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Rarak
Australia631 Posts
On June 16 2011 11:49 Mailing wrote: Zenio did a coin flip 9pool and was lucky enough to get the position to scout idra first. How is idra arrogant to say he didn't earn it? Because the standard is to gg. To not do so is BM. If you do not understand this you are either trolling or thick. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
Zenio has always seemed to be one meta-step ahead of IdrA in ZvZ. | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:19 Itsmedudeman wrote: they most certainly have I also remember when kyrix did a 7 pool and pulled drones TWICE against losira to what should have been a hard counter to 15 hatch and he held it off both times Also, idra held off the initial 10 pool and brought it back to even until the second attack won it for zenio I remember those games, kyrix didnt really micro at all was really really bad micro. | ||
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Cayn
Germany173 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:18 caruso wrote: I'm clearly no professional gamer, but shouldn't you be able to tell from your opponent's army size, his expansion timing and the upgrades on his roaches, that something is up when an amount like 1.300 gas are stacked off of twobase? he had no intel cause zenio was smart enough to send the overlords home with queen mommy | ||
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Roffu
United States143 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:19 Kanuck wrote: The best part is: IdrA left Korea to compete in easier tournaments with a still large prize pool. And as soon as he does, Koreans start participating in western tournaments. lol IdrA. Although i will say thers merit to the IdrA earns money from BM, especially since his streaming pulls in more cash than if he won most of these tournaments anyways, Hahaha I thought exactly the same thing, they were like trololol you leave GSL we follow u to NASL and MLG to make sure you never win muahahaha. On a serious note, zergs use mutas in zvz way more often than the casters made it to be. | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:13 bobwhiz wrote: Idra is a bit like Stork, but with much lower placements. Please never refer to IdrA and Stork in the same sentence. Unless it's about that time that Stork cheesed IdrA out of WCG LOL | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:20 Defacer wrote: I'm a fan of IdrA, but I'm not surprised at all. Zenio has always seemed to be one meta-step ahead of IdrA in ZvZ. I agree. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
The bigger story is just that in ZvZ, a match where IdrA is by all means awesome, he got completely worked by Zenio. That's what people should be talking about, Zenio's excellent play. When Jaedong got his quick spire vs Stork in G2 on Katrina at the EVER 2007 finals, the discussion wasn't about it being a stupid all in or anything else. It was HOLY FUCK JAEDONG IS THE GODDAMN MAN THAT WAS AMAZING, and that's what this discussion should be imo. | ||
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MenSol[ZerO]
Canada1134 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:20 Rarak wrote: Because the standard is to gg. To not do so is BM. If you do not understand this you are either trolling or thick. its not really a coinflip when you play idra on a huge macro map and know he will hatch first, zenio just read him very well | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
First game, big map, so ofc Idra goes 15h because he's a greedy macro player. Zenio guesses correctly and simply does a 9p and rapes it. 15h > 14e14p > 9p > 15h is the basic ZvZ dynamic. Second game, Idra just got 9p so he's scared to go 15h again, so ofc he goes 14e14p which is middle of the road build. Zenio does the same because he's confident he's a better player than Idra. You see how that works? He doesn't go greedy econ build because he thinks he's better. He goes the SAME middle of the road. Then, Idra diverges into 21/22h roach/ling timing attack. Zenio, with his earlier banes, intelligently identifies what Idra is going for and drops 2 spines and uses banes/lings to ward Idra off long enough to get enough larvae to wipe out the timing attack. Idra was already WAY behind after doing this timing attack! He caught up in drones sure, but Zenio had the same drone count for 2 minutes longer AND got 2 spines out of it AND got baneling nest along with roach tech and got +1 range attack. Quite simply, Idra's timing attack failed. Then, when things diverged AGAIN, Zenio stayed light on roaches, opting to use more lings and a few banes to conserve gas, and was on 3 gas long before Idra was. So he got way ahead in gas both because less roaches and more gas mining. THEN he dropped a spire and tech switched to muta. This was not luck. This was not a coinflip. This was not an unavoidable loss. Idra could have easily sent an overseer to scout. Idra easily could have built some speedlings to make a more aggressive attempt to scout Zenio's army composition rather than just relying on roach pokes to see the tip of Zenio's units. Idra had all day to figure out what was going on. Instead, Idra threw up a third and tried to drone it up and went for the absolutely typical roach/infestor composition. So basically, Game 2 Zenio had brilliant brilliant counter builds to Idra's 21h roach/ling timing attack, then a brilliant timing attack of his own to hit Idra in the TINY TINY window that a straight up roach mass 3 base infestor build is vulnerable to. And Idra repeatedly telegraphed what HE had by sending ALL his roaches in his scouting pokes. Thereby giving his opponent more info than he gained with HIS scouting attempts. The epitome of stupid. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:21 Moralez wrote: I remember those games, kyrix didnt really micro at all was really really bad micro. and idra didn't micro well enough in these games to hold off zenio's attack and zenio micro'd better | ||
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DrakeFZX3
United States925 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:18 Moralez wrote: Read what i said about nestea, hes pretty good but hes lost vs other zerg because of coin flips . Coinflip implies that what Dimaga did was purely luck and not based off what he saw. And you're discrediting Dimaga's win over NesTea. NesTea was goin Hatch first all the time and Dimaga punished him for it. And Zenio's 6-0 against Idra is not luck or "coinflip" no matter how much you say it. | ||
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caruso
Germany733 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:21 Cayn wrote: he had no intel cause zenio was smart enough to send the overlords home with queen mommy But Zenio's army was right on IdrA's doorstep all the time. | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
Your eyes can deceive you. Be mindful of your feelings. Trust your STARSENSE. It's what separates good players from stars. There are no accidents. We make our own luck. And yea, you should always say gg. The number of gg's said is where progamers draw their strength. It flows through all games played. | ||
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Z3kk
4099 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:09 fartdra wrote: idra is the lebron of sc2 HAHA that's actually a really good analogy, though Idra is not considered among the best in all of SC2, good though he is. | ||
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ken-
63 Posts
He lost game 1 then taunted Zenio to "earn" another win... then Zenio did. If you can't find the comedy in that then you are just being a stubborn fanboy. | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:21 Jibba wrote: It saddens me that the 'gg talk' is still the driving conversation topic. :/ We've had this debate for probably a year now, since HDH made an overinflated issue out of it, and there's really nothing left to discuss. The bigger story is just that in ZvZ, a match where IdrA is by all means awesome, he got completely worked by Zenio. That's what people should be talking about, Zenio's awesome decision. When Jaedong got his quick spire vs Stork in G2 on Katrina at the EVER 2007 finals, the discussion wasn't about it being a stupid all in or anything else. It was HOLY FUCK JAEDONG IS THE GODDAMN MAN THAT WAS AMAZING, and that's what this discussion should be imo. I still dont understand how people talk about the GG subject after every single idra game. | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:15 Mailing wrote: Because nobody has tried coin-flip builds against nestea in GSL, they play games with skill instead of luck. Dimaga did it in the GSL world championship, and beat NesTea with a 10 pool See my point here? Dimaga knew Nestea would do a FE on Xelnaga Caverns. Yes he did a build order win, but that was a very safe move that he planned ahead of time. That is strategy. Either way, game 2 Zenio just out played IdrA, and game 1 he planned on doing a strategy that he thought would win, and it did. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
I agree, thats why in zvz as soon as my lair starts I scout. If I feel I made a slower lair then normal I make an overseer, or use overlord speed to scout. Thought Idra was going to do this with overlord speed (he would have seen the spire and could have gotten spores in time). Sadly he didn't do that and just assumed no spire :/. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:21 tyCe wrote: Please never refer to IdrA and Stork in the same sentence. Unless it's about that time that Stork cheesed IdrA out of WCG LOL Hahaha this has got to be the best post I've read in this thread | ||
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