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On October 11 2011 23:37 JWD wrote:
In game 2, why didn't NesTea place his macro hatchery and maybe even his roach warren at his door (rather than floating in his main)? This was a common tactic for fending off vulture harass in BW...don't see why it isn't ever used in SC2.
Weird.
Edit: Nestea did the same thing in game 3 o.o macro hatch in main. I wonder what this is about.
guessing here since i can't read Nesteas brain, but with the high dps on stimmed marines and the long siege tank range the macro hatch at the ramp (or even below it) is very vulnerable if you are caught out of position slightly.
You can usually run home and surround the attacker if he goes up your ramp, but buildings within range of the ramp itself can be sniped very easily and fast if you give vision with a medivac.
Considering how much damage he took though i think he should have invested in 2 spare evo chambers to narrow that choke and blocked it with a hold position queen. Thats something Zerg almost never do, but it can make or break your game if you do. If you are caught completly out of position, loosing the evos isn't as painfull (as long as you build spares and upgrade from those) compared to loosing a hatch, and it will still block hellions.
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hahaha mvp definitely got the mass hellion opening from mkp 4-1'ing drg.
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Glad that MVP won, the guy is untouchable right now. The only one that can stop him is CLIIIIIIIIDE!
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On October 12 2011 01:26 GotTheLife wrote:
Glad that MVP won, the guy is untouchable right now. The only one that can stop him is CLIIIIIIIIDE!
3-2 is not untouchable.
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On October 12 2011 01:20 sitromit wrote:
When Drones get stim and Hellions are melee range only, maybe people can begin to split Drones as well as Terrans spread Marines against Banes, until then, LOL at the Drone splitting comments.
Lol I know right? Split your drones! Uh sure, when there's like 4 red flame hellions. But any more? Lol.
I think Nestea has not had enough time to diagnose MVP's reactor hellion --> fast third build, because I don't think any 2 base response is good enough unless MVP messes up big time. I think you have to take a gamble. The first hellions come out around 4:45 I believe, and get to your base around 5:00 or so? Now the general response is:
- Get fast speed and use spine + queen + sim city while getting Lair tech
- Use Roaches to clear Hellions, then either take third or get delayed Lair off 2 base.
The problem with option 1 is that if he gets Blue Flame, you're going to suffer a LOT of losses, and he can still have a fast uncontested third, which is basically gg. The problem with option 2 is that although now you can put pressure on his third with roach ling, he was able to tech faster than you straight to tanks now that your Lair is delayed, so your pressure might not do anything.
I think in the time period before the hellions get to your base, you have to send out a drone and take a fast third before making roaches or anything (5 min third, similar to response against FFE). It's a calculated risk. If he is taking a fast third, yours will finish faster, and he won't have the infrastructure to pressure your third without cutting scvs and/or tech. If he isn't taking a fast third and fails to scout yours (I mean, how often do Terrans send hellions to check your third that fast? Almost never. They need all of them together to deny creep) then great, you're way ahead. If he does scout it and ISN'T taking a fast third, and comes with marine pressure to take it out, then simply cancel and play 2 base vs 2 base and you'll be even or ahead in econ since he invested in marines to kill ur third.
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Just finished watching the MVP vs Nestea series (saw much of Ganzi vs Supernova live), and it was well worth watching and very epic! From watching MVP vs Nestea, I'm even more convinced that Tastosis was unfair towards Ganzi and Supernova and misled the viewers alot.
For instance, in MVP vs Nestea, there were a few instances of bad engagements by Nestea and Tasteless will usually jump on the "he shouldn't be attacking here". But of course, it was Nestea playing. In game3, MVP even accidentally attacked his own tank(!) but of course, that wasn't "sloppy play".
Regardless, when watching the series, I felt that there were distinct tactical and strategical mistakes made by both players. I thought their play was on a higher level than Ganzi/Supernova, but not as much as Tastosis would've led us to believe. Ganzi/Supernova was not a classic series, but it was a tense slugfest, and Tasteless' "jobber v jobber" comment was very unfair.
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I saw all the games except for the first one. I thought MVP would beat Nestea but man, I was really rooting for Nestea there. He even came back from losing like 27 drones to early blue flame in game two I think it was. Unfortunately this means it's probably gonna be a cake-walk to another finals victory for MVP.
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France12911 Posts
On October 12 2011 01:36 Azzur wrote:
Just finished watching the MVP vs Nestea series (saw much of Ganzi vs Supernova live), and it was well worth watching and very epic! From watching MVP vs Nestea, I'm even more convinced that Tastosis was unfair towards Ganzi and Supernova and misled the viewers alot.
For instance, in MVP vs Nestea, there were a few instances of bad engagements by Nestea and Tasteless will usually jump on the "he shouldn't be attacking here". But of course, it was Nestea playing. In game3, MVP even accidentally attacked his own tank(!) but of course, that wasn't "sloppy play".
Regardless, when watching the series, I felt that there were distinct tactical and strategical mistakes made by both players. I thought their play was on a higher level than Ganzi/Supernova, but not as much as Tastosis would've led us to believe. Ganzi/Supernova was not a classic series, but it was a tense slugfest, and Tasteless' "jobber v jobber" comment was very unfair.
GanZi vs SuperNova was good, they played really well.
But I think Tastosis are so used to mech or bio vs mech that they don't remember/understand marine/tank anymore
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On October 12 2011 01:23 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:16 kabar wrote:On October 12 2011 01:14 Flonomenalz wrote:
Lol people all over Artosis about his Nestea love. Get over it. The Ganzi Supernova games were sub par and sloppy, so of course they would criticize it in comparison to the games beforehand. it's been going on for a while. i know, personally i think it's hilarious, but who cares, they still offer near perfect insight on what's going on in the game, and always gave credit to mvp. people need to calm down.
It's hilarious at the beginning. But when you do it 20 times a day for 1 month, it is not funny at all.
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Wow just came back from school and none the game in the ganzi vs supernova series were recommended. Were the games that bad or is it just because u just saw NesTea vs MVP before .
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Aww yes! Came down to game 5 as I had hoped, and MVP won as most people would have expected. That's awesome!
I'm actually quite surprised Ganzi vs Supernova was that close. I suppose Ganzi doesn't have the best TvT record, but he has still shown to be pretty strong in the matchup from what I had seen, but I guess looking at each players TvT records it isn't too surprising.
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On October 12 2011 01:40 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:23 Flonomenalz wrote:On October 12 2011 01:16 kabar wrote:On October 12 2011 01:14 Flonomenalz wrote:
Lol people all over Artosis about his Nestea love. Get over it. The Ganzi Supernova games were sub par and sloppy, so of course they would criticize it in comparison to the games beforehand. it's been going on for a while. i know, personally i think it's hilarious, but who cares, they still offer near perfect insight on what's going on in the game, and always gave credit to mvp. people need to calm down. It's hilarious at the beginning. But when you do it 20 times a day for 1 month, it is not funny at all.
ok, what if they were commentating BW and talking about jaedong, would u still have a problem with it?
probably not.
calm down.
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On October 12 2011 01:41 Yaki wrote:
Wow just came back from school and none the game in the ganzi vs supernova series were recommended. Were the games that bad or is it just because u just saw NesTea vs MVP before .
I liked them. Lots of hate from Tastosis, with Tasteless saying "this game is the worst game I've ever casted" every game and Artosis talking about how he doesn't floss / what his favourite Street Fighter character is / other stupid crap like that, but in actuality the games were quite action packed with lots of back-and-forth. In terms of textbook, these games definitely weren't, but in terms of entertainment - highly.
I'm guessing all the TL hate for this series is due to three things:
1. Both players made key mistakes that reversed their leads (although I don't see how this is bad, for the game to swing both ways so you don't know who will win)
2. Tastosis hating on the games all day long
3. People are just plain sick of TvT
I still think they were good. My favourites are Game 3 Dual Sight and Game 4 Daybreak. Both players were controlling two separate armies on the map, all manoeuvring around each other to trap the other armies. When you are controlling two separate armies like that, trying to pincer someone else who is trying to pincer you at the same time, mistakes are bound to happen. People just focused on the mistakes ("wow they suicide their tanks more than in code A season 1", etc), not the strategic brilliance involved with scanning and positioning.
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On October 12 2011 01:49 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:40 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On October 12 2011 01:23 Flonomenalz wrote:On October 12 2011 01:16 kabar wrote:On October 12 2011 01:14 Flonomenalz wrote:
Lol people all over Artosis about his Nestea love. Get over it. The Ganzi Supernova games were sub par and sloppy, so of course they would criticize it in comparison to the games beforehand. it's been going on for a while. i know, personally i think it's hilarious, but who cares, they still offer near perfect insight on what's going on in the game, and always gave credit to mvp. people need to calm down. It's hilarious at the beginning. But when you do it 20 times a day for 1 month, it is not funny at all. ok, what if they were commentating BW and talking about jaedong, would u still have a problem with it? probably not. calm down.
Because Nestea lost, if Jaedong lose, and they still praise like that, of course I will have problem about that. Last time when Nestea won, it is even worse.
There are times when you can praise loser more than the winner. But that is not one of those times.
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On October 12 2011 01:49 Warlock40 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 01:41 Yaki wrote:
Wow just came back from school and none the game in the ganzi vs supernova series were recommended. Were the games that bad or is it just because u just saw NesTea vs MVP before . I liked them. Lots of hate from Tastosis, with Tasteless saying "this game is the worst game I've ever casted" every game and Artosis talking about how he doesn't floss / what his favourite Street Fighter character is / other stupid crap like that, but in actuality the games were quite action packed with lots of back-and-forth. In terms of textbook, these games definitely weren't, but in terms of entertainment - highly. I'm guessing all the TL hate for this series is due to three things: 1. Both players made key mistakes that reversed their leads (although I don't see how this is bad, for the game to swing both ways so you don't know who will win) 2. Tastosis hating on the games all day long 3. People are just plain sick of TvT I still think they were good. My favourites are Game 3 Dual Sight and Game 4 Daybreak. Both players were controlling two separate armies on the map, all manoeuvring around each other to trap the other armies. When you are controlling two separate armies like that, trying to pincer someone else who is trying to pincer you at the same time, mistakes are bound to happen. People just focused on the mistakes ("wow they suicide their tanks more than in code A season 1", etc), not the strategic brilliance involved with scanning and positioning.
I'm not sure about it man. I got really frustrated at the multiple 20+ kills lone banshees at the mineral line. Or the dancing of marines within siege tank lines.
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The mech tvz style was very interesting but I wonder why mvp saved his biomech play until the last game. Must be easier on his wrists I guess. Go ahead and win yourself your 4th gsl title!
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On October 12 2011 01:41 Yaki wrote:
Wow just came back from school and none the game in the ganzi vs supernova series were recommended. Were the games that bad or is it just because u just saw NesTea vs MVP before .
Because tastosis said the games were bad, so everyone voted on bad -_-
They weren't playing Bomber level TvT but it was really entertaining.
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MVP is going for his 4th Championship! ;D
GO Terrans, I hope Finals against a Zerg. TvZ is just by far the most entertaining matchup 
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no the games were bad from a standpoint that the games we should be watching are high level..ganzi vs supernova was the furthest thing from it
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It's up to CoCa now to decide if I'll watch the semis/finals, but who cares right?
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EPT
