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On February 13 2012 13:53 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:35 bennyaus wrote:On February 13 2012 13:32 wklbishop wrote:On February 13 2012 13:25 tree.hugger wrote:On February 13 2012 13:20 89andy wrote:
blind countered .... what shit luck for idra IdrA really has the worst luck of any progamer. It's incredible the amount of times that people luckbox wins off of him with blind counters, dumb strategies, and just by playing poorly, but by managing to play a little above the level that IdrA is playing at that given day. Incredible that even despite all these handicaps, he's managed to win IEM Guangzhou, the ASUS ROG Stars Invite, MLG DC, and that he made the first three GSL seasons. Just think of what he'd have been able to accomplish if he wasn't so unlucky! He is lucky IMO. The fact that he has these weird, funny, raging stories and all this weird luck ingame as you described it around him attracts viewers and thus invites to these tournaments in the first place. I mean... who the hell gets THAT many chances at so many tournaments? (MC maybe?) His terrible luck is actually amazing for his career, at least financially. You missed the joke, champ. The game has some limited luck, but IdrA's "bad luck" is him being a bad player. He is actually one of the luckiest players in the world because he gets invites and a salary based on the fact he gets viewers due to his hype. He has such a huge hype because he was the best BW foreigner at the SC2 release, and everyone always spoke about him. However, based on results, an objective fan can see that he is just now an average foreigner who doesn't gg. Worse than that, he is actively disrespectful of players who are better than him. He's not at all a bad player. His mid-game is incredible, and his late game/macro is world class. He has and still does struggle with stopping early game aggression, and it's shame. A while back I noticed that he had gotten much better at stopping styles that revolve around early pressure, but his mind-set seems to have taken a turn for the worst once again. Instead of identifying the different kinds of cheese/pressure and figuring out how to stop it, he looks at it as cheesy bullshit that isn't worth playing out. On ladder, that can make sense here and there, but he almost NEVER puts in the effort to stop these rushes, so when it comes to him in a serious match setting, he fails to deal with it appropriately. It's a real shame because this is the one gaping hole in his game. Once IdrA figures out how to properly deal with all of this early-game non-sense and safely make it to at least the mid-game 90% of the time, he will be back to the Code S level player we once knew. The return to the EG house will help him get his mind refocused, but the lack of crazy cheese and early pressure found only on Korean ladder will hurt.
And while IdrA has been struggling for months to get back to his previous Code S level, everyone else has been improving tremendously. The GSL that IdrA did well in is not the GSL of today. There was no MMA, no DRG. Half of the competitors of yesteryear are 'has-beens', for lack of a better term, and the ones that remain are much better than before. Is IdrA at his historical peak really capable of competing in Code S nowadays? And even if so, how far from that peak is he now?
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On February 13 2012 14:07 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote:
I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites. This was never about using a cheese strat. This was about using a strat twice in a row that showed that the player did not want to win nor show good games, but instead just get out of there as quickly as possible with 100 dollars for minimal effort. He 6 pooled again. What was the chance of him 6 pooling again? That almost never happens. Same reason when there's a penalty shootout a soccer player kicks the same side twice as a tactic agains the goalkeeper.
If you think he 6 pooled twice in a row after being down 0-2 as some sort of mind game you are delusional.
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On February 13 2012 13:59 r4pture wrote:
I hope this kills some of the hype about how good Idra apparently is. He got stomped out of GSL and now can't even be bothered to play a showmatch, just take the 100 bucks and run.
As I said before, I simply don't understand how this emotional manchild has fans. Its completely beyond me.
User was warned for this post
I have to agree with this. I think he's overrated, but that's my opinion. Although he does have some impressive tournament results (MLG Providence for example).
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On February 13 2012 14:04 Rasun wrote:
Someone in the other thread made the statement that "it isn't the players job to entertain us", and I wanted to express how wrong that is in case they read this. Sponsors pay the bills because the organizations advertise for them when people tune in to watch their content. People tune in to watch their content to be entertained because we are into whatever content the organization is putting out. If players do this shit, which is not entertaining, and people stop tuning in then sponsors stop paying for it and goodbye organizations who give out prize money to players, provide ROI for teams and sponsors, and entertain us with their content. So yes, it is the players job to entertain us, that is what professional sports is, entertainment.
No it's not their job to entertain you.
If they fail to entertain you then that particular player may not be asked to do these particular types of competitions again, but that's the penalty. Players shouldn't be penalized for doing whatever strategies they want in any other form than not being invited again.
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On February 13 2012 13:58 seffer wrote:
idras punishment is fan disapproval, that's enough. no need for the tournament to punish him since he didnt break any rules. dont like him, dont watch him. simple as that.
idra's punishment depends on whether NASL decides to do something about it (eg: ban/revoke seed). simple as that. oh by the way NASL is not breaking any "rules" by doing that.
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On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games.
You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins.
Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese.
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On February 13 2012 14:07 Raambo11 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote:
I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites. OMFG do you guys seriously not get it? Look, their is a difference between cheesing, and throwing a match purposely. If you cheese to win the game YOU ARE NOT THROWING THE MATCH.
Even beyond that, Idra didn't GG in any of the games. He was invited to a paid showmatch to play a video-game against a great player and basically forfeited. Who bms in a showmatch, seriously?
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On February 13 2012 14:07 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:05 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? because it's a build that is a reasonable opener in TvZ because most competitive zergs go hatch first? That doesn't mean it's not a cheese...>_> A lot of zergs go 1 base roach blind because Toss always open forge nowadays. It's viable...but it's still cheese...>_> two base hellion at 9 minutes is not cheese anyway you swing it. It was idras fault for not overlord scouting it or even ling scouting the front unitl it was way to late.
Idra didn't scout because he's an idiot, but I don't see how that's not a cheesy build...>_>
If those helions get stopped the game is over and Idra wins...>_>
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On February 13 2012 14:08 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:07 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 13 2012 14:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote:
I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites. This was never about using a cheese strat. This was about using a strat twice in a row that showed that the player did not want to win nor show good games, but instead just get out of there as quickly as possible with 100 dollars for minimal effort. He 6 pooled again. What was the chance of him 6 pooling again? That almost never happens. Same reason when there's a penalty shootout a soccer player kicks the same side twice as a tactic agains the goalkeeper. If you think he 6 pooled twice in a row after being down 0-2 as some sort of mind game you are delusional.
You have no proof.
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On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it?
No, he's kinda right. Double 11 racks is about as cheesy as it gets for Terran. The only way to make it even more cheesy would be if he pulled all his SCVs at some point.
Think of it this way, swap games 3&4 with games 1&2.
IdrA 6pools in game one: Oh well. Sucks it didn't work. Sick sick defense by alive.
6pool in game 2: Tried to fool alive by doing the same build. Scouted and failed.
Game 3: Hatch first. Lose to cheese.
Game 4: Hatch first. Lose to semi-all-in.
I'm not going to pretend that the 6pools weren't a result of IdrA being on tilt. They likely were (maybe not the crossfire game, but Dual Sight almost certainly). However, my point is that I kinda agree with BronzeKnee. There is a double standard here.
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On February 13 2012 14:07 Canucklehead wrote:
Idra does this stuff because he knows he has the most loyal fans ever and they won't care about any of this. He will still get 10k viewers on his stream no matter what he does. He will still get invited to every top tourney that has invites. Nothing will change Idra because there's never any consequences to his actions. He probably gained more fans because of this.
I've become more of a fan of Idra after this. I think we all wanted to see a good show match with macro games, but Alive came to cheese. Idra said I can flip coins too, but he wasn't as lucky, and that the was show match.
I don't understand why everyone is blaming Idra. Alive shares 50% of the blame. Again imagine if Idra holds both of Alive's cheeses and it was best of three, Alive wouldn't be getting crap right now Idra is getting. People would be talking about how "smart" Alive played vs a macro player like Idra, and that maybe next time the coin flips his way...
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The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
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Lol SC2 drama 
IdrA cheesing the third game was justified. However, the final game was an obvious throw away. None the less, EG can deal with IdrA however they please, however, this showmatch was funny as hell and was quite entertaining.
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On February 13 2012 14:10 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:08 Itsmedudeman wrote:On February 13 2012 14:07 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 13 2012 14:05 Itsmedudeman wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote:
I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites. This was never about using a cheese strat. This was about using a strat twice in a row that showed that the player did not want to win nor show good games, but instead just get out of there as quickly as possible with 100 dollars for minimal effort. He 6 pooled again. What was the chance of him 6 pooling again? That almost never happens. Same reason when there's a penalty shootout a soccer player kicks the same side twice as a tactic agains the goalkeeper. If you think he 6 pooled twice in a row after being down 0-2 as some sort of mind game you are delusional. You have no proof.
I don't need a written statement from idra himself, it's called logic.
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On February 13 2012 14:09 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games. You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins. Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese.
No I'm not. I don't get how you think Alive's strategies were comparable to Idra's. Alive's have transitions and if executed well (as a Code S Terran would) WILL do some type of damage. Idra's has no transition and even if executed perfectly has almost no chance of working vs a Code S Terran. They are completely different.
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On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Will George Bush get tried for crimes against Humanity?
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On February 13 2012 14:07 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:59 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 13:53 BlindSight754 wrote:
Idra didn't GG IN ANY OF THE GAMES! Anyone talking about that part as well? I don't GG opponents that do stupid all ins that win them games either. Does that make me a bad person? Are you getting payed 6 figures to play? Were you invited to a showmatch? The very least you could do is do the bare minimum standard SC courtesy of typing GG.
One could argue that Idra is getting 6 figures to not GG every once and a while.
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On February 13 2012 14:10 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? No, he's kinda right. Double 11 racks is about as cheesy as it gets for Terran. The only way to make it even more cheesy would be if he pulled all his SCVs at some point. Think of it this way, swap games 3&4 with games 1&2. IdrA 6pools in game one: Oh well. Sucks it didn't work. Sick sick defense by alive. 6pool in game 2: Tried to fool alive by doing the same build. Scouted and failed. Game 3: Hatch first. Lose to cheese. Game 4: Hatch first. Lose to semi-all-in. I'm not going to pretend that the 6pools weren't a result of IdrA being on tilt. They likely were (maybe not the crossfire game, but Dual Sight almost certainly). However, my point is that I kinda agree with BronzeKnee. There is a double standard here.
Except the difference is, 11 11 rax doesn't get insta-beat by a simple, standard wallin. In fact, there really isn't a hardcounter to it. 15 hatch is super standard and something Idra would do 100% of the time unless he was fuming and 6pooling, and against 15hatch it's going to come down to micro and skill. Even if it got beat back, he still has the ability to transition out of it.
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Australia1833 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:10 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? No, he's kinda right. Double 11 racks is about as cheesy as it gets for Terran. The only way to make it even more cheesy would be if he pulled all his SCVs at some point. Think of it this way, swap games 3&4 with games 1&2. IdrA 6pools in game one: Oh well. Sucks it didn't work. Sick sick defense by alive. 6pool in game 2: Tried to fool alive by doing the same build. Scouted and failed. Game 3: Hatch first. Lose to cheese. Game 4: Hatch first. Lose to semi-all-in. I'm not going to pretend that the 6pools weren't a result of IdrA being on tilt. They likely were (maybe not the crossfire game, but Dual Sight almost certainly). However, my point is that I kinda agree with BronzeKnee. There is a double standard here.
Hey guys,
Let's construe the truth in such a manner so that IdrA seems like less of a bad guy.
Signed,
Irrational fans.
Stop comparing 2base double reactor hellion with 6pool, and even 11/11 can't be compared with 6pool. 11/11 at least has a history of working and makes it a decent choice in a BoX series.
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On February 13 2012 14:12 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:11 WilDMousE wrote:
The questions now are:
Will NASL take actions against Idra's behaviour?
If so, which action will NASL take?
Future Idra reaction?
Will George Bush get tried for crimes against Humanity?
Better question is did Clinton inhale and did idra sixpoll?
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EPT
