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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
Anyone who has a clue about this game can tell that Mvp has one of if not the strongest mechanics/game sense in the sc2 scene. Being in code A means nothing. His raw skill puts him on the top of the pedestal regardless what code he's in. Macro wise I've rarely ever seen him go past 400-500 minerals/gas even in the late game. Micro wise his unit control is 2nd to none except maybe mkp. Game sense? This one is self explanatory if you've seen his games. | ||
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Ciel
Hungary289 Posts
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Cloud92684
United States236 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:50 spacebarbarian wrote: Whoa this is really interesting, the 3 of the 4 players that failed to get a single win on the all stars side have been playing in Korea full time (huk moonglade jinro). Do you think that the other foreigners were at an advantage because their play style was somewhat unknown to the Koreans ? It's quite possible the foreigner playstyle threw off the Korean players builds as they are more designed to do well against the Korean metagame. That said, best of one is a volatile format and even the best progamers loses probably 1 in 4 matches so I wouldn't count out Huk, Jinro, or Moonglade out just yet. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10304 Posts
 July pwning and Foreigners putting up a sick fight, love it | ||
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DoyenkO
Croatia13 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:37 anatem wrote: under these circumstances 1. we didn't really bring the best of the best (though that's a bit hard to do atm with the foreigners being so streaky lately) 2. we had 4 zergs, roffles 3. july got a 4-kill 4. tosis made some arguable decisions that cost the team hard we still almost got it ! and their champs played their best day2, so no excuses there baby what more could you have asked for. another great day for starcraft. it's amazing how such a criticized game (that i agree is quite inferior to its predecessor) can produce such amazing games -fuck that- amazing entertainment ! <3 the players, tl, starcraft, gom. fighting! 1. Maybe, but Sen and moonglade are definitly best two Asian players, and I think that no one can say any other Euro player is soo much better then Morrow, White-Ra or Dimiga and deserve the place in the team. American duo also. 2. Zergs being better part of the team, so...? | ||
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kaileah
171 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:54 andrewlt wrote: He's July, though. He's had the same style for years and people haven't figured it out yet. Or people have figured it out but still lose to it. july is what kobe bryant is for all star weekend. where as everyone else just doesn't care and just goes out to have fun, july seems to be that one guy who has the no nonsense attitude. koreans were going for carriers, motherships, and battlecruisers, and other fun strats while smiling and laughing on their benches, where as july played as if he were in the gsl finals or trying for a legit all-kill. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:53 rbx270j wrote: I wonder how many people will see this and not get it. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/UhNbB.jpg) in this pic he kinda reminds me schwarzenegger | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:43 HowardRoark wrote: Well, I doubt it ever will be a bonjwa in Sc2, since the lowered mechanical skills needed, many games will be decided by strategy, build orders and coin flip situations at top level. And, with Terran perhaps about to reach the mechanical skill cap in Sc2 soon at pro level (and Protoss already reached it), only Zerg will be able to continue develop, while in BW no one from Z, T and P have yet reached the mech. skill level as of yet (or did.Flash almost go there for a while?) If you assume mechanical skill is the one deciding factor when we are talking about the skill ceiling yes. My problem is the bolded part. You put it as if strategy is a limited factor, and then add buld order like it isn't a part of the strategy. Sure there are "build order losses" and if those are unavoidable then we can get your coin flip situations. But we aren't there yet (at least I'm not convinced) and strategy can theoretically have almost infinite high skill ceiling regardless of mechanics. Which we can see in all games played is far from perfect. You might very well be right that the game won't permit any player to become a bonjwa, but personally still think it's possible (assuming a few evident flaws of the game get patched) for players to rise above their piers by simply outsmarting them. | ||
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:34 Zorgaz wrote: Seriously 4 terrans in this. Not one of them won a single game. Why does the terrans seem to falter in all the major tourneys?! Just check latest IEM or GSL... The only place terrans seem to excel at is the top of the ladder xd. Steady up Terrans. Show them the Metal Fist! Sure i can enjoy ZvP, ZvZ and PvP, to some extent. But TvT is seriously the most entertaining mirror. And TvZ is my favorite matchup. MVP almost won. The game wasn't 100% his but he had such a hold on the map and everything teched, upgraded, so much production that no matter what Dimaga would have thrown at him he'd have just outproduced in marines/marauders. Dimaga lost it with the lack of spire tbh. But yeah, when you have to risk it all in a BO1 terran seems to be behind, and the other races are a lot more entertaining all-inning. | ||
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edwrodrig
Chile37 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:54 red4ce wrote: No MKP for sure. With larger maps and the new patch his signature style is officially outdated. In the current mappool and metagame he's definitely a step below the other elite terrans. I'd leave out Ryung also simply because he's relatively more untested in non TvT's compared to the other 2. Did you not see MMA vs MVP??? Watch it. These bigger maps promote heavy Bio Play becaseu of the mobility abuse. Yesterday i plaed a Ladder game on Tal and raped my opponent with Pure Medic Marine. Dropping all over the place sniping tanks mass Expanding. Tanks are 3 food and cover little in SC2 | ||
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Qaatar
1409 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:59 nihlon wrote: If you assume mechanical skill is the one deciding factor when we are talking about the skill ceiling yes. My problem is the bolded part. You put it as if strategy is a limited factor, and then add buld order like it isn't a part of the strategy. Sure there are "build order losses" and if those are unavoidable then we can get your coin flip situations. But we aren't there yet (at least I'm not convinced) and strategy can theoretically have almost infinite high skill ceiling regardless of mechanics. Which we can see in all games played is far from perfect. You might very well be right that the game won't permit any player to become a bonjwa, but personally still think it's possible (assuming a few evident flaws of the game get patched) for players to rise above their piers by simply outsmarting them. I agree to a certain extent. It also applies to BW - JD's mechanics are slightly superior in every way to Flash, but Flash has a superior strategic mind and better decision making which puts him over the top. It will take a while for SC2 to reach even close to that level, but it will be a different kind of plateau (lower, in my opinion). | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Why are people blaming this on the player selection or Artosis?? This was the best possible solution and they did good considering no one ever taught they were gonna win and still they were winning and lost 4 games to July incredible Z play. Artosis is not a coach, he did his best with these players and they did very good owning 2 GSL finalists and 3 GSL champions.. Everybody considers the GSL players to be gods but they aren't.. they lose to TT1, Dimaga, Sen, White-Ra just like anybody else. Btw Jinro and HuK got owned by July "arguably" the best performing Zerg nowadays so it's understandable! | ||
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najreteip
Belgium4158 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:45 HQuality wrote: huk and moonglade have already -5 at least then :D :D funny that people continuing to put them inda their World Team. soooooo overhyped really Kas, GoOdy instead of this two would be a huge difference *not trollin, srsly Kas ok BUT GOODY??? He's not that good man... edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth | ||
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StUfF
Australia1437 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:42 nihlon wrote: Yeah I agree we shouldn't blame artosis for this. I'm pretty sure they had a plan as a team. I agree pretty much with you other comments although I would have really liked to see Morrow against a terran. His ZvP often feels a bit desperate and his ZvZ is not really on par with the Korean Zergs. But considering how the race balanced was on the Korean team that might not have worked out. Neither of the two korean Terrans won any games! I think alot of effort went into sniping MC and MVP - Jinro was probably suppose to kill Nestea. They just took July too lightly and paid the price, everyone seems to underestimate his early/mid-game aggression and just don't play safe enough. Whitera vs July - Very close. Whitera managed the baneling bust extremely well but was still behind. His all-in was very indecisive and delayed and that cost him the game. Huk vs July - Early aggression denied Huk's expansion and then July just killed him with an insurmountable economic advantage. Also he skipped roach's entirely and made Huk's heavy sentry force not very useful. Timed attack before critical amount of colossus and before third base was up was up and running. Moonglade vs July - July took a big risk Hatch first on metal - not sure if close positions are disabled on GSL metal? Moonglade went pool - couldn't do any damage lings but just lost as July hit the timing with speed roachs as Moonglade was trying to catch up in economy. Build order win + positional win + mindgames (going economy after two very aggressive openings). | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
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ct2299
380 Posts
Secondly, I think the biggest thing we can take from this, is that Americans still suck at SC2! lol. But in reality, I don't really think the foreign team could have gotten much better, White-Ra, DiMaga, Sen, TT1 are all really really really good players. Jinro as well. HuK maybe not so much, and Morrow is one of the stronger foreigners already. Laugh all you want about Zerg being the weaker race, but it is the Zergs on BOTH teams that really kept the race close (Sen, DiMaga, July and NesTea to seal the deal) Finally, if you really want to debate that much, Anypro is hardly one of the top players either, neither is MKP. I'd easily choose (in a best of one series), SlayerS_MMA or ST_Bomber or SlayerS_Ryoung over those two. If you guys watched the team league I think you would agree as well. | ||
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HQuality
2682 Posts
On March 29 2011 23:03 najreteip wrote: Kas ok BUT GOODY??? He's not that good man... edit: How about Kas and sjow or sth ye sjow prob or socke or even nani dunno man, goody's micro is bad, but he is taking SOOOOO much tourneys for last 2 month ... | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On March 29 2011 23:05 HQuality wrote: ye sjow prob or socke or even nani dunno man, goody's micro is bad, but he is taking SOOOOO much tourneys for last 2 month ... players are starting to figure out his mech play so his mediocore mechanics will come out on top | ||
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Qaatar
1409 Posts
On March 29 2011 22:59 dakalro wrote: MVP almost won. The game wasn't 100% his but he had such a hold on the map and everything teched, upgraded, so much production that no matter what Dimaga would have thrown at him he'd have just outproduced in marines/marauders. Dimaga lost it with the lack of spire tbh. But yeah, when you have to risk it all in a BO1 terran seems to be behind, and the other races are a lot more entertaining all-inning. That game was so obviously played for show, it's ridiculous (or both of them are actually THAT clueless about unit counters). Ghosts would have won Mvp the game long before a spire could do it for Dimaga - and then, Dimaga with a terrible move to ultras without infestor support, and Mvp just dicking around with planetaries. Neither player played with anything close to maximum efficiency - but who cares? It was a showmatch to entertain, and holy shit, it certainly did. | ||
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