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andaylin
United States10830 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:28 Darksoldierr wrote: Or hold without losing much workers, if you have already 1/1 or medivacs you gonnna roll him, toss has nothing but unupgraded GW units against stim / medivacs bio i heard forcefields were pretty good. | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6518 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:28 andaylin wrote: yes, while at the same time defending against the 8gate! so simple! lol, because the Toss has all 8 gates before his 3rd nexus is finished right? Terran has a huge timing window between 3rd nexus completing, getting up to 8 gates and then making an army. Hit in that timing Toss has nothing GG. | ||
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sCFade
307 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:26 artrea wrote: I feel a reasonable counter would be bunker at natural (but no CC) into 1-1-1, try to fake out protoss. Seen it work so many times even in GSL. Now, of course smart protoss might not fall for it. If the Protoss doesn't scout no-gas because you walled, then he can make a Zealot to run past the Bunker and see what's up. And also this build smashes any 1-1-1 that doesn't have Cloak, and is pretty much unscoutable as long as the Protoss is on top of you. Really, really, really hard to beat it. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:28 Zdrastochye wrote: You know what unit Jjakji could have made and instantly died to that early push? Any unit other than marines and ravens. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:26 djfoxmccloud wrote: How is Parting PvP comapred to MC's ? MC has lowered his level in PvP by a gigantic margin, it's his worst matchup now. If Parting's any good at PvP he should win. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:27 eYeball wrote: But if Jjakji scouted the fast third he could punish him and maybe win the game outright? thats exactly what happened on metropolis. jjakji scouted in with a beatiful timing scv to dart in. but guess what, daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to re-actively punish this. thats just how the timings work. is also why every single toss picks daybreak or metropolis vs terran, cause its very toss favored | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:28 cyclone25 wrote: How is that greedy when you scout Protoss on 3 bases? Next time he scouts a fast 3 base, he should get 5 bunkers? Or what exactly you think Jjakji should do. Yeah dude, let's balance whine and challenge LR readers to make a new strat to counteract a specific strat that was literally just debuted in the GSL. Two games versus an opponent who did almost exactly the same build (and almost always does the same thing) really shows imbalance. | ||
Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him. well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute. anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it As people have mentioned before, the build Parting used specifically countered the 15 cc because Jjakji can't pressure when Parting is on ONE GATE and 3 bases with 7 gates building because he has late medivacs. Thats right, 1 gate on 3 bases. So many builds could punish that. Parting's build worked so well because of the fact Jjakji cannot pressure at that time, and then he can just go crush him with his eco/production advantage. Pretty simple really, I'm surprised someone who understands the game on a 'deep' level like yourself can't see this. Considering your past as a Terran only player your comments are also incredibly ironic. | ||
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TheHova
United Kingdom2612 Posts
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klaxen
United States361 Posts
Did you guess ZvP? :O | ||
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ShivaN
United States933 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say Thank you! | ||
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andaylin
United States10830 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:29 bbQ4Aiur wrote: im afraid so, Jjikaji was not getting a fast 3rd after he scouted the building 3rd of protoss (he scouted it in both game before the nexus finished) yeah, because he was investing that money that should have went to the fast 3rd CC into bunkers so he wouldn't die to the mass gates followup. | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:29 MorroW wrote: thats exactly what happened on metropolis. jjakji scouted in with a beatiful timing scv to dart in. but guess what, daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to re-actively punish this. thats just how the timings work. is also why every single toss picks daybreak or metropolis vs terran, cause its very toss favored The only reason the build works is because it's against CC first. Seems to me that this is a perfect counter to that greedy build, similar to how Nexus first can be punished hard. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:23 cyclone25 wrote: And you suggest he shouldn't get upgrades or medivacs? a third nexus costs 400 minerals. parting went for MASSSS gateway units, no forge, no tech, no upgrades. just zealot/stalker/sentry. basically a 2base all-in with zero tech but spending 400minerals on a third nexus jakji got 2bases then made factory (150/100) starport (150/100) 2 engi bay (250) +1/+1 (200/200) and he made 1 medivac (100/100) which was out by then essentially, by the time partings attack hit, jakji had spent 750/400 on a single medivac. while parting spent 400 on a third nexus (which allowed him to spread out his probes for more efficient mining) with like 8gates for a massive attach with zero tech id say to counter this crap, there are probably several options from the terran. i say wait a bit and sooner or later terrans will figure out the proper way to play against these gateway pressure possibilities | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:29 iamthedave wrote: That's because PvP is almost always completely forgettable. Oz vs InCa was quite an intense series/3rd game. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36919 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:25 Drazerk wrote: This is all seeker's fault! -__-;; how? | ||
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icecreamlolz
205 Posts
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:25 MorroW wrote: just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him. well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute. anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it And I thought protoss was too strong vs terran only in lategame -_- Guess I'll just do 1/2base allins every game vs toss now!! | ||
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:29 MorroW wrote: thats exactly what happened on metropolis. jjakji scouted in with a beatiful timing scv to dart in. but guess what, daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to re-actively punish this. thats just how the timings work. is also why every single toss picks daybreak or metropolis vs terran, cause its very toss favored He scouted it just as it was about to complete both times, which is also the same time the gates finish. The window starts a fair while before then, when all of those things begin building. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:26 artrea wrote: I feel a reasonable counter would be bunker at natural (but no CC) into 1-1-1, try to fake out protoss. Seen it work so many times even in GSL. Now, of course smart protoss might not fall for it. It's incredibly easy to defend a 1-1-1 nowadays, especially on a big map like that. Terran will be behind usually after a 1-1-1, and even if they are on even grounds, guess what happens when it gets to late game? That's right, Protoss has a huge advantage again... | ||
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