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Starting on Page 125, asking if people are ok will result in bans. |
On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question.
MOBA is a term that Riot made up to attempt to put DotA and LoL in the same genre. You know what "MOBA" is?
"Multiplayer Online Battle Arena"
Could you think of a more disingenuous and vague fucking term? I sure as hell can't, because this is by far the most vague and stupid term that anyone could ever come up with to describe a game. Describing a game as a "MOBA" would put it under the same category as Call of Duty or Quake or Brood War. I don't want to turn this into a LoL vs DotA thread, this isn't the thread for it frankly but it's a term that Riot made up for no reason other than make their game seem as legitimate as DotA. At best you can describe it as an aRTS, but you're better off just describing them as they are. By their names.
DotA, LoL, and HoN. MOBA is a stupid fucking term and it blends LoL and DotA into the same category, when anyone with any experience in both of them can attest that they are not even CLOSE to being the same game in any aspect in the same sense that Starcraft 2 and Brood War are not even close to being the same game.
This is the SC2 thread though. If you really want to go into this, let's go to PM or something because I don't want to shit up this thread when SC2 starts :D
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On June 19 2012 07:18 Integra wrote:
I really wish they would shut up and just start the games already :/
At least you guys get something to watch instead of staring at a screen with a starcraft 2 logo and the same music like the rest of the world. 
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So right now its two girls speaking in swedish. Can't understand crap 
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On June 19 2012 07:17 Tayar wrote:
Dear Dreamhack,
Find a couch.
Make incontrol and 2gd sit on that couch.
Put a camera on them.
Make them talk.
Downtime is the devil. this would be considerably more compelling than dota
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Losing viewers by the minute
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Well crap...
I really really want to watch this finals but it's already 1:15 and I have to go to my bus for work at 7:30, what do?
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On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?!
There needs to be a term to describe that kind of games though. Give me a better one and I'm never gonna use moba again 
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The issue is that Swedish TV is broadcasting this too now and there has been pre-show on tv which is why nothing is happening on the stream.
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On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?!
Quake III/Live
Multiplayer? Check
Online? Check
Battle? Check
Arena? Quake III Arena. Check
Quake is a MOBA!
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And i complained about MLG....
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So Dota finals are going on? Where can I see this? The stream page for dreamhack is a confusing mess tbh.
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On June 19 2012 07:17 Nimic wrote:
Last time I checked the stream had 55k viewers. Now it has 35k. This could end up being a hard-earned lesson for Dreamhack.
Well that's naturally. All the Sc2 fans were watching Dota2 because they were waiting for Sc2, but now the Dota2 fans can leave the stream because Dota2 is over. Not every Dota2 fan is interested in Sc2 (probably not many of them).
Still for some part it's also the downtime and the bad time.
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Maddelisk giving her thoughts on the finals.
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On June 19 2012 07:18 Xadar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:17 Snusmumriken wrote:
who the hell is maddelisk? girl progamer shes not a pro, even i beat her on ladder...
According to 2GD, she beat dApollo on ladder though
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A tourney in Korea would never go like this. Just sayin.
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Yeah I also have to be up in 6 hours.
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On June 19 2012 07:18 acidfreak wrote:
I don't know bout you... BUT I FUCKING LOVE THAT IT'S LATE. Came from the great outdoors, eaten some picked fruit, and now I'm greated with the best final i could dream off. Peace man, love don't hate
That is lucky scheduling for you, Grats. For people staying up to watch and end up waiting on a black screen wont be as happy.
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Report from the Swedish TV broadcast:
Great interviews with DJ Wheat and Hellspawn.
After that Maddelisk was responsible for the mandatory explanation for the mainstreamers what Starcraft is. I clocked how long it took for the chess analogy to be used. 15 seconds.
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EPT
