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On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this.
please tell me that this guy's trolling...
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On February 13 2012 14:02 soLremarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:59 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 13 2012 13:56 Arcanne wrote:On February 13 2012 13:56 xSixGeneralHan wrote:On February 13 2012 13:53 mahi29 wrote:On February 13 2012 13:52 chrissummers wrote:On February 13 2012 13:48 Eschaton wrote:On February 13 2012 13:41 durza wrote:
Im starting to hope idra just retires, it doesn't seem like he has enough respect for the game or for his peers to be successful at the level he thinks he should be. This is simply sad. I just wish he'd do what he wants to do, go to college if thats it, or be a serious pro gamer if thats what he wants to do. But I can't stand to watch someone spend their life doing something while at the same time talking shit about how that thing is worthless "SC2 is a terrible game" etc. . If money is your only goal, you're not going to have any joy in it, and you're not going to do well against those that do. he sort of is forced to play sc2. college? come on, idra does not fit there, I could never see him actually writing term papers etc. that is not who he is, he only does things on his conditions or not at all. that only works as long as you are in a leader position. if you are one of many, that mindset only leads to negative things. which is why korea is not the place to be for him. I thought he got a full-ride to some engineering college (forget the name and too lazy to look it up right now) and turned it down to go to Korea to play BW? RPI good school ohh shit bm sarcasm .....he had a scholarship to study physics at RPI prior to deciding to play BW professionally in Korea. What bm? What sarcasm? It's sarcasm because RPI is not a very difficult school to get into (or get a scholarship from), hence, he was being sarcastic when he said 'good school.' Arcanne was referring to his sarcasm as bm, probably in a joking manner cuz Arcanne is a former xSix guy himself
Not sure what you're on about, RPI is one of the top engineering schools in the country.
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Is Alive's 2 reactored factory play considered cheese or a 2-base all-in or just simply meant to apply pressure and gain map control? He built like 14 hellions. Just curious
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On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this.
It's not the game balance that is the problem. Idra tilted and played very very poorly.
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On February 13 2012 14:15 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:14 Shikyo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Because alive played to win and idra played to lose You don't know that.. Hell 6 pool is becoming more effective vs Terrans now then it ever was in the past, given how a lot of T are building raxes in random places in their bases/on the map to try and trick their opponent into thinking it is proxy 11/11..
I do know it actually.
Knowledge can be achieved with logic alone, in fact. If Idra stated "i threw the games" he could be lying. If I look at atlas there could be a mistake. My teacher could be wrong about things he teaches. What is knowledge, anyway? Do you just believe in nothing and keep every option open?
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Assuming IdrA qualifies for IPL4 (which seems unlikely more and more) or is invited, I hope aLive fucks the absolute shit out of him again.
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On February 13 2012 14:15 Megabuster123 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this. Cheese is part of the game, blame the players not the game. .
I know cheese is part of the game, but why then would we blame players for cheesing?
That was the whole point of my post. Blame Blizzard, not Idra and Alive for the viability of the these build orders...
On February 13 2012 14:17 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this. It's not the game balance that is the problem. Idra tilted and played very very poorly.
I didn't say game balance was the problem. I was stating that cheese is part of the game and unless Blizzard decides to make it so cheese isn't viable, we're going to see show matches like this.
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On February 13 2012 14:18 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:15 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this. Cheese is part of the game, blame the players not the game. . I know cheese is part of the game, but why then would we blame players for cheesing? That was the whole point of my post. Blame Blizzard, not Idra and Alive for the viability of the these build orders...
Blame Idra for being shit at early game defence and blame Alive for playing like a bit of a prick.
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On February 13 2012 14:18 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:15 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this. Cheese is part of the game, blame the players not the game. . I know cheese is part of the game, but why then would we blame players for cheesing? That was the whole point of my post. Blame Blizzard, not Idra and Alive for the viability of the these build orders...
What the... you know and you still do the inverse?
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On February 13 2012 14:12 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:09 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games. You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins. Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese. No I'm not. I don't get how you think Alive's strategies were comparable to Idra's. Alive's have transitions and if executed well (as a Code S Terran would) WILL do some type of damage. Idra's has no transition and even if executed perfectly has almost no chance of working vs a Code S Terran. They are completely different.
I don't think they were comparable at all. Idra threw those games because he didn't want to play a show match against a player who is going to cheese every game. It was a show match, not the MLG finals. They are for small amounts of cash and mostly fun for the players and the fans. Alive decided he was going to cheese and all in for the first two game. Idra then decided Alive could have the $400 if it meant that much to him.
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On February 13 2012 14:18 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:15 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this. Cheese is part of the game, blame the players not the game. . I know cheese is part of the game, but why then would we blame players for cheesing? That was the whole point of my post. Blame Blizzard, not Idra and Alive for the viability of the these build orders... Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:17 Bagration wrote:On February 13 2012 14:14 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Exactly. If we want show matches that showcase macro games, Blizzard needs to balance cheese out of the game. Otherwise we'll see show matches like this. It's not the game balance that is the problem. Idra tilted and played very very poorly. I didn't say game balance was the problem. I was stating that cheese is part of the game and unless Blizzard decides to make it so cheese isn't viable, we're going to see show matches like this.
We should not blame players for cheesing unless they are constantly cheesing. No good player cheese consistently, but all top players right now are willing and occasionally cheese.
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I'm not here to defend Idra - throwing the last game (and possibly the one before) is pretty pathetic. But it's obvious that he showed up to play a showmatch at first with two hatch first builds. Alive cheesed him twice which, while legitimate, is maybe not the sort of game Idra hoped for in a showmatch. Once again I'm not defending Idra, but you've gotta wonder whether Alive was there to give a show or not too.
Interesting to see this showmatch back to back with Incontrol and Destiny especially. Those two didn't play the best series, but you could see that they were making an effort to make it interesting/entertaining (2nd to last game is the best example). I wish Alive/Idra would do the same.
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On February 13 2012 14:16 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:15 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:14 Shikyo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Because alive played to win and idra played to lose You don't know that.. Hell 6 pool is becoming more effective vs Terrans now then it ever was in the past, given how a lot of T are building raxes in random places in their bases/on the map to try and trick their opponent into thinking it is proxy 11/11.. I don't know for sure, I play Protoss, but I imagine that 6 pool is a hard counter to proxy 11/11.
The first game Idra 6 pooled was vs a proxy rax. You can't possibly think he thought it would work the next game.
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Idra's a overprivileged cry baby. At least when he put up games that were entertaining to watch I could overlook that fact. Now he's gonna resort to oh **** I lost 2 matches in a BO7, I think I'll hand over the last two games with "just enough to get by" and not get my ass chewed by NASL or EG team coach. I hope he produces more games of this quality, because poor showings will come back to bite a pro player in the ass. He'll fall off the radar, maybe not quickly, but eventually. Then when you utter the name Idra people will either bust out in a laugh or ask you "who's that?". If you ask me, pro gaming of any kind should be looked upon as a privilege and when you can bring down enough money to pay your bills and stash some into savings and still have a little bit left over for you at the end of the month, well, I'd say that is pretty damn cool.
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Help! I'm so confused! Who are the fanboys - those who claim that Idra threw the games on purpose, or those who claim that this is the best he can do?
User was warned for this post
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On February 13 2012 14:17 Leifish wrote:
Assuming IdrA qualifies for IPL4 (which seems unlikely more and more) or is invited, I hope aLive fucks the absolute shit out of him again.
This is the best post in this thread.
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On February 13 2012 14:21 Beakyboo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:16 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 14:15 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:14 Shikyo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:13 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Why the hell would they "take action" against Idra and not Alive. They both did 2 allins that you can only win if your opponent happens to pick the wrong BO. Because alive played to win and idra played to lose You don't know that.. Hell 6 pool is becoming more effective vs Terrans now then it ever was in the past, given how a lot of T are building raxes in random places in their bases/on the map to try and trick their opponent into thinking it is proxy 11/11.. I don't know for sure, I play Protoss, but I imagine that 6 pool is a hard counter to proxy 11/11. The first game Idra 6 pooled was vs a proxy rax. You can't possibly think he thought it would work the next game.
Alive maka raxed in the 3 previous games so its not all that crazy he would do it for a 4th time.
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there's a big difference between all in (sacrificing everything for all reward) versus risky builds (sacrificing something for high reward)
none of what aLive did today was all in.
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United States23455 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:12 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:09 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games. You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins. Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese. No I'm not. I don't get how you think Alive's strategies were comparable to Idra's. Alive's have transitions and if executed well (as a Code S Terran would) WILL do some type of damage. Idra's has no transition and even if executed perfectly has almost no chance of working vs a Code S Terran. They are completely different. I don't think they were comparable at all. Idra threw those games because he didn't want to play a show match against a player who is going to cheese every game. It was a show match, not the MLG finals. They are for small amounts of cash and mostly fun for the players and the fans. Alive decided he was going to cheese and all in for the first two game. Idra then decided Alive could have the $400 if it meant that much to him.
He threw games because he was tilted. Come if, if he knows cheese is coming, why doesn't he try to defend it? If he can't defend it, then it's Idra's fault for not being able to defend said cheese. Alive couldn't cheese DongRaeGu four times in a row. If DRG lost the first two games to cheese, he would have just defended the cheese and rocked Alive's shit. Idra threw in the white flag and gave up. If this was a first time occurrence, then maybe you can say Idra isn't at fault, but this is Idra. This is just one in many instances where this has happened.
And yes, $400 is important. Why the hell wouldn't it be important? Just because it isn't $5,000 doesn't mean that Alive should be chastised for wanting to win the money.
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On February 13 2012 14:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:12 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:09 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games. You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins. Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese. No I'm not. I don't get how you think Alive's strategies were comparable to Idra's. Alive's have transitions and if executed well (as a Code S Terran would) WILL do some type of damage. Idra's has no transition and even if executed perfectly has almost no chance of working vs a Code S Terran. They are completely different. I don't think they were comparable at all. Idra threw those games because he didn't want to play a show match against a player who is going to cheese every game. It was a show match, not the MLG finals. They are for small amounts of cash and mostly fun for the players and the fans. Alive decided he was going to cheese and all in for the first two game. Idra then decided Alive could have the $400 if it meant that much to him.
OMG IDRA IS SUCH A philanthropist!! WHATANICEGUY HE IS!!!
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EPT
