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Starting on Page 125, asking if people are ok will result in bans. |
On June 19 2012 07:17 Vadrigar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA was a term thought of RIOT, creators of LoL. Dota is a LOT older than that. LoL, HoN are Dota clones. Politically correct term is ARTS- Action RTS.
technically SC is a MOBA too
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On June 19 2012 07:19 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:17 Nimic wrote:
Last time I checked the stream had 55k viewers. Now it has 35k. This could end up being a hard-earned lesson for Dreamhack. Well that's naturally. All the Sc2 fans were watching Dota2 because they were waiting for Sc2, but now the Dota2 fans can leave the stream because Dota2 is over. Not every Dota2 fan is interested in Sc2 (probably not many of them). Still for some part it's also the downtime and the bad time.
THIS, finally someone using common sense.
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On June 19 2012 07:15 Sp00ly wrote:
Wish people would stop complaining. We are all nerds here, aren't we meant to stay up till 3am due to videogames?
Nerds or not - a lot of people have real-life responsibilities on a Tuesday morning.
You would expect an EU tournament to cater to the EU audience, but it isn't really the case here. Ofc. most of the delay is due to the DOTA finals so I don't really know what could have been done.
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On June 19 2012 07:18 Xadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:17 Snusmumriken wrote:
who the hell is maddelisk? girl progamer shes not a pro, even i beat her on ladder...
She beat dApollo though...
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On June 19 2012 07:19 JayJay_90 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:
[quote]
Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on.
To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?! There needs to be a term to describe that kind of games though. Give me a better one and I'm never gonna use moba again 
"tower defense" LOL.
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On June 19 2012 07:19 yeint wrote:
So Dota finals are going on? Where can I see this? The stream page for dreamhack is a confusing mess tbh.
Dota finals done a long time ago. Great show
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
Dreamhack is always so frustrating to watch...
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some pcs must have exploded or something
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shit dreamhack, get it together. long breaks like this do nothing but kill the excitment.
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4713 Posts
On June 19 2012 07:17 Tayar wrote:
Dear Dreamhack,
Find a couch.
Make incontrol and 2gd sit on that couch.
Put a camera on them.
Make them talk.
Downtime is the devil.
Yes please, the only downside of that is that, the awesomeness of it all might make us forget about the final, but anything is better then waiting to looping music and a logo, no matter how much you love it.
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On June 19 2012 07:19 JayJay_90 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:
[quote]
Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on.
To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?! There needs to be a term to describe that kind of games though. Give me a better one and I'm never gonna use moba again
Defense of the Ancients. Where each team defends their respective Ancients (bases). Quite simple really.
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On June 19 2012 07:17 snoop101 wrote:
Canada here and its 4:15 pm.... I was up at 5 am to start watching... Loved all of it.
Me too!! Started at 7 am my time, so I missed the first match getting breakfast ready for the kids and sending them off to school, wife left for work around 8:30ish, and I didn't have too work today!!
Having porkchops for dinner, should be done when the finals start. Been a great day of SC2 
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Can anybody in Sweden give a LR of what's going on with this being broadcasted on national television if thats why this is being delayed.
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On June 19 2012 07:16 gedatsu wrote:
Maddelisk getting interviewed on tv now
hnnnngg
She did really well. A very well-spoken individual in my personal opinion.
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On June 19 2012 07:13 Yoshi- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:07 r00ty wrote:
The only thing that makes DotA style games appealing is the team aspect. Single person skill wise it's not even near the top. Never ever. BW+Q3/Live top the list by leagues! Then you haven't seen Dendi's 500apm tinker in game one
So apm is skill, didn't know that, thanks for the clarification! *shakes his head*
edit Maybe i'm a bit provocative for someone not that into DotA sorry, but there's no way LoL/DotA has higher skill ceiling than the mentionend games. If you believe that watch the Quake vid posted or some epic BW Flash games. The mind games, knowledge and tactical finesse required are above any game so far. Let's not start with micro/aim/control...
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Everyone step back, Mana's got this!
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On June 19 2012 07:15 Sp00ly wrote:
Wish people would stop complaining. We are all nerds here, aren't we meant to stay up till 3am due to videogames?
I like you
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Does anyone know who will be casting the finals?
DJ Wheat and Apollo or Incontrol and Khaldor?
Personally I prefer Incontrol and Khaldor they are so amazing together.
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Maddelisk! Such a nice brain in such an awsome package!
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On June 19 2012 07:20 Kimzao wrote:
Report from the Swedish TV broadcast:
Great interviews with DJ Wheat and Hellspawn.
After that Maddelisk was responsible for the mandatory explanation for the mainstreamers what Starcraft is. I clocked how long it took for the chess analogy to be used. 15 seconds.
Hm. Would be cool if they had broadcasted this on stream as well, whether it's in Swedish or not.
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EPT
