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Let's have a nice clean LR thread folks! Beware that moderation will probably be stricter than usual, balance whine, player bashing and trolling will not be tolerated! |
On January 12 2012 00:37 Applesqt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:25 PureBalls wrote:On January 12 2012 00:20 Applesqt wrote:On January 11 2012 23:57 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:33 BruceBanger wrote:On January 11 2012 23:20 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 23:11 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:On January 11 2012 22:34 PureBalls wrote:On January 11 2012 22:16 ElBlanco wrote:On January 11 2012 22:12 PureBalls wrote:
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Well, its late game. So whats stopping a zerg from dropping like 4 infestors full with energy, spaming infested teranns, and crushing tech buildings? Infested terrans have SICK DPS, so they take building down in no time. I think it all comes down to zergs not being used to harassing their enemies. You don't think that might have something to do with the fact that 4 infestors cost 600 gas and 8 marines cost 0? There is a huge difference between losing a marine drop and losing an infestor drop. Thats no excuse, not to harass! 4 sentries are 400 gas, and you will see this kind of drop from a protoss player occasionally. And since this drop is only viable in the early mid game, its even more risky than a 4 infestor drop in the late game, by which time zergs have huge banks And I remember some Destiny games, where he did ridiculous damage with that. Maybe the icon for the drop upgrade need a new design? The big difference here is that when you are doing a four sentry drop the Zerg will likely not have anything other than queens in the way of AA. Unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you can throw down enough ff to protect you on the ground long enough for evac. If you lose those sentries you are just flat out bad. Are you Idra? Certainly sounds like Idra... Anyway, toss do that drop vs terran as well. Ther is simply no excuse for the passive zerg game play. Protoss dont have to research drops. As a Z you don't want to spend that gas unless you are doing mass roach/ling drops. Also, Sentries' FF help them stay alive for some time and the warpprism is able to reinforce the drop with additional warpins. I really don't see why you should kind of throw away 4 infestors. They are way too valuable. Well, as protoss you have to tech to drops. Its not just an upgrade, and all your pylons get to be dropships, so your argument is invalid. Protoss and zerg both have to tech to drops! And if you really dont see, why you should risk 4 infestors for good macro damage, then keep losing to terrans late game. Its your choice. But please dont blame balance for your losses. Blame it on your lethargy and lack of initiative. Anyway, if you do want to educate yourself, on how its done, watch Violets game vs MKP @ HSC. 3 vs 3 base, roach and infestor drops vs mech, leading to utter dismantling of the terran. Beautiful! You know, now that I think about it it does require a starport to make medivacs. Who cares if I have to make a starport anyway, you make a robo 90% of the times you're not on 1 base all game too. What is exactly the reason for your posting? The other guy and I were not talking about terran, so there was no need to discuss it. Well you see, he was saying that like it's a lot of work to tech to drops when protoss will be getting a Robotics bay in 90% of the games they play. Zerg is the only race that has to get an upgrade for drops, so no protoss doesn't exactly have to tech to drops since it's part of the robotics bay that you're going to be getting anyway. It's very common to get a robotics bay right after an expansion as protoss, what you build out of it is up to you. Towards the infestor drop thing, you can just throw down infested terrans and then fly out, very unlikely that you'll lose them if you do it right. Most terrans including the pros don't put up a line around the edge of their base, they just put it up near the mineral line/production leaving plenty of room for you to do the drop and then leave.
Drops are so different it is hard to compare. For example if you want to drop your whole army, now that zerg upgrade seems like a great deal compared to building 10 warp prisms! xD
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Lucky vs Idra was exciting
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On January 12 2012 01:11 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:08 FXOpen wrote:On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky Sorry for defending my player, but results say otherwise. (puts on flame retardant clothing) If you mean the Idra vs Lucky series, I hardly think that should be looked into all too much >.< Don't be sorry for disagreeing -.-' This is a forum, we are allowed to disagree as long as we keep it civilized :3
Whilst the first 2 games of the day were not impressive. I have not seen idra play as well as lucky did vs MvP the second time. As great as idra is and yes I do think he is one of the foreigners who actually belong in the top end of GSL, Lucky is known in Korea for being a good zerg player. With zvz being his only bad match up (thanks to the leenocktopus helping with his terran). His final games vs MvP were leenock style games. Not quite as well executed, but still, a level of play that I have not seen from any foreign zerg vs terran.
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On January 12 2012 01:10 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:09 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:06 Asha` wrote:On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky I was going to respond, but then I read your sig lol =) I don't really know much about Lucky, but judging from g1 vs Idra and the series against MvP, I'd say Idra is better than Lucky, fanboyism aside. By the way, not all Idra fans are mindless retarded fucktards. Don't generalize us D: Post at me, bro =_= Idra 1 : 2 Lucky
Lucky blindly harcountered Idra in G2, and hit a weeeiiird timing in G3. I dunno if he had Idra scouted up( I don't think he did), but he attacked just before his +2 upgrades finished. Like, it was a really weird timing, considering the upgrades wouldnt be finished when he engaged. It was a good call though, if he had waited(which would make more sense) he would most likely have lost. Finally Lucky got lucky :D
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On January 12 2012 01:10 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:58 Wombat_NI wrote:
Wow Code S is brutal these days. I don't think it's possible to just jet in, compete in Code S and do well anymore, you really need to base yourself in Korea a la Huk to stay competitive, and even he dropped to Code S
Shame that many have felt the need to bash the foreigners competing, it's the top tournament in the world! I find it strange that Idra and Sen can beat these players until they get to Korea, I'm sure part of it is knowing your groups well in advance and being able to prepare your builds, part of it is probably familiarity as well. Just seems that playing Koreans in Korea is a level of difficulty above beating them in foreign tournaments. And no I'm not accepting jet lag as a reason, MC was in pretty good shape when he got back from HSC. They shouldnt be there. Principly, two better players who would have earned thier spot through merit of a tough Code A qualification are not there due to these gifts/affirmative action. It also hurts GSL who has creed as best tounment in the world primarly due to thier merit based qualification system as opposed to so many invitaionals which are a dime a dozen.
The only good the invited players have done so far is to act as a buffer that prevents better players from being knocked out. 
I'm really sad I actually missed todays games, they would have been interesting to see.
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Good games by Lucky, sad he lost though. T_T
I hope we can see more of him in the future.
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On January 12 2012 01:08 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky Sorry for defending my player, but results say otherwise. (puts on flame retardant clothing)
People just don't look at foreigners objectively, especially IdrA, who is almost the sole NA hope. There was no reason to think that he could make a deep run into Code S besides that one time he beat Bomber 2-1, but the beginning of this thread makes it seem like he's a top 5 Zerg in the world (if not higher). It doesn't matter how often he loses to Koreans, or how often he loses to foreigners, he's going to get more hype than he warrants. Look, there are even people explaining how none of his losses today were his fault. It's almost hilarious.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On January 12 2012 01:14 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:10 Hassybaby wrote:On January 12 2012 01:09 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:06 Asha` wrote:On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky I was going to respond, but then I read your sig lol =) I don't really know much about Lucky, but judging from g1 vs Idra and the series against MvP, I'd say Idra is better than Lucky, fanboyism aside. By the way, not all Idra fans are mindless retarded fucktards. Don't generalize us D: Post at me, bro =_= Idra 1 : 2 Lucky Lucky blindly harcountered Idra in G2, and hit a weeeiiird timing in G3. I dunno if he had Idra scouted up( I don't think he did), but he attacked just before his +2 upgrades finished. Like, it was a really weird timing, considering the upgrades wouldnt be finished when he engaged. It was a good call though, if he had waited(which would make more sense) he would most likely have lost. Finally Lucky got lucky :D
Did we see the same game? Because in game 2 I saw Lucky holding off a big attack by Idra through roach number, then inning the upgrade war since Idra's upgrades were really late (in fact his Roach Warren was late as well) How is that a blind counter exactly?
Game 3 was pretty weird, yeah.
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On January 12 2012 01:14 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:11 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:08 FXOpen wrote:On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky Sorry for defending my player, but results say otherwise. (puts on flame retardant clothing) If you mean the Idra vs Lucky series, I hardly think that should be looked into all too much >.< Don't be sorry for disagreeing -.-' This is a forum, we are allowed to disagree as long as we keep it civilized :3 Whilst the first 2 games of the day were not impressive. I have not seen idra play as well as lucky did vs MvP the second time. As great as idra is and yes I do think he is one of the foreigners who actually belong in the top end of GSL, Lucky is known in Korea for being a good zerg player. With zvz being his only bad match up (thanks to the leenocktopus helping with his terran). His final games vs MvP were leenock style games. Not quite as well executed, but still, a level of play that I have not seen from any foreign zerg vs terran.
Ooohhhh, I see. I only watched the first series against MvP, where he got demolished ^^ As well as the fact that Idra's ZvT is recognised among the very very top, even amongst the very best of the Koreans. The sheer number of fucking beast Koreans makes it kind of hard to notice players like Lucky that never really wins anything, or get too much exposure. Like, my perception of Lucky is based mostly on the fact that he got 4-0d by Stephano, and that he is hardly ever mentioned when someone talks about the strong Korean Zergs.
I hope the series against MvP is going to change it though, as I am loading up the VODs now :D
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On January 12 2012 01:20 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:14 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:10 Hassybaby wrote:On January 12 2012 01:09 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:06 Asha` wrote:On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky I was going to respond, but then I read your sig lol =) I don't really know much about Lucky, but judging from g1 vs Idra and the series against MvP, I'd say Idra is better than Lucky, fanboyism aside. By the way, not all Idra fans are mindless retarded fucktards. Don't generalize us D: Post at me, bro =_= Idra 1 : 2 Lucky Lucky blindly harcountered Idra in G2, and hit a weeeiiird timing in G3. I dunno if he had Idra scouted up( I don't think he did), but he attacked just before his +2 upgrades finished. Like, it was a really weird timing, considering the upgrades wouldnt be finished when he engaged. It was a good call though, if he had waited(which would make more sense) he would most likely have lost. Finally Lucky got lucky :D Did we see the same game? Because in game 2 I saw Lucky holding off a big attack by Idra through roach number, then inning the upgrade war since Idra's upgrades were really late (in fact his Roach Warren was late as well) How is that a blind counter exactly? Game 3 was pretty weird, yeah.
Wasn't Lucky gearing up for a +1 roach timing attack...? As far as I know, Lucky didn't scout anything in particular that would give away Idra's strategy, and just massed roaches for a while before the attack
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Idra is pretty good for sure, but did anyone really think he was going to come out of this group alive?
There's also quite a bit of "I dont see Lucky play often therefore he's bad", which makes me sad because he's def someone I enjoy watching.
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To those bashing Idra for being in Korea, I'd like to remind everyone that not too long ago MC dropped into CODE B.
GSL is a ridiculously difficult tournament. If Idra got completely stomped it would be one thing. What happened was he took the series with Lucky to game 3, got a bit unlucky, made a few questionable decisions, and lost.
He is definitely at least the same level as Boxer and other Code S players.
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On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky
How did he lose then?
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Northern Ireland27248 Posts
Anyone can lose in a bo3 to almost anyone at the pro level. Consistency is what separates the top players from those not on the top. Not that I agree that Idra is better or worse than Lucky actually the two are both very strong players
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On January 12 2012 01:41 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky How did he lose then?
Maybe Lucky got lucky.
Sorry, it had to be done. Honestly though, this group went pretty much as expected. The foreigner hand-out seeds are cute and all but people really overrate the foreigners when they're playing in Code S, being Code S doesn't mean you're of the same caliber as the other Code S players because of the free seeds.
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On January 12 2012 00:40 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:13 Scribble wrote:On January 12 2012 00:00 HuKPOWA wrote:
and Idra is not worthy of Code S <3 Nestea showing his slump is over tho :D Losing a ZvZ 2-1 to a solid ZvZer and another 2-0 to somebody with a 90% winrate in the matchup is not a clear indicator of "not worthy of code S." He was the weakest ZvZ in the group. That's about the only real conclusion you can draw from that. Also, Nestea has not been slumping. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here: all-in, bonjwa, and slump are the most overused and misunderstood phrases on TL. I agree with that so much. Especially ALL IN. people on TL seem to think any type of aggression before 20 minutes of macro is considered all in.
I agree with the statement for the most part... But how can anyone say slump is overused and misunderstood?
Nestea hasn't been putting up the results that were expected of him since this summer. Being defeated by Naniwa at MLG Global invitational, Haypro at MLG Providence, BooonggBooongg in an AoL, Getting thrashed in his group at Blizzard Cup, and getting taken out by people not named MVP at GSLs recently.
But yeah, ALL in and Bonjwa are definitely overused and misunderstood (not that I'm an expert on Bonjwas)
Not putting up the results he's known for = slumping. Therefore it is fair to see Nestea was slumping. Beating MVP though is HUGE for Nestea. It's been a while since he beat MVP in a series, Nestea could indeed be coming back.
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On January 12 2012 01:32 mosfet wrote:
To those bashing Idra for being in Korea, I'd like to remind everyone that not too long ago MC dropped into CODE B.
Uh, yeah, and he deserved it. He was way behind in the metagame and his play was much worse than it currently is.
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On January 12 2012 01:41 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 01:04 Aocowns wrote:On January 12 2012 01:03 trinxified wrote:
I'm actually very surprised Idra won a single game... I was expecting nothing. Then you're kind of under estimating him I think... Idra is a stronger Zerg than Lucky How did he lose then?
Maybe because Lucky luckily blindcountered Idras attack in G2 with a roach +1 timing, which doesn't really give an accurate depiction of eithers skill what so ever. In the 3rd game, Lucky hit a lucky timing 10 secs before Idra's hydras, because he did a weird timing. Ever other player would have done the intelligent thing, and wait for the upgrades to hit, and not attack 30 seconds before they finish -.- I don't think Lucky had any information on Idra that could've triggered that kind of response. I think he just got lucky for once XD
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United States15275 Posts
Better take a picture. Only time I'll ever be in the top 10 of Liquibet.
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The MVP NesTea series isn't very good... Misleading polls.
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EPT
