Blizzcon Day 2 - Page 317

Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.

TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.

- p4NDemik

Goibon

New Zealand8185 Posts

October 23 2011 02:31 GMT

#6321

Wait a minute here.

If i 'accuse' someone of throwing a game (like TheWind vs SuperNova the season where MC was in their group) this = me accusing them of match fixing?

If so, then wow, just wow.

Because to me match fixing is a serious thing which hurts the integrity of ESPORTS and all that shit. But letting someone else win because they're your friend and you love them dearly doesn't even come close to that in my books. To me that's call human nature. Being a friend. Being nice.

Medrea

10003 Posts

October 23 2011 02:33 GMT

#6322

On October 23 2011 11:31 Goibon wrote:
Wait a minute here.

If i 'accuse' someone of throwing a game (like TheWind vs SuperNova the season where MC was in their group) this = me accusing them of match fixing?

If so, then wow, just wow.

Because to me match fixing is a serious thing which hurts the integrity of ESPORTS and all that shit. But letting someone else win because they're your friend and you love them dearly doesn't even come close to that in my books. To me that's call human nature. Being a friend. Being nice.

Nono. Thats not what is being discussed, it is more like the two players decided to split the end-prize pool in a manner that is not the same as what was being described.

Maybe 50/50, probably not, whose to say.

ZeromuS

Canada13410 Posts

October 23 2011 02:33 GMT

#6323

so no last minute announcements i take it?

forumtext

575 Posts

October 23 2011 02:34 GMT

#6324

I think Nestea just killed whatever is left of MVP's self-esteem after that last game...in front of the whole world and 4 BW pro!

bqm

94 Posts

October 23 2011 02:36 GMT

#6325

That is why I hate people who ACCUSED MVP + Nestea do match fixing, unless you got clear evident, the game is not fixing at all, you have to take a lot into account, MVP is not behind much even when he was 2000 min/4000 gas vs nestea 13000 min/5k gas, they both maxed out.

Said they give the game away is just straight up INSULTING them, and If they did not do it, then It is a serious crime to accuse them of fixing match.

Please people think twice before making judgement.

And It is not like NESTEA is a god and MVP is some unknown, MVP always win against nestea in practice game, when on equal max supply, split map, Do you think Zerg have higher chance of winning than terran??? what can he do there.

klops

United States674 Posts

October 23 2011 02:36 GMT

#6326

On October 23 2011 11:34 forumtext wrote:
I think Nestea just killed whatever is left of MVP's self-esteem after that last game...in front of the whole world and 4 BW pro!

?

by...losing?

does not compute.

duk3

United States807 Posts

October 23 2011 02:38 GMT

#6327

I don't really think this is a big deal even if they just decided to have fun with the games, as there is no proof of it anyways.
Sure they both probably could have played better, but you could blame it on being tired from travel if you want.
But it's happened before, there was a group in GSL May where oGsTheWind dropped both his games to oGsSuperNoVa and oGsMC and it looked like he wasn't trying to get them both some free wins in the group.
Additionally, there was an event where TT1 got mad at Fenix for deciding to split a prizepool, and then going back on his word.
These things happen, it's called being nice when it won't hurt you any. Mvp gets to win, and NesTea still gets some of the prize money along with the rest of IM (or is it QIM now?).

babylon

8765 Posts

October 23 2011 02:39 GMT

#6328

On October 23 2011 11:20 Terranist wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2011 11:18 babylon wrote:

On October 23 2011 11:14 Oreo7 wrote:

On October 23 2011 11:05 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:59 poorcloud wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:55 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:50 svefnleysi wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:45 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:43 Telcontar wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:38 Supdude wrote:
The game was entertaining. It's obviously fixed, but hey, they are on the same team. That's the way it is.

MVP took out Sen (rather easily), so Nestea gave him the title. It's a win-win. No wonder Nestea beat MVP so easily earlier.

Of course Nestea would be favored against Sen, too, but it's a much riskier proposition. ZvZ by nature is unpredictable, and Sen's ZvZ is his best matchup.

Now it all makes sense

Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Why would NesTea let MVP win if MVP beat Sen? Am I missing something here? Are you being sarcastic? Also, even if they had agreed to split the prize money beforehand, why would he just willingly give up the prestige that comes with winning the whole tournament? All you conspirators are also forgetting that the korean culture is quite different. If they had really fixed the outcome, it would've been NesTea winning the whole thing since he's the senior and holds authority over MVP.

People need to stop with this match-fixing bullshit now.

there is no conspiracy. it's just people failing to realize how a split map shakuras zvt plays out when you're a subpar zvt player against the best terran in the world.

Going 3-4 against "the best terran in the world" makes you a "subpar zvt player"?

despite all the gob that artosis pours out of his mouth during nestea matches, nestea is actually very weak against terran.

barely survives virus in ro16
manhandled by gumiho in WCG group stage
loses to MVP every time they meet
defeated by TOP in super tournament.

he has proven to be very ineffective vs terran

In between that, he has beaten MMA, Sc, Nada and Bomber. Also came to within 1 game of knocking out MVP in the GSL and now blizzcon.
Yes ZvT is one of his weak matchups, but you make it sound like hes a mid tier zerg when his z v t is still probably one of top 5 in korea.

there are probably only five zergs worth mentioning in korea at the moment as it stands. being the fifth best at zvt is not an accomplishment in my eyes.

people need to know that nestea is not indeed god and he will be exposed for what his zvt really is, exactly what we saw tonight.

Nestea, DRG, Coca, Losira, Curious, Lucky, Zenio, July, Leenock, Yugioh, Jookto, Revival, Boongboong. Pick 5.

For ZvT? I'm going to ignore the ones who aren't even in the GSL right now. Gotta go with:

DRG, Curious, Leenock, NesTea, CoCa -- not necessarily in that order, but they're the ones who really stand out for me. July maybe when he's done hibernating. CoCa's not really good at ZvT, but ... I can't see anyone else in that list I would pick, lol.

coca and losira are pretty abysmal at zvt as well. losira has serious problems defending early pressure.

Yeah, I have CoCa listed because I'm hoping his ZvT will get better now that he's on SlayerS, hahaha.

Honestly, DRG, Curious, Leenock, and NesTea are the only ones who've shown any promise. DRG's getting figured out though. Curious looked very good, but I need to see more of his ZvT (which I still think is his weakest match-up).

diophan

United States1018 Posts

October 23 2011 02:39 GMT

#6329

Is it perhaps more probable that they messing around a bit and wanting to win in an epic fashion? Also what exactly would be the point of fixing the match? What would they have to gain? Sure there might be a lot of money on the line, but I have the suspicion that when you win as much as them that's not nearly as big of a deal as it would be to one of us.

slicknav

1409 Posts

October 23 2011 02:43 GMT

#6330

I don't understand why people are assuming match fixing because Nestea didn't play good. Believe it or not he is human, he can mistakes, he can have bad days, he can get fatigued, and he can choke under pressure.

Reapher

Peru131 Posts

October 23 2011 02:45 GMT

#6331

Yea because getting dropped and nuked constantly doesn't contribute to ultimately make bad decisions on a 41min last game (after being ahead on the series). Come on, Nestea is human; its so retarded for people to straight up acuse him of match fixing.
Nestea fanboys need to stop making fkin drama.

Tomken

Norway1144 Posts

October 23 2011 02:45 GMT

#6332

PRETENDERRRRRR

Bowzer

Canada214 Posts

October 23 2011 02:46 GMT

#6333

Foo Fighters :D

Qaatar

1409 Posts

October 23 2011 02:46 GMT

#6334

On October 23 2011 11:27 Terranist wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2011 11:20 Qaatar wrote:

On October 23 2011 11:14 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 11:08 Medrea wrote:

On October 23 2011 11:05 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:59 poorcloud wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:55 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:50 svefnleysi wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:45 Terranist wrote:

On October 23 2011 10:43 Telcontar wrote:
[quote]
Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Why would NesTea let MVP win if MVP beat Sen? Am I missing something here? Are you being sarcastic? Also, even if they had agreed to split the prize money beforehand, why would he just willingly give up the prestige that comes with winning the whole tournament? All you conspirators are also forgetting that the korean culture is quite different. If they had really fixed the outcome, it would've been NesTea winning the whole thing since he's the senior and holds authority over MVP.

People need to stop with this match-fixing bullshit now.

there is no conspiracy. it's just people failing to realize how a split map shakuras zvt plays out when you're a subpar zvt player against the best terran in the world.

Going 3-4 against "the best terran in the world" makes you a "subpar zvt player"?

There are some ok numbers for zerg though. According to TLPD, 3 of the first 5 are zergs.

Although the top ten are indeed 3 zergs and 7 terrans.

i'm not a nestea hater, but people are living in this crazy delusion that he is invincible when in fact he rode to his most recent GSL finals on a terran light path and it created massive hype for something that doesn't exist anymore.

Pretty sure as yesterday's GSL finals proved, no one can come close to "invincible." However, it's pretty much safe to assume that MVP and NesTea have the least amount of weaknesses compared to everyone else.

This means, if every pro SC2 player in the world gathered to play a round robin tournament, with each series decided by Bo7's, throwing fatigue and other extraneous factors out the window, NesTea and MVP will probably have the highest overall winning percentages when it's all said and done. I think that's what people more or less "assume" - and rightly so. Obviously, no one literally or figuratively believes that NesTea is invincible at SC2.

it's possible that in your scenario nestea and MVP would come out on top, but that isn't a real world tournament application. nestea has recently had some pretty bad flaws exposed by terran, especially with protecting his workers from hellions or playing late game situations. this wasn't a lock for him and it certainly wasn't him gifting the game to MVP as people are claiming.

Of course this isn't a lock, but I don't think that is necessarily the same group of people who are claiming that he gifted MVP the game. For one thing, as being a huge MVP fan myself, even I'm not convinced that NesTea played anywhere close to what he usually displays in a TvZ - which isn't the best in the world, I know.

No one is surprised at the result - everyone knows MVP has NesTea's number, and is most likely the better overall player, especially in TvZ. Some, however, are just surprised at the last game.

Edit: I'm am NOT claiming match fixing or anything close to the sort. There are many factors to consider here. I'm just a little bewildered by NesTea's decisions in that game.

diophan

United States1018 Posts

October 23 2011 02:46 GMT

#6335

On October 23 2011 11:45 Reapher wrote:
Come on, Nestea is human

You mean Artosis has been lying to me this whole time???

SharkWithLaz0rs

19 Posts

October 23 2011 02:46 GMT

#6336

In my opinion, NesTea made mistakes in that last game that were just totally out of character for him. That leads me to believe that he wasn't taking it as seriously as you'd like.

- He let a base full of drones get nuked not once but twice. Seeing someone as good as NesTea let this happen even once would be shocking. Seeing it happen twice makes me think he wasn't taking the whole situation seriously.

- He completely botched that doom drop. He didn't micro his units at all during the initial part of the drop, and then made a totally nonsensical decision in charging his overlords full of banelings at a bunch of ghosts. Then he left a bunch of overlords to die in his base, even while he was supply blocked. NesTea, when he is locked in and playing like his usual self, just does not make micro errors like this.

- As others have pointed out, he had a massive bank of minerals and just opted not to really use it.

- The brood lord spam at the end was a silly choice of units to make given that MVP has massed ghosts and vikings.

I just feel like the two of them were trying to give us a good show. It WAS highly entertaining, don't get me wrong. But it just didn't look like NesTea was really going for the throat in that game.

dtz

5834 Posts

October 23 2011 02:47 GMT

#6337

Split potting is really not match fixing though....

When you split pot, you agree to split the winnings and you still play out without predetermining the winner. It's just that the prize money is split ( can be 50-50, can be 60-40 to the winners etc). They are still playing for the title and glory and maybe a little bit of money.

Match fixing means you predetermine who the winner/loser will be.

According to many pros( fayth, TT1-fenix incident) , split potting is really common so it can't be ruled out. But, to say that they were match-fixing is a serious baseless accusation of which I don't see the benefit for either players.

But it did seem that Nestea made really grave mistakes that I wouldn't expect someone of his calibre ( or any Korean GSL zergs) to make. That's unfortunate.

Ansinjunger

United States2451 Posts

October 23 2011 02:48 GMT

#6338

Just got home--did it really come down to Nestea vs Mvp in the finals? I can't argue with Liquipedia I guess. I realize that that was the most likely of any one outcome, but statistically, you'd think all of the other possible outcomes combined would be greater. Nestea's like, "No, we're actually just the two best players in the Blizzcon tournament (and the world)...what did you expect?"

j4vz

Canada976 Posts

October 23 2011 02:50 GMT

#6339

well guys think about it, he got supply blocked the whole game he had 14K minerals why not make more overlords ? more hatch ?

any platinum players would have won with that lead... i dont know what to say

Bowzer

Canada214 Posts

October 23 2011 02:52 GMT

#6340

As long as they play everlong, I'll be happy

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