EPT해병
This keyboard layout, man...
[GSL] 2012 Season 1 Code S Ro16 Group C - Page 76
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
해병 This keyboard layout, man... | ||
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randomdude123
Belgium19 Posts
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Solo Terran
367 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:33 Corrosive wrote: Wait, two totally different races cant do the exact same thing?! this is news to me! So the fact terran can't do early damage to toss unless they stay on one base is fine but toss can pressure early off of 3 base and over 50 probes. Seems balanced. | ||
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ThaSlayer
707 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:37 Lorch wrote: Thanks for reminding me why I usually don't follow these threads when a protoss plays T.T Terran should just look at their own marauder/medivac/mule etc. before bitching about balance. Be specific. Dont throw things you dont even understand into the thread. Its already bad enough. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him. well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute. anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it Nope, you're wrong. Most protoss do not play like this, and those who do are not GSL level. It's easy to pull off at a mid-level player skill range, that's true, but without perfect execution it won't take you far. MC has the best micro and forcefields right now and that's the only reason it seems so easy for him to do it, while everyone else just fails at making it successful. In this game in particular jjakji teched way too hard, believing Parting wasn't going to attack. Parting hit a precise timing, designed to hit when there were very low medivac numbers, meaning the benefit of said teching hadn't hit yet. Had he waited a bit more he would have gotten rolled, no doubt, it was his only window to win and he played it well. | ||
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icecreamlolz
205 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
It's an old QXC story from when he was casting with Wolf. good times. | ||
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Megaman_X
United States164 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:33 Noktix wrote: I really don't get it. I really, really don't. Does Protoss have to lose 95% of their games for people to be happy with the race? Seriously, if Protoss has even a shred of success, it's like the end of the world. I think when people lose to Protoss they feel helpless or something. Nevermind the fact that it's arguably the least successful race in the entirety of SC2. Can't even allow Protoss to advance from a group without them being completely imbalanced. Just amazing. it's amazing how bad of a design protoss is. Blizzard screwed up here | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36919 Posts
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:36 Medrea wrote: Its not blind? You really think protoss can hide all that shit from terran?? Upon scouting the third it will be around three minutes until a banshee is complete with cloak finished. It's about that time that Parting was at Jjakji's base with half a bajillion forcefields. You HAVE to do the banshee blindly BEFORE the third starts to actually be able to counter it. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:35 avilo wrote: You fail to see that jjakji is doing this build as a counter to 15 nexus because of how damn strong 15 nexus is. He is going 15 CC to attempt to even stay even with protoss in a macro game. If he doesn't and parting goes 15 nexus he's behind from pure build order. Also, you fail to see that even if jjakji did do a normal 1 rax expo...protoss can still do virtually the same build, or the 2.5 base version and the same thing will occur because Terran will just have their expo later anyways.... It's more dangerous. 1 rax FE can tech faster to a Cloaked Banshee, or pressures with Marines off 4/5 rax. And you can deal just fine with Nexus first with 1 rax gasless FE. (By the way, here it was 20 nexus before Core if I remember correctly.) | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:35 avilo wrote: You fail to see that jjakji is doing this build as a counter to 15 nexus because of how damn strong 15 nexus is. He is going 15 CC to attempt to even stay even with protoss in a macro game. If he doesn't and parting goes 15 nexus he's behind from pure build order. Also, you fail to see that even if jjakji did do a normal 1 rax expo...protoss can still do virtually the same build, or the 2.5 base version and the same thing will occur because Terran will just have their expo later anyways.... You do not understand this at any level obviously. 3 racks marine SCV pull destroys Nexus first. See MVP vs Hero in Blizzard Cup. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:37 Lorch wrote: Thanks for reminding me why I usually don't follow these threads when a protoss plays T.T Terran should just look at their own marauder/medivac/mule etc. before bitching about balance. throwing your own balance whines into the topic don't really help the topic/situation anyways. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:37 avilo wrote: There is a problem when you can expo AND kill your opponent at the same time. That is not just a SC concept, it's an RTS design concept that allows a game to be balanced. If you're able to freely expo + have the possibility of KILLING your opponent even when they are also 2 base AND massed base defenses...something is wrong. You can't. Its a greedy build with like a 5 and a half minute window of attack. | ||
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
...Gom brings out Belshir beach.... fuuuuu!! | ||
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Addict
Belgium164 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him. well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute. anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it I thought pro's had more finesse than to whine about balance like this.. It's really embarrassing to watch you say these things.. | ||
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Typhon
United States387 Posts
A) he has no idea now to beat it B) Any strategy that counters it loses to most other builds, and he lost the build-order coinflip. | ||
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Bashion
Cook Islands2612 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:36 TheHova wrote: That build only really works against 1 build and on a very large map like Daybreak. He knew what Jjakji was going to do and hard countered it because he does it everytime. I wouldn't really say that is imbalanced, there's a huge timing window where he has more bases than units for a long time. If Jakji did the same build Ganzi did in first game against MC Parting would ve died or taken way too much damage. | ||
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icecreamlolz
205 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build. toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you? its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. | ||
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