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Starting on Page 125, asking if people are ok will result in bans. |
On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question.
MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it.
Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?!
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I really wish they would shut up and just start the games already :/
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United States97277 Posts
On June 19 2012 07:17 Snusmumriken wrote:
who the hell is maddelisk?
girl progamer
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So I thought the Finals should be starting now?
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On June 19 2012 07:15 snoop101 wrote:
They should at least have the commentators chatting to pass the time.
This!
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I don't know bout you... BUT I FUCKING LOVE THAT IT'S LATE. Came from the great outdoors, eaten some picked fruit, and now I'm greated with the best final i could dream off. Peace man, love don't hate
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Oh, and what is the crowd like at Dreamhack right now? I mean.. it's past midnight on a weekday.
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On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question.
Dota players get a little angsty about the MOBA term because the term MOBA was invented by Riot mainly so they could avoid saying "it's just like dota!"
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so weird that a euro tourney is on at a bad time for europeans
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On June 19 2012 07:18 Zojukanji wrote:
is it over already?
no, we are waiting for the finals.
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On June 19 2012 07:16 Gevna wrote:
So american are not going to watch crappy eu tournament, with sub top players in final.
And european are going to bed.
there won't be lot of people watching the final of dream hack summer 2012.
I'm watching the DH finals, so there will be at least one American
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On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question.
MOBA is a term made by Riot Games for LOL, and by the power of logic it shouldn't apply to HON and DotA even though they are similar in style. In fact all of the games you asked about are of the RTS genre (Real Time Strategy), simply because they are strategic games played out in real time (similar to star craft).
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On June 19 2012 07:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:girl progamer
shes not a pro, even i beat her on ladder...
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All the way to this point everytnig has been going so smoothly. I would love to see a caster commentating something, or some hype videos being shown. Interviews. Crowd. Tempo's songs on the background. People getting the stage ready.
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On June 19 2012 07:17 Tayar wrote:
Dear Dreamhack,
Find a couch.
Make incontrol and 2gd sit on that couch.
Put a camera on them.
Make them talk.
Downtime is the devil.
This, seriously, fucking this. Downtime is actually killing esports.
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On June 19 2012 07:17 Vadrigar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA was a term thought of RIOT, creators of LoL. Dota is a LOT older than that. LoL, HoN are Dota clones. Politically correct term is ARTS- Action RTS.
Just google "dota" and "dota clone". Easy.
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On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question.
Multiplayer Online Battle Arena
It's a stupid term because it can apply to ANY online game, even call of duty, starcraft, WoW, Diablo... etc etc. It says nothing about the genre. Action RTS (ARTS) is a slightly better term, but even that is vague.
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On June 19 2012 07:17 Tayar wrote:
Dear Dreamhack,
Find a couch.
Make incontrol and 2gd sit on that couch.
Put a camera on them.
Make them talk.
Downtime is the devil.
I'll drink to that!!
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On June 19 2012 07:17 Tayar wrote:
Dear Dreamhack,
Find a couch.
Make incontrol and 2gd sit on that couch.
Put a camera on them.
Make them talk.
Downtime is the devil.
agreed just the star craftlogo and soundloop is pretty bad for the viewing experience
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EPT
