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Starting on Page 125, asking if people are ok will result in bans. |
On June 19 2012 07:20 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:19 JayJay_90 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:
[quote]
You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other.
Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?! There needs to be a term to describe that kind of games though. Give me a better one and I'm never gonna use moba again  Defense of the Ancients. Where each team defends their respective Ancients (bases). Quite simple really.
so even more simply it is tower defence, right?
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On June 19 2012 07:19 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:18 Integra wrote:
I really wish they would shut up and just start the games already :/ At least you guys get something to watch instead of staring at a screen with a starcraft 2 logo and the same music like the rest of the world. 
the only good thing was the interview with djWheat, everything else was swenglish.... they even called the casters "kasterna" when they could had said "kommentarorerna" or just say "lämna över till Dreamhack".. Terrible.
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On June 19 2012 07:21 Jaegeru wrote:
Can anybody in Sweden give a LR of what's going on with this being broadcasted on national television if thats why this is being delayed.
Right now they're just showing the venue
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On June 19 2012 07:21 Nordmo wrote:
Does anyone know who will be casting the finals?
DJ Wheat and Apollo or Incontrol and Khaldor?
Personally I prefer Incontrol and Khaldor they are so amazing together.
djAPOLLO
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On June 19 2012 07:20 acidfreak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:19 yeint wrote:
So Dota finals are going on? Where can I see this? The stream page for dreamhack is a confusing mess tbh. Dota finals done a long time ago. Great show
Okay, but is there something being played? Because all I'm seeing is a stream with an SC2 logo.
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On June 19 2012 07:20 Spicy_Curry wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:17 Vadrigar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:
[quote]
Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on.
To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other. Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA was a term thought of RIOT, creators of LoL. Dota is a LOT older than that. LoL, HoN are Dota clones. Politically correct term is ARTS- Action RTS. technically SC is a MOBA too
Technically SC is an action RTS as well...
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On June 19 2012 07:21 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:13 Yoshi- wrote:On June 19 2012 07:07 r00ty wrote:
The only thing that makes DotA style games appealing is the team aspect. Single person skill wise it's not even near the top. Never ever. BW+Q3/Live top the list by leagues! Then you haven't seen Dendi's 500apm tinker in game one So apm is skill, didn't know that, thanks for the clarification! *shakes his head*
The Joke
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Your head.
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guys I just broke my first official yawn of tonight. you just yawned didn't you?
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On June 19 2012 07:21 LittLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:16 gedatsu wrote:
Maddelisk getting interviewed on tv now
hnnnngg She did really well. A very well-spoken individual in my personal opinion.
I so have a crush on her. We were born on the same day, too. Clearly it's a sign.
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Please put on K Pop 
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why is there nothing on the stream or am i on the wrong one?
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On June 19 2012 07:20 MentalGNT wrote:
You would expect an EU tournament to cater to the EU audience, but it isn't really the case here. Ofc. most of the delay is due to the DOTA finals so I don't really know what could have been done.
They could have played the finals 2-3 hours ago on another stage.
I wouldn't even mind the delays, if they just gave us ETAs, and any sort of content, interviews, music, highlights, even that bloody Machine advert again, anything. This is a shambles.
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Now even the SVT-broadcast have downtime: "We are waiting for the Starcraft 2 finals [...]"... not terribly good I feel.
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On June 19 2012 07:20 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:19 JayJay_90 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:
[quote]
You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other.
Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?! There needs to be a term to describe that kind of games though. Give me a better one and I'm never gonna use moba again Defense of the Ancients. Where each team defends their respective Ancients (bases). Quite simple really.
sorry, that doesn't do the trick. you can't just take the name of one of those games, i might aswell call them dota clones then. and an ancient is not exactly a general term.
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when i joined the stream about 30 minutes ago there were 50k+ viwers now we are on 35k but who cares about less viewers at the finals ? the job is done money is earned attention is spreaded and for DH the TV time is probally worth more tahn 20k final viewers on the stream
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Well DH Stockholm blew me away, all though this weekend i have seen better games and players i had much more fun with the Stockholm event.
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Dreamhack, please fill the waiting time with something.
Interviews
Some Casters chatting
Porn
Some music besides the sc2 stuff
One IPL had K-Pop, and it was still better than that
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On June 19 2012 07:20 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 07:19 JayJay_90 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:17 mordk wrote:On June 19 2012 07:15 MentalGNT wrote:On June 19 2012 07:10 Candadar wrote:On June 19 2012 07:09 Azarkon wrote:On June 19 2012 07:06 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 07:04 masterchip27 wrote:On June 19 2012 07:01 maartendq wrote:On June 19 2012 06:53 Slardar wrote:
[quote]
You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other.
Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you. I watched Starcraft without much idea of what does what. I had played the campaign a few times, but I mainly started watching it because I once saw a documentary about Starcraft being a popular competitive video game in South Korea. I had a great time watching practically all the games on gomtv.net, grew really fond of tasteless as a caster (I still am, even though Artosis drowns him out way too much and Tasteless' passion for Starcraft 2 isn't on the same level as his passion for BW). I found out very quickly how the game functioned. The premise was also very easy: destroy the other player's base. Like you said, in a MOBA game you have to know each of the heroes, and there tend to be a lot. Next there's also the items, critters that randomly seem to attack towers (what's their function?), gold etc. There's a lot of stuff you cannot know unless you play the game yourself, or do a ton of research. That's not good for a spectator sport. Football, tennis, basketball, hell even american football are all sports that are relatively easy to understand for people who are new to them. The finesse unfolds if you watch it a lot. It's not something I see happening with MOBA games, a genre which I personally find a bastardization of the RTS genre (since you basically only have to control one unit). Empirically league of legends has had a higher magnitude of livestream viewers than sc2 recently, at many events. So, I wouldn't be too sure about that theorycrafting. If a game is popular to play, and has a good competitive scene, people will watch. Well, it's a free and relatively casual game, with in-game stream support (hint HINT, blizzard?). It's got a way higher playerbase than SC2 as well, again, because it is free to play. If SC2's multiplayer were suddenly F2P, we'd see SC2 player number surge! No, we won't. SC 2 started off with a player base of 1 million+ players in the NA. It's a tiny fraction of that - around 10,000-20,000 by my last log in to the NA server - who play online ladder matches. Competitive RTS games aren't that attractive to casual players, and it's the casual players who make up the bulk of MOBA viewers. MOBA Please stop using this term. It's fucking retarded. -The Society of People Who Undestand What MOBA Stands For Can you explain what it is then? First result on "MOBA" into google is a site about LoL strategy. Aren't LoL, DOTA, HoN etc. MOBAs? I'm not trolling. Genuine question. MOBA is a term coined by LoL developers iirc, imo the problem with the term is it doesn't describe AT ALL what happens in a DotA/LoL/HoN type of game, so I hate it. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?? WTF is that?! There needs to be a term to describe that kind of games though. Give me a better one and I'm never gonna use moba again Defense of the Ancients. Where each team defends their respective Ancients (bases). Quite simple really.
Yeah, I'd be happy even with "Dota-Like" games, it's a lot more precise. I actually find the term ARTS (Action RTS) a lot better than MOBA as well, since at least it's an RTS
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On June 19 2012 07:19 Racer wrote:
And i complained about MLG....
To be fair, MLG has still far more downtimes than DH. It´s just the one downtime here being placed really bad.
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Who was the guy who said Dreamhack was waiting until stream viewers dropped below 35 k? Freaking oracle. :o
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EPT
