tournament.
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I really hope FF is removed from the game or mechanically reiterated by LotV's release. It just ruins the game with it's buggy effects on pathing. It really feels like a bandaid for Protoss to make up for the weaknesses of the race. Like Infestors for Zerg, it adds nothing to the overall strategy.
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On December 08 2012 14:27 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:25 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 14:21 m0ck wrote:
For the people with proleague experience, how often would you say the matches come down to the ace-match? In BW days, it is very often in BO5 series, I would guess maybe 40% of the series. Skillwise, everyone is just so close to each other. Bo7 in SC2, who knows. 10-11 proleague was Bo7 with ace match
I guess I didn't watch proleague for too long.
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as an asian all i have to say
do these guys get trained to just go -.-?
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On December 08 2012 14:25 Lambertus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:17 karlmengsk wrote:
I only caught the last two games, but it looks like Thorzain just got taken by suprise (and steamrolled) by muta-ling-baneling, and the immortal-sentry all-in is really strong at the top level, even if Jaedong didn't necessarily make any mistakes (from what I could tell)? Yes, but on the other hand you could ask: Why didnt Thorzain scout? why didnt he prepare for that push that is very common at the moment? So he did some basic but important mistakes... Jaedong didnt do too much mistakes but he did some...for example he didnt delay Stats push to the ramp, he stopped producing drones and didnt build any spines...
Very true, nice observations.
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Northern Ireland24945 Posts
Who's to say EGTL players won't take it as their number 1 aim going further? Perhaps they won't, but I'd imagine that playing on such a hallowed E-sports ground would give some great incentive to the likes of HerO and Taeja especially.
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On December 08 2012 14:23 Sabu113 wrote:
Zenio, JYP and thorzain have played the game long enough that they should have been favored. If they don't look good now, when will they be worthwhile?
Good question.....
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Doa sure is saying "SKT1" a lot, starting to get on my nerves.
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It is SKT T1 Doa.
Not SKT1.
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Well good thing I got KT as my team for fantasy, 4-0 = 8 points.
Back on topic, I was so sad JD lost to the sentry Immortal all-in :-/.
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On December 08 2012 14:22 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:20 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:15 mordk wrote:On December 08 2012 14:09 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:02 sdecker32 wrote:On December 08 2012 14:00 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 13:56 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 13:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Rofl the people thinking this team can dominate better repent their dumb naive views Name a Kespa team with a better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja if they bring their A-game? Hardly dumb or naive. All KeSPA teams have same or better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja. This is proleague, not MLG. Unless you know somethigng that no-one else does, this is a fairly ignorant statement. SKT- Rain/Soo/Fantasy Samsung- Jangbi/Roro STX- Last/Trap/Bogus Woonjin- Flying/Soulkey/SOS KT- Flash/Stats/KH CJ- Effort/Bbyong/Skyhigh/Hero Team 8- Baby/Jaedong (still technically part of team 8, just loaned to EG for a year) This is Proleague, not MLG. SKT - Fantasy/Soo not as good as either hero or taeja. Samsung - Jangbi has done nothing of note yet STX - Only Bogus is notable Woongjin - Only soulkey is any good, and in relative decadence since his debut in SC2 KT - Only flash so far, stats has been decent but nowhere near hero/taeja CJ - Close, but still rather unproven T8 - JD doesn't count, plus he's not as good as either hero or taeja, same for baby, worst team in PL Stop looking with you BW tinted glasses, you just don't seem to know a lot about SC2 apparently. The actual truth is that this is pretty hard to evaluate right now, since most PL players have played a small sample of relevant matches (Against code S level players). All we know is that Hero and taeja are pretty damn good at SC2. I don't have time now, but when i get back home im gonna embarrass you with a long typed out analysis on why you are mostly wrong. Rofl, looking forward to this. Even Rain, the most impressive player I've seen from the Kespa ranks quickly fell into Code B. It's hard to be consistent over a wide variety of formats sometimes. Some of the initially hyped Kespa players have shown pretty bad play since, and some of them may yet rise.
Rain quickly feel into Code B because he forfeited his Code S Ro32 spot which dropped him down to first round of Code A. He went from Ro4 Code S in GSL 4 to Code B after GSL 5 because he lost one Bo3. I think you need to realize the proper perspective.
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Canada5565 Posts
Yea that blue is weird o_o
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Northern Ireland24945 Posts
On December 08 2012 14:33 pookums wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:22 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 14:20 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:15 mordk wrote:On December 08 2012 14:09 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:02 sdecker32 wrote:On December 08 2012 14:00 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 13:56 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 13:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Rofl the people thinking this team can dominate better repent their dumb naive views Name a Kespa team with a better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja if they bring their A-game? Hardly dumb or naive. All KeSPA teams have same or better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja. This is proleague, not MLG. Unless you know somethigng that no-one else does, this is a fairly ignorant statement. SKT- Rain/Soo/Fantasy Samsung- Jangbi/Roro STX- Last/Trap/Bogus Woonjin- Flying/Soulkey/SOS KT- Flash/Stats/KH CJ- Effort/Bbyong/Skyhigh/Hero Team 8- Baby/Jaedong (still technically part of team 8, just loaned to EG for a year) This is Proleague, not MLG. SKT - Fantasy/Soo not as good as either hero or taeja. Samsung - Jangbi has done nothing of note yet STX - Only Bogus is notable Woongjin - Only soulkey is any good, and in relative decadence since his debut in SC2 KT - Only flash so far, stats has been decent but nowhere near hero/taeja CJ - Close, but still rather unproven T8 - JD doesn't count, plus he's not as good as either hero or taeja, same for baby, worst team in PL Stop looking with you BW tinted glasses, you just don't seem to know a lot about SC2 apparently. The actual truth is that this is pretty hard to evaluate right now, since most PL players have played a small sample of relevant matches (Against code S level players). All we know is that Hero and taeja are pretty damn good at SC2. I don't have time now, but when i get back home im gonna embarrass you with a long typed out analysis on why you are mostly wrong. Rofl, looking forward to this. Even Rain, the most impressive player I've seen from the Kespa ranks quickly fell into Code B. It's hard to be consistent over a wide variety of formats sometimes. Some of the initially hyped Kespa players have shown pretty bad play since, and some of them may yet rise. Rain quickly feel into Code B because he forfeited his Code S Ro32 spot which dropped him down to first round of Code A. He went from Ro4 Code S in GSL 4 to Code B after GSL 5 because he lost one Bo3. I think you need to realize the proper perspective.
To compete in a foreign tournament which he didn't even win?
I really love Rain's play, don't get me wrong but the quick drop to Code B illustrates just how impressive HerO and Taeja sticking around in GSL for so long actually is.
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On December 08 2012 14:22 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:20 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:15 mordk wrote:On December 08 2012 14:09 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:02 sdecker32 wrote:On December 08 2012 14:00 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 13:56 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 13:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Rofl the people thinking this team can dominate better repent their dumb naive views Name a Kespa team with a better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja if they bring their A-game? Hardly dumb or naive. All KeSPA teams have same or better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja. This is proleague, not MLG. Unless you know somethigng that no-one else does, this is a fairly ignorant statement. SKT- Rain/Soo/Fantasy Samsung- Jangbi/Roro STX- Last/Trap/Bogus Woonjin- Flying/Soulkey/SOS KT- Flash/Stats/KH CJ- Effort/Bbyong/Skyhigh/Hero Team 8- Baby/Jaedong (still technically part of team 8, just loaned to EG for a year) This is Proleague, not MLG. SKT - Fantasy/Soo not as good as either hero or taeja. Samsung - Jangbi has done nothing of note yet STX - Only Bogus is notable Woongjin - Only soulkey is any good, and in relative decadence since his debut in SC2 KT - Only flash so far, stats has been decent but nowhere near hero/taeja CJ - Close, but still rather unproven T8 - JD doesn't count, plus he's not as good as either hero or taeja, same for baby, worst team in PL Stop looking with you BW tinted glasses, you just don't seem to know a lot about SC2 apparently. The actual truth is that this is pretty hard to evaluate right now, since most PL players have played a small sample of relevant matches (Against code S level players). All we know is that Hero and taeja are pretty damn good at SC2. I don't have time now, but when i get back home im gonna embarrass you with a long typed out analysis on why you are mostly wrong. Rofl, looking forward to this. E ven Rain, the most impressive player I've seen from the Kespa ranks quickly fell into Code B. It's hard to be consistent over a wide variety of formats sometimes. Some of the initially hyped Kespa players have shown pretty bad play since, and some of them may yet rise.
Rain...forfeited Code S...do you not know that...Idk if you're serious or not.
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IMO: Kespa players and teams are highly underrated by the majority of the foreign community. While they may not produce good results in the oh-so-precious foreign tournaments, they are still good players, VERY good. The environment there is so different from foreign teams. The biggest thing I noticed when watching the games was that the Kespa players did ANYTHING to win. They may not be fully acclimated to SC2 yet, but they can do what it takes to win.
Of the 4 games, Flash was the only Kespa player that stood out to me as a well-rounded individual. The other three did things considered old-school. When you are not training in a house for 12 hours a day, you often get lazy and don't account for older varieties or timings that used to be very powerful. This stood out most to me in the JYP/Wooki game where Wooki opted for 3 gate blink timing rather than waiting for observers. JYP just looked so unprepared for that timing and instantly fell apart. It takes a special player to be able to recognize these older timings and take minimal damage, and the ones that do are those who go far in the GSL. I feel fairly confident that if JYP/Thorzain/JD had been able to play a more normal game that they would've pulled out the win. The problems is that the EG-TL guys were cutting corners under the assumption that the Kespa players would play like everyone else, but they haven't experienced playing against the really good players who shut down their old-school timings in the way intended with the new metagame.
The absence of Taeja, Hero, and Stephano was definitely felt and I feel like their presence would have had a huge impact on the results. This is just going to show how much the rest of the team is going to need to step up if they want to have a serious shot at winning this tournament.
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On December 08 2012 14:36 LuckyMacro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:22 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 14:20 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:15 mordk wrote:On December 08 2012 14:09 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:02 sdecker32 wrote:On December 08 2012 14:00 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 13:56 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 13:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Rofl the people thinking this team can dominate better repent their dumb naive views Name a Kespa team with a better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja if they bring their A-game? Hardly dumb or naive. All KeSPA teams have same or better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja. This is proleague, not MLG. Unless you know somethigng that no-one else does, this is a fairly ignorant statement. SKT- Rain/Soo/Fantasy Samsung- Jangbi/Roro STX- Last/Trap/Bogus Woonjin- Flying/Soulkey/SOS KT- Flash/Stats/KH CJ- Effort/Bbyong/Skyhigh/Hero Team 8- Baby/Jaedong (still technically part of team 8, just loaned to EG for a year) This is Proleague, not MLG. SKT - Fantasy/Soo not as good as either hero or taeja. Samsung - Jangbi has done nothing of note yet STX - Only Bogus is notable Woongjin - Only soulkey is any good, and in relative decadence since his debut in SC2 KT - Only flash so far, stats has been decent but nowhere near hero/taeja CJ - Close, but still rather unproven T8 - JD doesn't count, plus he's not as good as either hero or taeja, same for baby, worst team in PL Stop looking with you BW tinted glasses, you just don't seem to know a lot about SC2 apparently. The actual truth is that this is pretty hard to evaluate right now, since most PL players have played a small sample of relevant matches (Against code S level players). All we know is that Hero and taeja are pretty damn good at SC2. I don't have time now, but when i get back home im gonna embarrass you with a long typed out analysis on why you are mostly wrong. Rofl, looking forward to this. E ven Rain, the most impressive player I've seen from the Kespa ranks quickly fell into Code B. It's hard to be consistent over a wide variety of formats sometimes. Some of the initially hyped Kespa players have shown pretty bad play since, and some of them may yet rise. Rain...forfeited Code S...do you not know that...Idk if you're serious or not.
He did get rolled by Dream in Code A though, he looked pretty terrible in those games. But it's just one series, I'm sure he'll be back on code S pretty soon.
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On December 08 2012 14:28 bourne117 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 14:21 Jealous wrote:On December 08 2012 14:18 rasers wrote:On December 08 2012 14:15 mordk wrote:On December 08 2012 14:09 BackSideAttack wrote:On December 08 2012 14:02 sdecker32 wrote:On December 08 2012 14:00 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 13:56 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2012 13:54 GreyKnight wrote:
Rofl the people thinking this team can dominate better repent their dumb naive views Name a Kespa team with a better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja if they bring their A-game? Hardly dumb or naive. All KeSPA teams have same or better 1-2 punch than HerO and Taeja. This is proleague, not MLG. Unless you know somethigng that no-one else does, this is a fairly ignorant statement. SKT- Rain/Soo/Fantasy Samsung- Jangbi/Roro STX- Last/Trap/Bogus Woonjin- Flying/Soulkey/SOS KT- Flash/Stats/KH CJ- Effort/Bbyong/Skyhigh/Hero Team 8- Baby/Jaedong (still technically part of team 8, just loaned to EG for a year) This is Proleague, not MLG. SKT - Fantasy/Soo not as good as either hero or taeja. Samsung - Jangbi has done nothing of note yet STX - Only Bogus is notable Woongjin - Only soulkey is any good, and in relative decadence since his debut in SC2 KT - Only flash so far, stats has been decent but nowhere near hero/taeja CJ - Close, but still rather unproven T8 - JD doesn't count, plus he's not as good as either hero or taeja, same for baby, worst team in PL Stop looking with you BW tinted glasses, you just don't seem to know a lot about SC2 apparently. The actual truth is that this is pretty hard to evaluate right now, since most PL players have played a small sample of relevant matches (Against code S level players). All we know is that Hero and taeja are pretty damn good at SC2. and you could stop looking at results when most of these players didn't even play in many tournaments so ofcourse they haven't done anythint notable. if you actualyl would look at the gameplay (if u can do that dunno if you get what is going on there) you would see that there are enough people that can go toe to toe with hero/taeja. but i will love it when hero comes back and plays his first game and will get rolled. i already see the comments "oh he choking. his nerves. big issues". oh and iam sure every KeSPA team will snipe these players 2 hell. Not to mention that people are citing foreign results -_-; It's like citing checkers winrate in a go league. Ok lets look at GSL since it is clearly the best place to look for individual abilities (and kespa players have been in it since season 4) Taeja has made 3 ro8s and a ro4. Hero has mad 2 ro8s. Both have been in GSL almost the entire year. Zenio has been in GSL almost all year (code A but has been in code s also) Same for JYP. Stephano has posted very good results (look at the GSL korean vs foreigner thing almost all killed them) So what results or gameplay are you looking at that say these players can compete with that?
None. It's the fact that it's still checkers in a go match. It'd make just as little sense citing go statistics in comparison to checkers ones.
Also, check the recent thread on Stephano - he is BARELY over 50% vs. Koreans, and most of them not even Code S caliber. Case closed.
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Ok, let's get something straight, Taeja and Hero, and probably even Stephano will tear shit up, I totally see that happening (sadly not today).
But to sit there and say that other teams don't have their answer to Taeja and Hero is just... sad. It's like you guys don't even watch Proleague at all.
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Wow, what a slaughter. Did these guys call themselves professional gamers? O.o
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EPT
