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Let's have a nice clean LR thread folks! Beware that moderation will probably be stricter than usual, balance whine, player bashing and trolling will not be tolerated! |
On January 11 2012 23:27 ramon wrote:
i think the polls should just all all contain the same options for each match, haven't watched the games yet as i was at university but it's really weird when the option i presume to be yes is "Oh...my....goodness.... " but "no" has twice as many votes
please avoid this in the future, it is not only hard to read but systemically changes the votes
I think that "oh..my..goodness.." quite clearly means "No way in hell" in that situation.
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Unfortunately I missed today's games  My liquibet went well
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On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 21:59 Fabsi wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Inflicted_ wrote:On January 11 2012 21:53 Fabsi wrote:
hm, don't quite know what to say about that game. obviously well played by MVP but ghosts and turtleing terran always leaves such a foul taste in my mouth. gg anyway i guess! Turtling terrans can get crushed easily (see: Leenock vs ForGG). What MVP does, isn't just pure turtling but getting the ultimate composition with ghosts while doing mass-drops to kill off the 4th/5th/6th bases to starve off the Zerg and reduce their re-max capabilities. yea, i agree. terran is just so well equiped for these scenarios, if a player of MVPs caliber is in command and has the apm/understanding to pull it off. 3/3 marine drops really are a mayor part of the strategy. ot: kind of funny imagining a 8 ling drop (or lets say 16 lings = same supply) destroying 3 bunkers and a oc/pf. Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play.
Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins.
I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable.
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On January 11 2012 23:19 SC2NeCro wrote:
Kinda knew IdrA wouldn't advance, but he'll get better. I think he's going to be here for the next GSL as well.
Did people notice an improvement in his play though? I didn't stay up.
It was more cheesy, if anything (like 2 all ins out of 5 games, not very Idra-like).
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With the exception of Nestea beating MVP, the scores pretty much fleshed out how I figured they would.
Still a fan of all four of these guys.
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Are the VODs for these games up yet? I missed the last couple games...
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On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 21:59 Fabsi wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Inflicted_ wrote:On January 11 2012 21:53 Fabsi wrote:
hm, don't quite know what to say about that game. obviously well played by MVP but ghosts and turtleing terran always leaves such a foul taste in my mouth. gg anyway i guess! Turtling terrans can get crushed easily (see: Leenock vs ForGG). What MVP does, isn't just pure turtling but getting the ultimate composition with ghosts while doing mass-drops to kill off the 4th/5th/6th bases to starve off the Zerg and reduce their re-max capabilities. yea, i agree. terran is just so well equiped for these scenarios, if a player of MVPs caliber is in command and has the apm/understanding to pull it off. 3/3 marine drops really are a mayor part of the strategy. ot: kind of funny imagining a 8 ling drop (or lets say 16 lings = same supply) destroying 3 bunkers and a oc/pf. Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable.
well, there is a simple excuse for passive gameplay: mutalisks.
every terran progamer knows how to defend against them and therefore always has the turrets and spread out marine groups to detect and shoot air against whatever harassment a zerg wants to do.
I don't think it has anything to do with drop reasearch... It's the simple fact that the only way to harass a terran in ZvT is to have a huge attack group at one place, which means you're either allin (so we don't have to argue about "passive gameplay" as it was a simple allin drop attack) or you are using a huge group of very mobile units, which pretty much means mutalisks or lings (as anything else like roaches again simply turns out to be an allin, due to costs and the way larvamechanism works)
edit: that's not meant as a balancewhine or something like that at all. It's the way zerg works, or at least the way that zerg has been succesful with.
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Number of GSL games won because of ghosts: 10-20
Number of GSL games won because of infestor/broodlord: 200+
Number of GSL games won because of protoss deathball: 200+
If a player like Lucky could beat MVP after being behind you would know lategame TvZ is impossible.
People always use incredibly bad Zerg play like Nestea at Blizzcon or July with the fail allin as examples
why ghosts are too good they want to turn the best matchup into the worst by forcing
terran to allin every game.
Leenock beat forgg who had about 20 ghosts and played exceptionally well that game for instance.
Edit: This isnt balance whining, I didnt say anything is OP or something so yea just a misunderstanding.
User was warned for this post
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On January 11 2012 23:36 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:19 SC2NeCro wrote:
Kinda knew IdrA wouldn't advance, but he'll get better. I think he's going to be here for the next GSL as well.
Did people notice an improvement in his play though? I didn't stay up. It was more cheesy, if anything (like 2 all ins out of 5 games, not very Idra-like).
Clearly Boxer is having an effect on him. Making Idra a more dynamic player bode well for him in the long run I would think.
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On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 21:59 Fabsi wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Inflicted_ wrote:On January 11 2012 21:53 Fabsi wrote:
hm, don't quite know what to say about that game. obviously well played by MVP but ghosts and turtleing terran always leaves such a foul taste in my mouth. gg anyway i guess! Turtling terrans can get crushed easily (see: Leenock vs ForGG). What MVP does, isn't just pure turtling but getting the ultimate composition with ghosts while doing mass-drops to kill off the 4th/5th/6th bases to starve off the Zerg and reduce their re-max capabilities. yea, i agree. terran is just so well equiped for these scenarios, if a player of MVPs caliber is in command and has the apm/understanding to pull it off. 3/3 marine drops really are a mayor part of the strategy. ot: kind of funny imagining a 8 ling drop (or lets say 16 lings = same supply) destroying 3 bunkers and a oc/pf. Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable.
Well, as protoss you have to tech to drops. Its not just an upgrade, and all your pylons get to be dropships, so your argument is invalid. Protoss and zerg both have to tech to drops!
And if you really dont see, why you should risk 4 infestors for good macro damage, then keep losing to terrans late game. Its your choice. But please dont blame balance for your losses. Blame it on your lethargy and lack of initiative.
Anyway, if you do want to educate yourself, on how its done, watch Violets game vs MKP @ HSC. 3 vs 3 base, roach and infestor drops vs mech, leading to utter dismantling of the terran. Beautiful!
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On January 11 2012 23:55 NPF wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:36 ZenithM wrote:On January 11 2012 23:19 SC2NeCro wrote:
Kinda knew IdrA wouldn't advance, but he'll get better. I think he's going to be here for the next GSL as well.
Did people notice an improvement in his play though? I didn't stay up. It was more cheesy, if anything (like 2 all ins out of 5 games, not very Idra-like). Clearly Boxer is having an effect on him. Making Idra a more dynamic player bode well for him in the long run I would think. Actually an interesting point, Idra is mechanically a very strong player but he is extremely set in his playstyle. I think he's like me probably in that mixing in all-ins feels wrong, but it's a thing he probably has to do
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and Idra is not worthy of Code S <3 Nestea showing his slump is over tho :D
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On January 12 2012 00:00 HuKPOWA wrote:
and Idra is not worthy of Code S <3 Nestea showing his slump is over tho :D
Losing a ZvZ 2-1 to a solid ZvZer and another 2-0 to somebody with a 90% winrate in the matchup is not a clear indicator of "not worthy of code S." He was the weakest ZvZ in the group. That's about the only real conclusion you can draw from that.
Also, Nestea has not been slumping.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: all-in, bonjwa, and slump are the most overused and misunderstood phrases on TL.
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Phew, was stressful to watch this group as an Mvp fan :D Thankfully he made it through, in epic fashion in the end 
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Played out as most would expect. WP MVP / Nestea~!
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On January 11 2012 23:57 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 21:59 Fabsi wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Inflicted_ wrote:On January 11 2012 21:53 Fabsi wrote:
hm, don't quite know what to say about that game. obviously well played by MVP but ghosts and turtleing terran always leaves such a foul taste in my mouth. gg anyway i guess! Turtling terrans can get crushed easily (see: Leenock vs ForGG). What MVP does, isn't just pure turtling but getting the ultimate composition with ghosts while doing mass-drops to kill off the 4th/5th/6th bases to starve off the Zerg and reduce their re-max capabilities. yea, i agree. terran is just so well equiped for these scenarios, if a player of MVPs caliber is in command and has the apm/understanding to pull it off. 3/3 marine drops really are a mayor part of the strategy. ot: kind of funny imagining a 8 ling drop (or lets say 16 lings = same supply) destroying 3 bunkers and a oc/pf. Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable. Well, as protoss you have to tech to drops. Its not just an upgrade, and all your pylons get to be dropships, so your argument is invalid. Protoss and zerg both have to tech to drops! And if you really dont see, why you should risk 4 infestors for good macro damage, then keep losing to terrans late game. Its your choice. But please dont blame balance for your losses. Blame it on your lethargy and lack of initiative. Anyway, if you do want to educate yourself, on how its done, watch Violets game vs MKP @ HSC. 3 vs 3 base, roach and infestor drops vs mech, leading to utter dismantling of the terran. Beautiful!
You know, now that I think about it it does require a starport to make medivacs. Who cares if I have to make a starport anyway, you make a robo 90% of the times you're not on 1 base all game too.
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All is as it should be.
The Timelords of SC2 do not favor change.
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Nice to wake up and see a group go as expected more or less. Any epic games out of the lot? Thx!
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On January 12 2012 00:13 Scribble wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:00 HuKPOWA wrote:
and Idra is not worthy of Code S <3 Nestea showing his slump is over tho :D Losing a ZvZ 2-1 to a solid ZvZer and another 2-0 to somebody with a 90% winrate in the matchup is not a clear indicator of "not worthy of code S." He was the weakest ZvZ in the group. That's about the only real conclusion you can draw from that. Also, Nestea has not been slumping. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: all-in, bonjwa, and slump are the most overused and misunderstood phrases on TL.
Getting 2-0'd by Nestea who was indeed in a HUGE slump last season by winning 2-1 to most players he faced in Code A. And then losing to Revival...luck can only get involved so much before skill takes in...
and "Dear IdrA: You will prove to us once and for all whether or not you are worthy of Code S...."
Doesn't matter what match up you play in code S...if you go 1-4 in the group stages you deserve to be knocked down, he even woulda been knocked to Code A if it was last season which was quite hard to fall in code S
Good games by Nestea, MVP...showing Nestea still has it <3
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On January 12 2012 00:20 Applesqt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:57 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 21:59 Fabsi wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Inflicted_ wrote:
[quote]
Turtling terrans can get crushed easily (see: Leenock vs ForGG). What MVP does, isn't just pure turtling but getting the ultimate composition with ghosts while doing mass-drops to kill off the 4th/5th/6th bases to starve off the Zerg and reduce their re-max capabilities. yea, i agree. terran is just so well equiped for these scenarios, if a player of MVPs caliber is in command and has the apm/understanding to pull it off. 3/3 marine drops really are a mayor part of the strategy. ot: kind of funny imagining a 8 ling drop (or lets say 16 lings = same supply) destroying 3 bunkers and a oc/pf. Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable. Well, as protoss you have to tech to drops. Its not just an upgrade, and all your pylons get to be dropships, so your argument is invalid. Protoss and zerg both have to tech to drops! And if you really dont see, why you should risk 4 infestors for good macro damage, then keep losing to terrans late game. Its your choice. But please dont blame balance for your losses. Blame it on your lethargy and lack of initiative. Anyway, if you do want to educate yourself, on how its done, watch Violets game vs MKP @ HSC. 3 vs 3 base, roach and infestor drops vs mech, leading to utter dismantling of the terran. Beautiful! You know, now that I think about it it does require a starport to make medivacs. Who cares if I have to make a starport anyway, you make a robo 90% of the times you're not on 1 base all game too.
What is exactly the reason for your posting?
The other guy and I were not talking about terran, so there was no need to discuss it.
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EPT
