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On February 08 2012 19:30 TheHova wrote:
Protoss actually start winning, getting past the Ro16 in GSL. And in comes all the whine again. It's like they're not allowed to win.
To be fair, it did -look- very imbalanced.
Not saying it was, and hell I was cheering for PartinG and am glad he won, but macro'ing to three bases and attacking a defensive 2base terran and tearing him apart just looks imba.
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Jjakji lost to HerO and now PartinG, must be his clutch matchup right now
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On February 08 2012 19:27 Noktix wrote:
God this thread is painful to read.
You mean to tell me if i take 3 Nexus off 1 gate and it goes unpunished i can make a powerful push after?! What is this madness?!?!
Try going 3 CC's off of 1 rax and then hitting a timing that quickly against toss. You would need to build several barracks and then wait for a factory + wait for a starport + macro up an army + walk across the map. Protoss doesn't need medivacs then they can just warp in across the map no problem. This match up is really protoss favoured atm no way to deny it.
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Its pretty common sense that big maps favor Protoss in every way. Every other race has to walk across the map, protoss just warps in instantly, map size does not matter. Punishing a quick 3rd is not as easy as putting up a pylon and warping in things, you actually have to walk across the map, which takes forever the bigger the maps get
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On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it
Im not a P player, but you should really wait and see how it develops. If this is how stuff still looks in 1-2months, with Ps stomping Ts and Zs all over the place, then yea I think we can agree it is too strong. But for now, wait and see, and let T/Z get a chance to deal with it.
Tbh, I only see a trend in Ps starting have an easier time against Ts lately. I really havent seen this happen at all vs Zs. 2base timings are risky/bad enough against Zs, and show me one game where a P takes a fast 3rd against a Z while also doing game ending damage on the attack.
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On February 08 2012 19:29 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:27 eYeball wrote:On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it But if Jjakji scouted the fast third he could punish him and maybe win the game outright? thats exactly what happened on metropolis. jjakji scouted in with a beatiful timing scv to dart in. but guess what, daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to re-actively punish this. thats just how the timings work. is also why every single toss picks daybreak or metropolis vs terran, cause its very toss favored
Just like you can say that Dual Site is very Terran favored. I don't see protoss being able to do this on any other map. Maybe Tal'Darim or Terminus, though the way people are wanting these maps it looks like toss will keep exploiting this style of play. Terran need to adapt to figure how to come out ahead/early pressure enough to come out with an advantage or even into the midgame.
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I really don't get it.
I really, really don't.
Does Protoss have to lose 95% of their games for people to be happy with the race? Seriously, if Protoss has even a shred of success, it's like the end of the world.
I think when people lose to Protoss they feel helpless or something. Nevermind the fact that it's arguably the least successful race in the entirety of SC2. Can't even allow Protoss to advance from a group without them being completely imbalanced.
Just amazing.
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Ahh, so I enter this LR thread and read back a few pages and see some people whining and hatin' on MC.....MC's crushing nerd skulls again I presume? 
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maybe building a bunker at the toss 3rd early on ?
toss wont have enough unit to kill it early on, and when he did, u know hes taking a 3rd. and u prepare for a 7gates attack.
the bunker may also slow down the 7-8gates.
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Its like Im going crazy. Did everyone forget that cloaked banshees are stealthed and 3 nexus and 8 gates have no observer??
Terran should be untouchable to that attack
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On February 08 2012 19:29 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:27 eYeball wrote:On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it But if Jjakji scouted the fast third he could punish him and maybe win the game outright? thats exactly what happened on metropolis. jjakji scouted in with a beatiful timing scv to dart in. but guess what, daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to re-actively punish this. thats just how the timings work. is also why every single toss picks daybreak or metropolis vs terran, cause its very toss favored
I agree that large maps are forgiving when it comes to some forms of very ambitious play. Still, even if JJakji could not reactively punish it right away, he failed to properly react. He didn't change the way he played the second game. Either you go a fast third yourself, or you go for some kind of heavy Ghost-based push (the way he did it the first game, but earlier, and possibly with SCVs since you don't plan to take your third anyway).
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Name of this song please?
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On February 08 2012 19:31 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:23 cyclone25 wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 Heavenly wrote:On February 08 2012 19:22 KiNGxXx wrote:
I don't get this. 3rd gets scouted, building bunkers and still the fight is not even close! A nexus is 400 minerals...on the other hand Jjaki went for double ebay, +1, and teched up to medivacs while only having one. And you suggest he shouldn't get upgrades or medivacs? a third nexus costs 400 minerals. parting went for MASSSS gateway units, no forge, no tech, no upgrades. just zealot/stalker/sentry. basically a 2base all-in with zero tech but spending 400minerals on a third nexus jakji got 2bases then made factory (150/100) starport (150/100) 2 engi bay (250) +1/+1 (200/200) and he made 1 medivac (100/100) which was out by then essentially, by the time partings attack hit, jakji had spent 750/400 on a single medivac. while parting spent 400 on a third nexus (which allowed him to spread out his probes for more efficient mining) with like 8gates for a massive attach with zero tech id say to counter this crap, there are probably several options from the terran. i say wait a bit and sooner or later terrans will figure out the proper way to play against these gateway pressure possibilities
The entire concept is stupid abusive and based around the power of warp gates/sentries though. It feels like the mechanic really needs to be re-looked at; it creates so many stupid situations where any defender's advantage is more than negated (see forcefields on ramps in PvZ).
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On February 08 2012 19:32 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:27 Noktix wrote:
God this thread is painful to read.
You mean to tell me if i take 3 Nexus off 1 gate and it goes unpunished i can make a powerful push after?! What is this madness?!?! Try going 3 CC's off of 1 rax and then hitting a timing that quickly against toss. You would need to build several barracks and then wait for a factory + wait for a starport + macro up an army + walk across the map. Protoss doesn't need medivacs then they can just warp in across the map no problem. This match up is really protoss favoured atm no way to deny it.
Wait, two totally different races cant do the exact same thing?! this is news to me!
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On February 08 2012 19:28 Seraphone wrote:
You have to love balance whiners. First day anyone does this build and already people are crying already. Perhaps wait until the mass of world class Korean Terran's have some time to figure out how to play vs this.
Might want to do some fact-checking. Parting has done this build several times and, as far as I know, has never lost with it.
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Not surprised Jjakji lost, HerO DESTROYED him in the IPL Fight Club
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On February 08 2012 19:32 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:29 iamthedave wrote:On February 08 2012 19:26 TheHova wrote:
A PvP in GSL Code S. Jesus christ. I can't even remember the last PvP i saw. That's because PvP is almost always completely forgettable. I dunno, at least PvP has sick micro, like that JYP vs MC game in HSC4, Dual Sight. ZvZ is boring as hell to watch.
That's kind of ironic since Z v Z early game is a complete micro fest, especially if there's a ling/bling phase.
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Stop whining. This is just a new build for Protoss. Obviously Jjakji didn't really know what to do and just went for his standard build. If Parting goes to ro8, I'd bet the build will be studied very hard by Terrans and some will find a way to counter it.
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On February 08 2012 19:28 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him.
well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute.
anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it You have to love balance whiners. First day anyone does this build and already people are crying already. Perhaps wait until the mass of world class Korean Terran's have some time to figure out how to play vs this. People said the same shit about 1-1-1, Protoss deathball vs Zerg, Mutalisks vs Protoss and countless other stuff and it was all figured out despite a bunch whiners crying imbalance. Please tell me which other Protoss are successful doing this? A Protoss hasn't won a GSL in 11 months.
You understand who you're labeling a 'balance whiner' right?
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On February 08 2012 19:33 Noktix wrote:
I really don't get it.
I really, really don't.
Does Protoss have to lose 95% of their games for people to be happy with the race? Seriously, if Protoss has even a shred of success, it's like the end of the world.
I think when people lose to Protoss they feel helpless or something. Nevermind the fact that it's arguably the least successful race in the entirety of SC2. Can't even allow Protoss to advance from a group without them being completely imbalanced.
Just amazing.
Nevermind SC2, Protoss is the leasst successful race in the entirety of StarCraft history.
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EPT
