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Let's have a nice clean LR thread folks! Beware that moderation will probably be stricter than usual, balance whine, player bashing and trolling will not be tolerated! |
On January 12 2012 00:25 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:20 Applesqt wrote:On January 11 2012 23:57 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 21:59 Fabsi wrote:
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yea, i agree. terran is just so well equiped for these scenarios, if a player of MVPs caliber is in command and has the apm/understanding to pull it off. 3/3 marine drops really are a mayor part of the strategy.
ot: kind of funny imagining a 8 ling drop (or lets say 16 lings = same supply) destroying 3 bunkers and a oc/pf.
Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable. Well, as protoss you have to tech to drops. Its not just an upgrade, and all your pylons get to be dropships, so your argument is invalid. Protoss and zerg both have to tech to drops! And if you really dont see, why you should risk 4 infestors for good macro damage, then keep losing to terrans late game. Its your choice. But please dont blame balance for your losses. Blame it on your lethargy and lack of initiative. Anyway, if you do want to educate yourself, on how its done, watch Violets game vs MKP @ HSC. 3 vs 3 base, roach and infestor drops vs mech, leading to utter dismantling of the terran. Beautiful! You know, now that I think about it it does require a starport to make medivacs. Who cares if I have to make a starport anyway, you make a robo 90% of the times you're not on 1 base all game too. What is exactly the reason for your posting? The other guy and I were not talking about terran, so there was no need to discuss it.
Well you see, he was saying that like it's a lot of work to tech to drops when protoss will be getting a Robotics bay in 90% of the games they play. Zerg is the only race that has to get an upgrade for drops, so no protoss doesn't exactly have to tech to drops since it's part of the robotics bay that you're going to be getting anyway. It's very common to get a robotics bay right after an expansion as protoss, what you build out of it is up to you.
Towards the infestor drop thing, you can just throw down infested terrans and then fly out, very unlikely that you'll lose them if you do it right. Most terrans including the pros don't put up a line around the edge of their base, they just put it up near the mineral line/production leaving plenty of room for you to do the drop and then leave.
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On January 12 2012 00:13 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:00 HuKPOWA wrote:
and Idra is not worthy of Code S <3 Nestea showing his slump is over tho :D Losing a ZvZ 2-1 to a solid ZvZer and another 2-0 to somebody with a 90% winrate in the matchup is not a clear indicator of "not worthy of code S." He was the weakest ZvZ in the group. That's about the only real conclusion you can draw from that. Also, Nestea has not been slumping. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: all-in, bonjwa, and slump are the most overused and misunderstood phrases on TL.
I agree with that so much. Especially ALL IN. people on TL seem to think any type of aggression before 20 minutes of macro is considered all in.
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On January 12 2012 00:37 Applesqt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:25 PureBalls wrote:On January 12 2012 00:20 Applesqt wrote:On January 11 2012 23:57 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:
[quote]
Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable. Well, as protoss you have to tech to drops. Its not just an upgrade, and all your pylons get to be dropships, so your argument is invalid. Protoss and zerg both have to tech to drops! And if you really dont see, why you should risk 4 infestors for good macro damage, then keep losing to terrans late game. Its your choice. But please dont blame balance for your losses. Blame it on your lethargy and lack of initiative. Anyway, if you do want to educate yourself, on how its done, watch Violets game vs MKP @ HSC. 3 vs 3 base, roach and infestor drops vs mech, leading to utter dismantling of the terran. Beautiful! You know, now that I think about it it does require a starport to make medivacs. Who cares if I have to make a starport anyway, you make a robo 90% of the times you're not on 1 base all game too. What is exactly the reason for your posting? The other guy and I were not talking about terran, so there was no need to discuss it. Well you see, he was saying that like it's a lot of work to tech to drops when protoss will be getting a Robotics bay in 90% of the games they play. Zerg is the only race that has to get an upgrade for drops, so no protoss doesn't exactly have to tech to drops since it's part of the robotics bay that you're going to be getting anyway. It's very common to get a robotics bay right after an expansion as protoss, what you build out of it is up to you. Towards the infestor drop thing, you can just throw down infested terrans and then fly out, very unlikely that you'll lose them if you do it right. Most terrans including the pros don't put up a line around the edge of their base, they just put it up near the mineral line/production leaving plenty of room for you to do the drop and then leave.
1. There is no such thing as "you're going to be getting anyway." If I'm playing toss, there are a number of builds where I would like to skip the robo, in order to make my build tighter and stronger. For example a 2 base blink stalker all in vs zerg. Building a robo is a must if he techs to burrow, but it is not something I get to bust my stalker force, no I get the robo because I MUST.
2. Exactly! Thats what I was talking about.
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On January 12 2012 00:13 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:00 HuKPOWA wrote:
and Idra is not worthy of Code S <3 Nestea showing his slump is over tho :D Losing a ZvZ 2-1 to a solid ZvZer and another 2-0 to somebody with a 90% winrate in the matchup is not a clear indicator of "not worthy of code S." He was the weakest ZvZ in the group. That's about the only real conclusion you can draw from that. Also, Nestea has not been slumping. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: all-in, bonjwa, and slump are the most overused and misunderstood phrases on TL.
Idra was stronger in ZvZ than Lucky by far.. Idra just got unlucky(lol) build order losses against Nestea, Lucky accidentally hardcountering Idra, then hitting 10 secs too early for Idra to hold in G3. These games showed no skill what so ever, and it was major fucking disappointment... I wanted to see Idra vs Nestea epic macro games like MLG Global, not to mention Idra vs MvP T_T
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really lame idra had to ZvZ to advance, was hoping to see his stellar ZvT even if it was against a monster in MVP.
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Idra about ZvT: marines and ghosts are stupidly OP
Idra about ZvP: it's the most imbalanced match-up ever
Idra about ZvZ: it's such a retarted match-up, pure coin flips
What is good about it, is that there is always a good reason to explain a loss XD
On a serious note, it's a shame he got eliminated, but Code S is way more brutal now that it was when Idra left it, so no big surprise here
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MVP and Nestea advance.
Pretty standard affair here today.
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On January 12 2012 00:54 SolidMustard wrote:
Idra about ZvT: marines and ghosts are stupidly OP
Idra about ZvP: it's the most imbalanced match-up ever
Idra about ZvZ: it's such a retarted match-up, pure coin flips
What is good about it, is that there is always a good reason to explain a loss XD
On a serious note, it's a shame he got eliminated, but Code S is way more brutal now that it was when Idra left it, so no big surprise here
Have you seen 3/3 marines under medievacs?  They are fucking inssaaaaaaneee
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Northern Ireland27013 Posts
Wow Code S is brutal these days. I don't think it's possible to just jet in, compete in Code S and do well anymore, you really need to base yourself in Korea a la Huk to stay competitive, and even he dropped to Code S
Shame that many have felt the need to bash the foreigners competing, it's the top tournament in the world! I find it strange that Idra and Sen can beat these players until they get to Korea, I'm sure part of it is knowing your groups well in advance and being able to prepare your builds, part of it is probably familiarity as well. Just seems that playing Koreans in Korea is a level of difficulty above beating them in foreign tournaments. And no I'm not accepting jet lag as a reason, MC was in pretty good shape when he got back from HSC.
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I really wanted to see IdrA vs MVP  ... his ZvT soo good, while ZvZ is just not as enjoyable to watch. Oh well...
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I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing.
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On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing.
Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky
I was going to respond, but then I read your sig lol =)
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I missed the matches, but I can't say I'm surprised. I guessed this was how it would turn out, because NesTea & MVP are such great players, no offense to IdrA & Lucky.
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On January 12 2012 00:54 SolidMustard wrote:
Idra about ZvT: marines and ghosts are stupidly OP
Idra about ZvP: it's the most imbalanced match-up ever
Idra about ZvZ: it's such a retarted match-up, pure coin flips
What is good about it, is that there is always a good reason to explain a loss XD
On a serious note, it's a shame he got eliminated, but Code S is way more brutal now that it was when Idra left it, so no big surprise here
It's weird though how Idra turns out to be right.
Every pro will tell you that split map TvZ late game is horrifyingly hard for Zerg because of marines and ghosts.
Idra was telling Protoss to sit back on 3 base and camp wayyy back on SotG and everyone was bashing him for it. Yet what are all the Toss guides telling you to do? Sit back, camp to 3/1 upgrades, get a mothership.
ZvZ IS retarded, lol. When a matchup is 90% "feel" and 10% strategy, you know something's wrong.
Still, Nestea IS better than Idra in ZvZ and as for Lucky, well, Idra just got unlucky there.
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On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky
Sorry for defending my player, but results say otherwise. (puts on flame retardant clothing)
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On January 12 2012 01:06 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky I was going to respond, but then I read your sig lol =)
I don't really know much about Lucky, but judging from g1 vs Idra and the series against MvP, I'd say Idra is better than Lucky, fanboyism aside. By the way, not all Idra fans are mindless retarded fucktards. Don't generalize us D: Post at me, bro =_=
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:09 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:06 Asha` wrote:On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky I was going to respond, but then I read your sig lol =) I don't really know much about Lucky, but judging from g1 vs Idra and the series against MvP, I'd say Idra is better than Lucky, fanboyism aside. By the way, not all Idra fans are mindless retarded fucktards. Don't generalize us D: Post at me, bro =_=
Idra 1 : 2 Lucky
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On January 12 2012 00:58 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow Code S is brutal these days. I don't think it's possible to just jet in, compete in Code S and do well anymore, you really need to base yourself in Korea a la Huk to stay competitive, and even he dropped to Code S
Shame that many have felt the need to bash the foreigners competing, it's the top tournament in the world! I find it strange that Idra and Sen can beat these players until they get to Korea, I'm sure part of it is knowing your groups well in advance and being able to prepare your builds, part of it is probably familiarity as well. Just seems that playing Koreans in Korea is a level of difficulty above beating them in foreign tournaments. And no I'm not accepting jet lag as a reason, MC was in pretty good shape when he got back from HSC.
They shouldnt be there. Principly, two better players who would have earned thier spot through merit of a tough Code A qualification are not there due to these gifts/affirmative action. It also hurts GSL who has creed as best tounment in the world primarly due to thier merit based qualification system as opposed to so many invitaionals which are a dime a dozen.
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On January 12 2012 01:08 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky Sorry for defending my player, but results say otherwise. (puts on flame retardant clothing)
If you mean the Idra vs Lucky series, I hardly think that should be looked into all too much >.<
Don't be sorry for disagreeing -.-' This is a forum, we are allowed to disagree as long as we keep it civilized :3
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EPT
