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On February 08 2012 19:25 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:23 cyclone25 wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 Heavenly wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 KiNGxXx wrote:
I don't get this. 3rd gets scouted, building bunkers and still the fight is not even close! A nexus is 400 minerals...on the other hand Jjaki went for double ebay, +1, and teched up to medivacs while only having one. And you suggest he shouldn't get upgrades or medivacs? I'm suggesting that 400 minerals is less than what Jjaki was investing, Parting essentially did a 2 base 8gate, except he took 4 zealots out (plus whatever additional probes he made). Is there a reason that, seeing Parting's build, can't make his own orbital, capitalize on mules which are strong too, and mass barracks units?
Yes, there is. You die to Parting's push without medivacs. Forcefields are so powerful vs a Terran defending with pure bio that expanding again was not an option. I think we might see Terrans going for early Tanks after expanding in the future. It seems like that would be the only way to hold off that kind of aggression in response to your early expand. I would be interested to see Tank expand into Bio/Hellion/Medivac vs Protoss. It's often the reinforcing waves of Zealots that break Terran's back, so having a bunch of Hellions might be good?
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On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it
Thank you for talking some sense Morrow.
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On February 08 2012 19:27 eYeball wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it But if Jjakji scouted the fast third he could punish him and maybe win the game outright?
jjakji scouted the 3rd pretty quickly on Daybreak. It looked like he had geared up for punishing asap but maybe Parting's map awareness & timing are too sharp to prevent it from happening.
I mean It's not like all protosses can pull that off and wtfpwnz terrans
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On February 08 2012 19:26 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:24 avilo wrote:On February 08 2012 19:20 Scila wrote:
How does Protoss get 1 more base AND pressure at the same time ? o.o Protoss is the only race that can expo/tech/mass unit production AND possibly kill their opponent at the same time. A bit crazy...as long as that attack kills 6-10 SCVS he insta-comes out way ahead...the only thing that would keep jjakji alive is 4-6 bunkers...and if he puts those up then guess what protoss does? Simply not attack and keeps their third base up for free or even takes a 4th and is ahead.... This is why TvP right now is very...yeah... Sorry, this has nothing to do with imbalance, simply very predictable play from JJakji. Yes, when you play the same build the same way every time, people will study it and come up with a hard counter build. And this is a Terran speaking.
well, i would say parting's build was pretty predictable, jjakji definitely knew it. This is how Parting killed Nada last time. He just couldn't hold, maybe he is too weak 
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Terrans could just go back to the drawing board like every other race has done when something is "imba"...
Give it a try
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On February 08 2012 19:30 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it As people have mentioned before, the build Parting used specifically countered the 15 cc because Jjakji can't pressure when Parting is on ONE GATE and 3 bases with 7 gates building because he has late medivacs. Thats right, 1 gate on 3 bases. So many builds could punish that. Parting's build worked so well because of the fact Jjakji cannot pressure at that time, and then he can just go crush him with his eco/production advantage. Pretty simple really, I'm surprised someone who understands the game on a 'deep' level like yourself can't see this. Considering your past as a Terran only player your comments are also incredibly ironic.
so what youre saying is, Terran isn't allowed to CC first?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:31 Seeker wrote:-__-;; how?
Refusal to use your powers for evil.
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On February 08 2012 19:30 ShivaN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
Thank you!
Agreed 100%
Blizzard cannot possibly look at this regardless of the circumstances and say "yeah that's intended and balanced".
But balance whine doesn't belong in these threads so I'll stop there ><
God it makes me mad though.
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On February 08 2012 19:30 TheHova wrote:
Protoss actually start winning, getting past the Ro16 in GSL. And in comes all the whine again. It's like they're not allowed to win.
Protoss can only win thanks to imbalance (that magically pops up as they win) while they can only loose because of their lack in skill. Sad but true, but Terran out of all races QQing has to be the funniest shit ever :D
It's loosers pick right? inb4 mc choosing tal'darim if he has to...
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On February 08 2012 19:28 29 fps wrote:im pretty sure i wrote a blog about this learn korean stuff...
oh hey, this is pretty cool
thanks :D
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On February 08 2012 19:26 Tsubbi wrote:
wouldnt cloaked banshee followup after cc first or 1 rax cc kill this build? protoss wouldn't even be able to scout that
Nope. That would be an automatic loss because with 3 nexus even if he lost ~20 probes he will have the observer out and just chrono x3 nexus and still be at an advantage.
The sad part is most people don't even realize that jjakji and other Terrans have to do ridiculous stuff like 15CC to even attempt a macro game, and then protoss simply takes a third nexus and is ahead and can STILL kill you with an attack...it's crazy to think anyone thinks this is normal for RTS. You should never be able to expand + straight up KILL your opponent when they have 3-5 bunkers up but protoss can do it...
On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it
Glad to see a common sense post from another pro here. No one is really willing to talk about balance at all (let alone in a live report thread) but if people do not see that it's insanely stupid for a protoss to be able to 2 base forcefield all-in z/p and still have their expo behind it in 0 danger...it's a bit crazy...
And yes people, it's insanely easy to do, even NA mid-masters protoss can execute this stuff.
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On February 08 2012 19:30 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:28 cyclone25 wrote:On February 08 2012 19:25 Darksoldierr wrote:On February 08 2012 19:23 cyclone25 wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 Heavenly wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 KiNGxXx wrote:
I don't get this. 3rd gets scouted, building bunkers and still the fight is not even close! A nexus is 400 minerals...on the other hand Jjaki went for double ebay, +1, and teched up to medivacs while only having one. And you suggest he shouldn't get upgrades or medivacs? Its gready play, like if toss would go for double forge / colo at the same time. You dont gain advantage with +1 if you has 2/3 times less unit, even if your ahead in tech How is that greedy when you scout Protoss on 3 bases? Next time he scouts a fast 3 base, he should get 5 bunkers? Or what exactly you think Jjakji should do. Yeah dude, let's balance whine and challenge LR readers to make a new strat to counteract a specific strat that was literally just debuted in the GSL. Two games versus an opponent who did almost exactly the same build (and almost always does the same thing) really shows imbalance.
Same build????
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On February 08 2012 19:29 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:26 djfoxmccloud wrote:
How is Parting PvP comapred to MC's ? MC has lowered his level in PvP by a gigantic margin, it's his worst matchup now. If Parting's any good at PvP he should win.
PvP is still MC's best match up O.o
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On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it
I was thinking the same when you were playing versus IdrA at IEM Final.
Just look at this, terran make 5 rax reaper press R R R R R and he can just go kill zerg. stop talking about balance or abusive play, because you were the guys abusing it at IEM. Thanks
This build is new, let the time to the terrans to adapt to it, he had 1 gate 3 nexus, just go fucking punish him.
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On February 08 2012 19:29 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:26 TheHova wrote:
A PvP in GSL Code S. Jesus christ. I can't even remember the last PvP i saw. That's because PvP is almost always completely forgettable.
I dunno, at least PvP has sick micro, like that JYP vs MC game in HSC4, Dual Sight.
ZvZ is boring as hell to watch.
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On February 08 2012 19:29 eYeball wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:28 Inflicted_ wrote:On February 08 2012 19:27 eYeball wrote:On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it But if Jjakji scouted the fast third he could punish him and maybe win the game outright? I wonder how it would've went if he went for a drop @ the 3rd during the push, which would've made it 2base vs 2base but Terran has a stronger army. Yeah that maybe could work as well. Don't know why people are so butthurt that Jjakji lost, if he had better scouting or maybe patrolling/hiding scv at third coming in at certains timings he would had saw that or a scan w/e.
Are you mental?!
He saw the fast third both times, build bunkers both times (only two the second time) and BARELY held on daybreak. After Metropolis I said he was being over-cautious with the triple bunker and it turns out dual bunker nearly got him killed. If he sent his first medivac and 8 army supply to the third he'd never have held his natural even with a full SCV pull.
Maybe you can say that build just needs some figuring out from Terran but other than cloaked banshee every game then what does Terran do?
And any semi competent Protoss would scout the banshee coming and not do that build.
On February 08 2012 19:32 vOkk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it I was thinking the same when you were playing versus IdrA at IEM Final. Just look at this, terran make 5 rax reaper press R R R R R and he can just go kill zerg. stop talking about balance or abusive play, because you were the guys abusing it at IEM. Thanks This build is new, let the time to the terrans to adapt to it, he had 1 gate 3 nexus, just go fucking punish him.
And then Reapers got nerfed to oblivion. So, you're saying the way we have to adapt to this is to have forcefields removed from the game?
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On February 08 2012 19:28 Medrea wrote:
Cloaked Banshees.
That is all.
Wow.
You're a god among men.
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lol @ the balance whining. TvP vs 1 gate nexus nexus with a 15OC is easy, just get a macro orbital nice and early and you stay ahead in econ EZ PZ without leaving yourself vulnerable in the slightest (unless your ganzi lol).
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Australia18228 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:31 icecreamlolz wrote:
so after watching 2 tosses win with totally different approaches to the matchup... do you really say that partings games were more entertaining?
Imo, PartinG's style is so much harder to do and still risky if done right, but much more entertaining and better if you execute extremely well. MC just likes to 2-base all-in because he knows that he stands a better chance of winning with it.
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On February 08 2012 19:31 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:29 iamthedave wrote:On February 08 2012 19:26 TheHova wrote:
A PvP in GSL Code S. Jesus christ. I can't even remember the last PvP i saw. That's because PvP is almost always completely forgettable. Oz vs InCa was quite an intense series/3rd game.
Kind of the exception which proves the rule though. Most of the time it's boring BO wins and 4 gate vs 4 gate which even the best casters struggle to make exciting.
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EPT
