hellions are some of the cheesiest shit in the game. If you don't see them for one second your whole mineral line is raped and its GG. Thats what happened in inori vs. kas. Basically relying on opponents to not see it and catching them off guard.
On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote: I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude.
There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts.
Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous.
It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games.
Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese?
Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games.
Nestea would like a word with you. In before "completely different situation".
Some people are so weird and have a hard time realizing analogies and differences.
11, 11 two rax is like a serve and volley play of a tennis player. he tries to kill you fast or at least pressure you, so he will win the point/match.
does anyone claim the serve-and-volley player is "cheesing" cause he is not staying back at the base line? So Stefan Edberg and Boris Becker were worthless cheesers?
To use the same imagery: Idra served and then stood still, refusing to move. Either the serve is an ace or he loses.
On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote: I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude.
There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts.
Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous.
It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games.
Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese?
because it's a build that is a reasonable opener in TvZ because most competitive zergs go hatch first?
That doesn't mean it's not a cheese...>_>
A lot of zergs go 1 base roach blind because Toss always open forge nowadays. It's viable...but it's still cheese...>_>
On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote: I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites.
This was never about using a cheese strat. This was about using a strat twice in a row that showed that the player did not want to win nor show good games, but instead just get out of there as quickly as possible with 100 dollars for minimal effort.
On February 13 2012 13:47 JWD wrote: I wonder if tourneys will ever start striking agreements with players that require the players not to throw any games if they want to get paid for their appearances
That should absolutely happen. The problem then becomes what is a thrown game?
* Naniwa Proberushing? Definatly. * IdrA 6Pooling on Dual Sight? Definatly. * IdrA 6Pooling on Crossfire? Possibly.
* 4Gating in PvP on a map with a Ramp? * Not 4Gating on Tal'Darim in PvP?
As you can see the slope is slippery and where do you draw the line?
umm it's really not that complicated. i'm sure idra will tell you he threw the game.
This is such a terrible mindset.
No strategy no matter how stupid should be met with punishment for the players. Unless Idra is in a match fixing scandal, he or anyone else should be able to do whatever the fuck they want in a game.
what even both replying and spewing incoherent nonsense? throwing a game does not imply match fixing. when did i talk about punishment? it has nothing to do with my mindset. go ask anyone Idra has contact with and he'll tell you he didn't care about the outcome of the game.
On February 13 2012 14:03 curtisfogle wrote: Alive cheesed twice, Idra cheesed twice. I don't see a problem here other than zerg cheeses aren't as successful. xD
Alive cheesed to win. Idra cheesed to get the games over with. I don't see how you could possibly interpret it any other way. Six-pool vs terran is not at ALL a viable strategy. It only wins if the Terran fast-expands... and Alive had already shown that he was not going to play a macro game. And don't even get me started on how unviable it is to do twice. IdrA simply wanted to get the games over with so he could get his money and go to sleep.
On February 13 2012 14:01 [EMP]ArtOfWar wrote: InControl fighting Destiny.
THAT was a showmatch.
Idra vs Alive was painful to watch...
Thats a good point. The contrast between these two showmatches tonight were staggering and likely adding to both my and other peoples frustration of the situation.
iNcontrol v. Destiny, two players who are shit on for only being "personalities" put on an epic showmatch, a back and forth struggle, awesome gameplay, and a good interview afterwards, all while going through the whole bo7 ending 4-3.
Alive v. Idra, two players held high, Idea being hled as one of the best NA has...and well....I don't really need to say much on that.
On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote: I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites.
This was never about using a cheese strat. This was about using a strat twice in a row that showed that the player did not want to win nor show good games, but instead just get out of there as quickly as possible with 100 dollars for minimal effort.
He 6 pooled again. What was the chance of him 6 pooling again? That almost never happens.
Same reason when there's a penalty shootout a soccer player kicks the same side twice as a tactic agains the goalkeeper.
On February 13 2012 14:03 SC2NeCro wrote: I love how nobody is talking about how aLive CHEESED HIM FIRST in the showmatch.
Hypocrites.
OMFG do you guys seriously not get it? Look, their is a difference between cheesing, and throwing a match purposely. If you cheese to win the game YOU ARE NOT THROWING THE MATCH.
On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote: I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude.
There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts.
Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous.
It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games.
Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese?
Ever since Terrans figured a way to do damage and transition out of it. And yes, a Code S Terran would know these things.
On February 13 2012 13:41 Jibba wrote: I actually wish NASL had decided to cancel the show match and find 2 other players instead, and issue a statement as to why it wasn't worth showing.
yeah, this is a great idea. if the games were pre-played there is really no excuse for putting the fans through this...we could have done with a 2-minute explanation instead of having to watch lings die outside a Terran wall. NASL seems to be pretending this was a "real series?
Are you blaming NASL because IdrA had a hissy fit? They announce the showmatch beforehand, how is it even slightly professional to start a broadcast with "oh, well IdrA vs aLive was shitty so we're going to show something else instead".
I swear to god NASL get accused of stuff that doesn't even come close to rational thought so often.
You make a forum post earlier in the day that says
Today's IdrA vs. aLive show match has been cancelled. The reason being that IdrA did not put forth a reasonable effort and the games are not enjoyable for anyone. Instead, we will be showing you a live match between aLive and Sheth!
It's not really a blame issue. It's just something that they could've done a bit better, with some quick thinking. Not really a major knock against NASL.
To be honest, NASL's Sunday Showmatches couldn't have hoped for a better explosion of publicity.
It's short term publicity. If they stand up for themselves and enact some discipline, they I might be more inclined to keep watching.
Why would you stop watching? They had great casters and great production, and just because 1 player decided to give up after game 1 does not mean you have to stop enjoying the show.
NASL isn't part of my normal watching rotation (nor is SC2 anymore, quite frankly.) IdrA's dropout doesn't take away from NASL in my eyes, but if they react to it I'd gain more respect for them and would be more inclined to watch.
This sums up how I feel about the situation pretty well. NASL did nothing wrong, but they have a chance to do something right. If they choose to keep IdrA because he draws a crowd I probably won't bother watching even when there is nothing else to tune into.
Idra does this stuff because he knows he has the most loyal fans ever and they won't care about any of this. He will still get 10k viewers on his stream no matter what he does. He will still get invited to every top tourney that has invites. Nothing will change Idra because there's never any consequences to his actions. He probably gained more fans because of this.
On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote: I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude.
There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts.
Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous.
It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games.
Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese?
because it's a build that is a reasonable opener in TvZ because most competitive zergs go hatch first?
That doesn't mean it's not a cheese...>_>
A lot of zergs go 1 base roach blind because Toss always open forge nowadays. It's viable...but it's still cheese...>_>
two base hellion at 9 minutes is not cheese anyway you swing it. It was idras fault for not overlord scouting it or even ling scouting the front unitl it was way to late.
On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote: I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude.
There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts.
Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous.
Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it?
You can play Poker and win with "legit" strats, or you can win with luck. Alive was playing extremely risky, if you scout what he is doing and respond properly, you easily defeat it. He was going to need Idra to not respond and not scout it to win. He was lucky Idra did neither well.
Now you could argue that since he won, the ends justify the means, and thus he looks brilliant, but what if he lost both of those games? Would you say "Except Idra was using legitimate strategies and Alive was all-inning and doing a bad job of it?"
Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect?
Risky and risky... using the poker argument, that'd be the equal of playing super aggressive head-to-head when the opponent plays 20% of his hands.
I seen a flustered player which happens in all sports. All im saying is atleast he played out all the matches he said he would as far as i can see it he kept his word. And if he streams tonight 99.9% of everyone here will watch him 6 pool people on the ladder if thats what hes doing and then go do it on the ladder your self and you play protoss.
On February 13 2012 14:01 [EMP]ArtOfWar wrote: InControl fighting Destiny.
THAT was a showmatch.
Idra vs Alive was painful to watch...
And I did not watch inc vs destiny cause I had to do something, so I decided to watch idra vs alive instead because it would render better games............... oooonly if I knew.....................................
try and catch the VOD's if you can because that series had everything, even carriers
Aw man... that's why I'm not high masters in SC2, poor decision making! hahahaha
Ahwell, everyone has their opinions, but for some reason regardless of opinions - zerg isn't performing as shitty as idra makes it look.He's simply performing substandard. Maybe playing against more foreigners would boost his confidence so he could trust in his ability to make a come-back within a Bo-X.. Who knows, for now: no more showmatches, no more tournaments, just training.
EPT
