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On March 29 2011 22:59 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:43 HowardRoark wrote:On March 29 2011 22:31 Rustug wrote:
It's a real buzz-kill to read that so many posters are sadly complaining about the players that were not selected for Korea, instead of cheering for the Korean team that actually won.
Whomever they would have selected could have won or could have lost. Same goes for the World Allstars. Last time I checked SC2 had not produced a Bonjwa (yet), so all you can say in my humble opinion: The Korean Team won, it was not a walkover and the World Allstars showed a solid performance.
StarCraft 2 Fighting!! Well, I doubt it ever will be a bonjwa in Sc2, since the lowered mechanical skills needed, many games will be decided by strategy, build orders and coin flip situations at top level. And, with Terran perhaps about to reach the mechanical skill cap in Sc2 soon at pro level (and Protoss already reached it), only Zerg will be able to continue develop, while in BW no one from Z, T and P have yet reached the mech. skill level as of yet (or did.Flash almost go there for a while?) If you assume mechanical skill is the one deciding factor when we are talking about the skill ceiling yes. My problem is the bolded part. You put it as if strategy is a limited factor, and then add buld order like it isn't a part of the strategy. Sure there are "build order losses" and if those are unavoidable then we can get your coin flip situations. But we aren't there yet (at least I'm not convinced) and strategy can theoretically have almost infinite high skill ceiling regardless of mechanics. Which we can see in all games played is far from perfect. You might very well be right that the game won't permit any player to become a bonjwa, but personally still think it's possible (assuming a few evident flaws of the game get patched) for players to rise above their piers by simply outsmarting them.
I don't know, I have to say mechanics is the single hardest thing and the single biggest difference between SC and SC2.
The game has been out less than a year, I think if there was already a huge gap between players that it would be an issue. Like CatZ stated in his post the other day, at this point in time with this small gap, can we really say the gap is closing, or can we possibly say this could be the BEGINNING of the gap increasing. Based on dedication and infrastructure, the gap could grow between Koreans and the foreigners. A HUGE hypothetical IF though.
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On March 29 2011 22:50 HQuality wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:48 HolyArrow wrote:
I do think people are underrating SuperNova here. He did almost beat LosirA, and he won the recent FXOpen. I'd probably have SuperNova as a strong contendor for the last spot as well. all in oGs house incl even MC saying that SuperNova is one of the best terrans and players in Korea, sooo and his TvP is sooo good, really nice to terran has such a sick TvP
an oGs player saying that another oGs player is really good, that can't possibly have any bias 
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On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:45 HQuality wrote:On March 29 2011 22:42 exterminatus wrote:
Dimaga, White-Ra +1
Huk,Moonglade,Jinro -1 huk and moonglade have already -5 at least then :D :D funny that people continuing to put them inda their World Team. soooooo overhyped really Kas, GoOdy instead of this two would be a huge difference *not trollin, srsly Kas ok BUT GOODY??? He's not that good man... edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth
huk and moonglade represent their regions so no goody or kas instead, what you sugest, europe vs korea?
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On March 29 2011 22:58 kaileah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:54 andrewlt wrote:On March 29 2011 22:49 HolyArrow wrote:On March 29 2011 22:48 Reasonable wrote:
So, everyone except for July managed to hide their primary strategies. That sucks for the world players so immensely that it cannot be overexaggerated
The REAL championship will unveil itself tomorrow! WhiteRa and Dimaga better not get relaxed as stakes considerably rise and Koreans still have most of their aces under sleeves. A friend of mine pointed that out. He was like "Well, it looks like July is the sacrifice for Korea's honor. He's showing his actual important strategies before the main tournament to pull out wins." He's July, though. He's had the same style for years and people haven't figured it out yet. Or people have figured it out but still lose to it. july is what kobe bryant is for all star weekend. where as everyone else just doesn't care and just goes out to have fun, july seems to be that one guy who has the no nonsense attitude. koreans were going for carriers, motherships, and battlecruisers, and other fun strats while smiling and laughing on their benches, where as july played as if he were in the gsl finals or trying for a legit all-kill.
You really don't know how much the Koreans care.. To lose in Starcraft, which you play everyday as a professional, sacrificing your education, livelihood, friends, family and employment prospects, and in a country where gaming for a living still has a huge social stigma despite its esports scene, is a big deal. To lose against "foreigners", who are regarded in Koreas as chobos/noobs (some Koreans even believe "foreigners" are genetically worse), especially foreigners who train less and aren't fully professional (oh come on, most of them live with their mothers, have other jobs, have college, etc etc) is UTTER humiliation.
You never saw how hard ToSsGirL cried when she lost to IdrA. She didn't have an inflated view of herself as a progamer but IdrA was a "foreigner" and she felt she let the whole of Korea down.
You can bet that the first few losses would have been felt like humiliations in Korea, showmatch or not. Korea put out their all-star team, their best of the best, against a somewhat ragtag "World Team", one of whom is even married with a day job and a kid.
For MC, arrogant, confident, most successful SC2 progamer ever, to lose against White-Ra is almost like as if the US Dream Team lost to an over-age semi-pro basketball team from Ukraine.
Edit: that metaphor was not meant to demean White-Ra, protoss god that he is, but to explain what a Korean fan not following SC2 outside Korea may believe
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On March 29 2011 23:06 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 23:05 HQuality wrote:On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote:
Kas ok
BUT GOODY???
He's not that good man...
edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth ye sjow prob or socke or even nani dunno man, goody's micro is bad, but he is taking SOOOOO much tourneys for last 2 month ... players are starting to figure out his mech play so his mediocore mechanics will come out on top
If people are starting to figure out his play, how come he is doing better than ever, and was the "top dog" in the last Tournament Roundup?
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On March 29 2011 22:09 Jotoco wrote:
Today would be the day I could say:
"Put your clothes back woman! I'm watching starcraft!"
hahaha you da man
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On March 29 2011 23:01 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:54 red4ce wrote:On March 29 2011 22:46 cordlc wrote:
Kind of off topic, but people keep bringing up how MVP would have lost his game against Ryung had he not been caught off-guard or the patch came out... It's important to keep in mind that MVP was aiming to get Battlecruisers the entire game, which is why he started air upgrades early, and why he was losing the ground war so badly.
My personal top 8 Korean team:
MC
Alicia
Losira
July
NesTea
MVP
(Ryung / MMA / MarineKing / Bomber), any two
No MKP for sure. With larger maps and the new patch his signature style is officially outdated. In the current mappool and metagame he's definitely a step below the other elite terrans. I'd leave out Ryung also simply because he's relatively more untested in non TvT's compared to the other 2. Did you not see MMA vs MVP??? Watch it. These bigger maps promote heavy Bio Play becaseu of the mobility abuse. Yesterday i plaed a Ladder game on Tal and raped my opponent with Pure Medic Marine. Dropping all over the place sniping tanks mass Expanding. Tanks are 3 food and cover little in SC2
Nope, unfortunately I missed it. Will have to check it out for sure. But was it pure marine+medivac style which MKP became famous for?
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On March 29 2011 23:05 HQuality wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote:
Kas ok
BUT GOODY???
He's not that good man...
edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth ye sjow prob or socke or even nani dunno man, goody's micro is bad, but he is taking SOOOOO much tourneys for last 2 month ...
Well yeah, but still compared to some of the other europeans, I still think he's not top 10 yet.
TSL has shown us a number of excellent players i.e Thorzain who played beautifully or Adel
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On March 29 2011 23:08 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:58 kaileah wrote:On March 29 2011 22:54 andrewlt wrote:On March 29 2011 22:49 HolyArrow wrote:On March 29 2011 22:48 Reasonable wrote:
So, everyone except for July managed to hide their primary strategies. That sucks for the world players so immensely that it cannot be overexaggerated
The REAL championship will unveil itself tomorrow! WhiteRa and Dimaga better not get relaxed as stakes considerably rise and Koreans still have most of their aces under sleeves. A friend of mine pointed that out. He was like "Well, it looks like July is the sacrifice for Korea's honor. He's showing his actual important strategies before the main tournament to pull out wins." He's July, though. He's had the same style for years and people haven't figured it out yet. Or people have figured it out but still lose to it. july is what kobe bryant is for all star weekend. where as everyone else just doesn't care and just goes out to have fun, july seems to be that one guy who has the no nonsense attitude. koreans were going for carriers, motherships, and battlecruisers, and other fun strats while smiling and laughing on their benches, where as july played as if he were in the gsl finals or trying for a legit all-kill. You really don't know how much the Koreans care.. To lose in Starcraft, which you play everyday as a professional, sacrificing your education, livelihood, friends, family and employment prospects, and in a country where gaming for a living still has a huge social stigma despite its esports scene, is a big deal. To lose against "foreigners", who are regarded in Koreas as chobos/noobs (some Koreans even believe "foreigners" are genetically worse), especially foreigners who train less and aren't fully professional (oh come on, most of them live with their mothers, have other jobs, have college, etc etc) is UTTER humiliation. You never saw how hard ToSsGirL cried when she lost to IdrA. She didn't have an inflated view of herself as a progamer but IdrA was a "foreigner" and she felt she let the whole of Korea down. You can bet that the first few losses would have been felt like humiliations in Korea, showmatch or not. Korea put out their all-star team, their best of the best, against a somewhat ragtag "World Team", one of whom is even married with a day job and a kid. For MC, arrogant, confident, most successful SC2 progamer ever, to lose against White-Ra is almost like as if the US Dream Team lost to an over-age semi-pro basketball team from Ukraine.
you put it brilliantly, however i would say sc2 in korea is taken MUCH more lighly than sc bw
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On March 29 2011 23:08 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:58 kaileah wrote:On March 29 2011 22:54 andrewlt wrote:On March 29 2011 22:49 HolyArrow wrote:On March 29 2011 22:48 Reasonable wrote:
So, everyone except for July managed to hide their primary strategies. That sucks for the world players so immensely that it cannot be overexaggerated
The REAL championship will unveil itself tomorrow! WhiteRa and Dimaga better not get relaxed as stakes considerably rise and Koreans still have most of their aces under sleeves. A friend of mine pointed that out. He was like "Well, it looks like July is the sacrifice for Korea's honor. He's showing his actual important strategies before the main tournament to pull out wins." He's July, though. He's had the same style for years and people haven't figured it out yet. Or people have figured it out but still lose to it. july is what kobe bryant is for all star weekend. where as everyone else just doesn't care and just goes out to have fun, july seems to be that one guy who has the no nonsense attitude. koreans were going for carriers, motherships, and battlecruisers, and other fun strats while smiling and laughing on their benches, where as july played as if he were in the gsl finals or trying for a legit all-kill. For MC, arrogant, confident, most successful SC2 progamer ever, to lose against White-Ra is almost like as if the US Dream Team lost to an over-age semi-pro basketball team from Ukraine. Edit: that metaphor was not meant to demean White-Ra, protoss god that he is, but to explain what a Korean fan not following SC2 outside Korea may believe
Did you see MC's twitter after the FXOpen? He was certainly humbled quite a bit. Don't think he ever regarded White-Ra as some old farmer with a wife who only plays 10 games a week. Perhaps some of the Korean netizens think so, but I'm sure MC knows better, especially with other foreigners on his team.
Edit: and yes, SC2 is not taken seriously by a majority of Koreans anyways (atm). Being relegated to second class progaming status in the eyes of public probably isn't a good feeling. I see foreign competition doing to Korea two things:
1. They will swallow their pride, work even harder, and SC2 explodes in Korea.
2. They will see it as an even more inferior game, the talent stops funneling in (unless Blizz does something about it with Kespa), and SC2 dies in Korea.
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On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:45 HQuality wrote:On March 29 2011 22:42 exterminatus wrote:
Dimaga, White-Ra +1
Huk,Moonglade,Jinro -1 huk and moonglade have already -5 at least then :D :D funny that people continuing to put them inda their World Team. soooooo overhyped really Kas, GoOdy instead of this two would be a huge difference *not trollin, srsly Kas ok BUT GOODY??? He's not that good man... edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth
LOL AGREE. GOODY? Jesus people are giving that guy WAY too much credit. lol.
Kas would have been a good addition though. Sjow did not make the cut actually, so cant really include him there in that sense.
Jinro was playing against July. And besides, DiMaga played SUPER well against July, but it wasn't really Dimaga playing well that one the game, it was July's poor army composition that lost him the game so to speak.
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On March 29 2011 22:10 Cranberries wrote:
Best 8 Koreans (IMO):
Nestea
MVP
MC
LosirA
MMA
July
San
Alicia
MVP
MC
LosirA
MMA
Alicia
TheSTC
Nestea
AND............Bomber
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Anyone know the final song that played during the photo shoot?
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On March 29 2011 22:09 Jotoco wrote:
Today would be the day I could say:
"Put your clothes back woman! I'm watching starcraft!"
damn right )))))))))), that sc2 was as good as it can be
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On March 29 2011 23:08 DoyenkO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote:On March 29 2011 22:45 HQuality wrote:On March 29 2011 22:42 exterminatus wrote:
Dimaga, White-Ra +1
Huk,Moonglade,Jinro -1 huk and moonglade have already -5 at least then :D :D funny that people continuing to put them inda their World Team. soooooo overhyped really Kas, GoOdy instead of this two would be a huge difference *not trollin, srsly Kas ok BUT GOODY??? He's not that good man... edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth huk and moonglade represent their regions so no goody or kas instead, what you sugest, europe vs korea?
No, but I do believe they should pick someone cause he's the best and not cause he's from a certain country that they don't want to exclude
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On March 29 2011 21:57 gottypro wrote:
I really felt they should've put up Dimaga vs July much earlier. His zvz is really, really good, his best MU, but there are better ways to snipe NesTea.
Especially since he didn't end up sniping Nestea anyway :p
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On March 29 2011 23:08 DoyenkO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote:On March 29 2011 22:45 HQuality wrote:On March 29 2011 22:42 exterminatus wrote:
Dimaga, White-Ra +1
Huk,Moonglade,Jinro -1 huk and moonglade have already -5 at least then :D :D funny that people continuing to put them inda their World Team. soooooo overhyped really Kas, GoOdy instead of this two would be a huge difference *not trollin, srsly Kas ok BUT GOODY??? He's not that good man... edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth huk and moonglade represent their regions so no goody or kas instead, what you sugest, europe vs korea?
makes sense considering Europeans are the only good foreigners 
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On March 29 2011 23:12 parazice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2011 22:10 Cranberries wrote:
Best 8 Koreans (IMO):
Nestea
MVP
MC
LosirA
MMA
July
San
Alicia MVP MC LosirA MMA Alicia TheSTC Nestea AND............Bomber
TheSTC?
when's the last time he did anything
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EPT
