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United States22883 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:21 Poffel wrote:
Help! I'm so confused! Who are the fanboys - those who claim that Idra threw the games on purpose, or those who claim that this is the best he can do?
The ones who compare IdrA's cheese to aLive's cheese. The viability of what aLive did is tenfold higher than 6 pooling. A single 6 pool can occasionally lock a win against an unsuspecting opponent, two is just throwing matches.
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On February 13 2012 14:12 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:09 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games. You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins. Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese. No I'm not. I don't get how you think Alive's strategies were comparable to Idra's. Alive's have transitions and if executed well (as a Code S Terran would) WILL do some type of damage. Idra's has no transition and even if executed perfectly has almost no chance of working vs a Code S Terran. They are completely different.
Oh so Idra should have opened with the "eco" 7 pool and transition into 2 base Mutas?
Alive's builds have transitions, but if they do no damage, he is being BM if he doesn't tap out.
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On February 13 2012 14:12 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:10 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? No, he's kinda right. Double 11 racks is about as cheesy as it gets for Terran. The only way to make it even more cheesy would be if he pulled all his SCVs at some point. Think of it this way, swap games 3&4 with games 1&2. IdrA 6pools in game one: Oh well. Sucks it didn't work. Sick sick defense by alive. 6pool in game 2: Tried to fool alive by doing the same build. Scouted and failed. Game 3: Hatch first. Lose to cheese. Game 4: Hatch first. Lose to semi-all-in. I'm not going to pretend that the 6pools weren't a result of IdrA being on tilt. They likely were (maybe not the crossfire game, but Dual Sight almost certainly). However, my point is that I kinda agree with BronzeKnee. There is a double standard here. Hey guys, Let's construe the truth in such a manner so that IdrA seems like less of a bad guy. Signed, Irrational fans. Stop comparing 2base double reactor hellion with 6pool, and even 11/11 can't be compared with 6pool. 11/11 at least has a history of working and makes it a decent choice in a BoX series.
Nobody is comparing a 6pool to a double reactor hellion.
Hey guys,
Let's read so far into a post that we can start making shit up.
Signed,
The Angry Ignoramus
Oh look.... I can do that too.
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On February 13 2012 13:44 B00ts wrote:
If I was sponsering IdrA, I would be livid.
Exactly. People who sponsor stuff have to work really hard to make the money. You don't pay those money to yourself, you don't pay the employees, and instead decide to give it to a sponsored player and get THAT in return? I imagine that would be infuriating.
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Any player that wins against Idra is screwed it seems. Alive getting bashed for a 2base helion push.. Damn him! And his dirty normal game pressure tactics! He should be banned. From never playing idra again! But against the rest of the world he seems to be a pretty respected player.
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Lucky beat MMA with 2 6 pools recently. Losira beat Marineking with a 6 pool. I didn't watch the series so I'm not going to say that IdrA thought he was going to win but it definitely isn't a game throwing strategy..
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On February 13 2012 14:15 Dubzex wrote:
I don't understand why people keep inviting Idra to do showmatches knowing full well that he will give you an anticlimactic series with a minimum of 1 ragequit without fail.
Because, unfortunately, there's a mix of fans, haters, and popcorn-eaters that watch him, so they get ridiculous view counts. You can debate what it does to a circuit's credibility when something like this happens, but the bottom line is just that: it makes sense for their bottom line.
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On February 13 2012 14:23 Chop-Chopin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:44 B00ts wrote:
If I was sponsering IdrA, I would be livid. Exactly. People who sponsor stuff have to work really hard to make the money. You don't pay those money to yourself, you don't pay the employees, and instead decide to give it to a sponsored player and get THAT in return? I imagine that would be infuriating.
Why? I'd still get to claim that 10,000 people watched a guy I sponsor. Now you can go into the whole philosophical debate of whether anyone actually buys products that SC2 professional players actually sponsor but Idra's responsibly to his sponsors is to get their names out there and he does.
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United States97277 Posts
Grats aLive on an easy $400 I guess :D
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On February 13 2012 14:23 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:12 bennyaus wrote:On February 13 2012 14:10 Mr Showtime wrote:On February 13 2012 14:00 wanghis wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. Except Alive was using legitimate strategies and IdrA was 6 pooling while doing a bad job of it? No, he's kinda right. Double 11 racks is about as cheesy as it gets for Terran. The only way to make it even more cheesy would be if he pulled all his SCVs at some point. Think of it this way, swap games 3&4 with games 1&2. IdrA 6pools in game one: Oh well. Sucks it didn't work. Sick sick defense by alive. 6pool in game 2: Tried to fool alive by doing the same build. Scouted and failed. Game 3: Hatch first. Lose to cheese. Game 4: Hatch first. Lose to semi-all-in. I'm not going to pretend that the 6pools weren't a result of IdrA being on tilt. They likely were (maybe not the crossfire game, but Dual Sight almost certainly). However, my point is that I kinda agree with BronzeKnee. There is a double standard here. Hey guys, Let's construe the truth in such a manner so that IdrA seems like less of a bad guy. Signed, Irrational fans. Stop comparing 2base double reactor hellion with 6pool, and even 11/11 can't be compared with 6pool. 11/11 at least has a history of working and makes it a decent choice in a BoX series. Nobody is comparing a 6pool to a double reactor hellion. Hey guys, Let's read so far into a post that we can start making shit up. Signed, The Angry Ignoramus Oh look.... I can do that too.
Except that he was calling a 9 minute double reactor hellion push cheese and thus comparing it to a 6 pool?
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United States23455 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:24 JJH777 wrote:
Lucky beat MMA with 2 6 pools recently. Losira beat Marineking with a 6 pool. I didn't watch the series so I'm not going to say that IdrA thought he was going to win but it definitely isn't a game throwing strategy..
But Alive CALLED IT IN THE FOURTH GAME. He knew it was coming. There was a 0% chance that Alive, currently one of the best five Terrans in the entire world, was going to lose to a "sixpoll" when he called it before it even got close to him.
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On February 13 2012 14:22 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:19 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 14:12 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:09 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2012 14:04 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 14:03 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 13 2012 14:02 oxxo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 13 2012 13:55 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm sure he knows people want to see macro games out of him too. Like, it's a showmatch, he must be aware that the whole point is people want to see these games. Showing up and then deciding you don't actually want to play is really a big fuck you to everyone watching. It's hard to understand why he's even still doing this with that attitude. There is such double standard here it is ridiculous, if I was a mod I would be handing out bans for player bashing. Imagine if this had been a best of three and Alive's first two cheeses failed badly. Would we be all over Alive, accusing him of not caring, throwing the match, not coming to play a macro game ect? No, so why are we accusing Idra? All this proved is that Alive is a better cheeser than Idra, since all the games were cheese. It was just as much Alive's fault that the games were cheese as it was Idra's. And that is the facts. Idra did not show up and not want to play, Alive showed up to cheese, and Idra decided to cheese in response. Hate them both (and hate cheese) or hate neither. The double standard is ridiculous. It's not a double standard. The first game wasn't even cheese. Second game is semi-all in but so what? It's still a legitimate strategy. 6 pools vs a Code S player twice in a row is just throwing the games. Wait a second, since when is 11/11 not cheese? Sorry, I misspoke. Just meant it wasn't like 6 pooling. Either way, both of Alive's strategies are legit and are designed to win. 6 pooling vs Code S player is throwing the games. You are splitting hairs at that point. Builds based on coin flips are just that. You hope your opponent did not happen to blind counter you and pray for the easy win. If the where the MGL qualifiers, Alive's builds would have been totally valid. But this was a show match and he just decided he wanted easy wins. Idra then decided he could make more money coaching a bronze player for the amount of time he would have to spend dealing with Alive's cheese. No I'm not. I don't get how you think Alive's strategies were comparable to Idra's. Alive's have transitions and if executed well (as a Code S Terran would) WILL do some type of damage. Idra's has no transition and even if executed perfectly has almost no chance of working vs a Code S Terran. They are completely different. I don't think they were comparable at all. Idra threw those games because he didn't want to play a show match against a player who is going to cheese every game. It was a show match, not the MLG finals. They are for small amounts of cash and mostly fun for the players and the fans. Alive decided he was going to cheese and all in for the first two game. Idra then decided Alive could have the $400 if it meant that much to him. He threw games because he was tilted. Come if, if he knows cheese is coming, why doesn't he try to defend it? If he can't defend it, then it's Idra's fault for not being able to defend said cheese. Alive couldn't cheese DongRaeGu four times in a row. If DRG lost the first two games to cheese, he would have just defended the cheese and rocked Alive's shit. Idra threw in the white flag and gave up. If this was a first time occurrence, then maybe you can say Idra isn't at fault, but this is Idra. This is just one in many instances where this has happened. And yes, $400 is important. Why the hell wouldn't it be important? Just because it isn't $5,000 doesn't mean that Alive should be chastised for wanting to win the money.
Its a show match, which is as close to the pro bowl as Starcraft 2 gets. Its not really that important and Alive didn't show up to play epic games either. He was there for the easy wins.
Also, I don't think Idra was tilted. I just don't think he gave a crap if Alive pretty much announced he was willing to cheese or all -in every game to win.
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On February 13 2012 14:25 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:24 JJH777 wrote:
Lucky beat MMA with 2 6 pools recently. Losira beat Marineking with a 6 pool. I didn't watch the series so I'm not going to say that IdrA thought he was going to win but it definitely isn't a game throwing strategy.. But Alive CALLED IT IN THE FOURTH GAME. He knew it was coming. There was a 0% chance that Alive, currently one of the best five Terrans in the entire world, was going to lose to a "sixpoll" when he called it before it even got close to him.
their six pools were executed better and involved pulling their drones
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On February 13 2012 14:24 Loxley wrote:
Any player that wins against Idra is screwed it seems. Alive getting bashed for a 2base helion push.. Damn him! And his dirty normal game pressure tactics! He should be banned. From never playing idra again! But against the rest of the world he seems to be a pretty respected player.
Um... Where did you get that from? People are almost exclusively bashing Idra in this thread. Even the people who aren't calling him a pathetic loser are admitting it probably wasn't the best move by Idra.
Have you read any of the thread?
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On February 13 2012 14:25 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:24 JJH777 wrote:
Lucky beat MMA with 2 6 pools recently. Losira beat Marineking with a 6 pool. I didn't watch the series so I'm not going to say that IdrA thought he was going to win but it definitely isn't a game throwing strategy.. But Alive CALLED IT IN THE FOURTH GAME. He knew it was coming. There was a 0% chance that Alive, currently one of the best five Terrans in the entire world, was going to lose to a "sixpoll" when he called it before it even got close to him.
not to mention alive just held off a 6pool with a proxy rax...the best possible scenario for a 6 pool...so theres no way alive would lose to a 6 rax any other time
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On February 13 2012 14:25 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:24 JJH777 wrote:
Lucky beat MMA with 2 6 pools recently. Losira beat Marineking with a 6 pool. I didn't watch the series so I'm not going to say that IdrA thought he was going to win but it definitely isn't a game throwing strategy.. But Alive CALLED IT IN THE FOURTH GAME. He knew it was coming. There was a 0% chance that Alive, currently one of the best five Terrans in the entire world, was going to lose to a "sixpoll" when he called it before it even got close to him.
I believe idra had already started the pool when alive said that ... not 100% sure though
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On February 13 2012 14:26 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:24 Loxley wrote:
Any player that wins against Idra is screwed it seems. Alive getting bashed for a 2base helion push.. Damn him! And his dirty normal game pressure tactics! He should be banned. From never playing idra again! But against the rest of the world he seems to be a pretty respected player. Um... Where did you get that from? People are almost exclusively bashing Idra in this thread. Even the people who aren't calling him a pathetic loser are admitting it probably wasn't the best move by Idra. Have you read any of the thread?
yes he has, and about a third of this thread is people claiming IdrA did it because he was being "cheesed" by alive using such infamous strategies as a 9 minute reactor hellion push
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Tbh, Idra actually fulfilled my expectations when I watch a "showmatch" better than Alive. I watch a showmatch to be entertained, and watching Idra tilt off the last 2 games was way more entertaining than watching Alive's boring-ass play.
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On February 13 2012 14:27 89andy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:25 Fionn wrote:On February 13 2012 14:24 JJH777 wrote:
Lucky beat MMA with 2 6 pools recently. Losira beat Marineking with a 6 pool. I didn't watch the series so I'm not going to say that IdrA thought he was going to win but it definitely isn't a game throwing strategy.. But Alive CALLED IT IN THE FOURTH GAME. He knew it was coming. There was a 0% chance that Alive, currently one of the best five Terrans in the entire world, was going to lose to a "sixpoll" when he called it before it even got close to him. I believe idra had already started the pool when alive said that ... not 100% sure though
yeah he did....even if he called it out 30 seconds into a game...once you dont make that first drone your kind of commited
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On February 13 2012 14:26 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:24 Loxley wrote:
Any player that wins against Idra is screwed it seems. Alive getting bashed for a 2base helion push.. Damn him! And his dirty normal game pressure tactics! He should be banned. From never playing idra again! But against the rest of the world he seems to be a pretty respected player. Um... Where did you get that from? People are almost exclusively bashing Idra in this thread. Even the people who aren't calling him a pathetic loser are admitting it probably wasn't the best move by Idra. Have you read any of the thread?
I've read it all, it just baffles me to see some people defending 2 back-to-back sixpolls (in a showmatch) because Alive 'cheesed first'. Ye, i know, shouldn't react to people defending their icons, emotions are involved which makes for a sad discussion.
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EPT
