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On January 17 2011 09:52 ThaZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:31 kuroshiro wrote:
I think people who keep saying that these games are not entertaining aren't paying attention. srsly. Watch the freakin game instead of labelling '4-gate' and automatically deciding 'this game sucks'.
Just my opinion though. Obviously that's your own opinion. Some people don't find constant 4-gating entertaining. We can see thousands of 4 gating protoss games whenever we want, however we can't see high level macro "up to 6 bases action action" games. 4 gates make me yawn. And yes, I watched the game. That's the problem...
So? Write a letter to Blizzard then if you feel that strongly about the issue.
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On January 17 2011 09:52 ParasitJonte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:51 Random() wrote:
All of you whiners understand nothing about White-Ra. If you think that he should not have punished Morrow for being greedy with warpgate rushes, even if he had to do that 10 times in a row, you don't understand anything about competitive Starcraft either. Morrow wasn't being overly greedy... Protoss early attacks on those maps, those positions, are just too strong to make for a good game.
Having not even started to build the roach warren when whitera is building his pylon in front of morrows natural is over greedy or whatever you wanna call it.
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On January 17 2011 09:49 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:46 PlosionCornu wrote:
Did they remove ultras from the game? Seriously I cannot undestand this corruptor hydra roach ball of fire that everyone is lobbing at protoss armies of death.
I'm dead serious,please enlighten me.
with colossus/blink stalkers you can abuse cliff and micro against ultras as long as you want
It's not like broodlords fare that much better against blink stalkers,or roaches/hydras against force fields& colossi...
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On January 17 2011 09:45 TheCrow wrote:
There, he owned Morrow in a macrogame. Smart of him to go all out macro after having four gated all the previous games, Morrow seemed really nervous and planted tons of spines this game.
Good play from White-Ra. Though Morrow wasn't exactly nervous, he just planned to go mass muta, and you do need a ton of sunkens to act as a buffer against P counter attacks (while the mutas are away). The DTs were a great play which killed and ultimately delayed the 3rd of Morrow, you can bet he will be getting detectors in future games at his 3rd.
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Such a disappointing finals compared to the rest of the tournament.
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White-Ra showing adaptability and great decision making. Even when 4/5 gating he expanded and teched behind it when defended, and dealt lethal blows afterwards. All this QQ about Ra's 4-gating only expresses Morrow's inability to react accordingly. If you lose 3 games in a row to 4-gate pressure you're doing something wrong.
Afterwards, when morrow set a different type of game, White-Ra denied all harassment while at the same time applying a deathblow when killing that 3rd. He played great, and for those who doubt, he's more than capable of winning in macro games.
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The Beast from the East for sure, taking down both Homestory Cup and SCRI, White-Ra is on fire, and I love it.
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On January 17 2011 09:51 DarkRise wrote:
the problem morrow have is not having hive tech, he was in 4 base and max to top that off but no infestation pit
no ultras or even broodlords
Yeah that 2 base ultra sure is deadly.
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On January 17 2011 09:52 ParasitJonte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:51 Random() wrote:
All of you whiners understand nothing about White-Ra. If you think that he should not have punished Morrow for being greedy with warpgate rushes, even if he had to do that 10 times in a row, you don't understand anything about competitive Starcraft either. Morrow wasn't being overly greedy... Protoss early attacks on those maps, those positions, are just too strong to make for a good game.
Seriously, stop with the imba bullshit in tournament threads. Its so annoying and ruins the mood.
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On January 17 2011 09:56 TheCrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:52 ParasitJonte wrote:On January 17 2011 09:51 Random() wrote:
All of you whiners understand nothing about White-Ra. If you think that he should not have punished Morrow for being greedy with warpgate rushes, even if he had to do that 10 times in a row, you don't understand anything about competitive Starcraft either. Morrow wasn't being overly greedy... Protoss early attacks on those maps, those positions, are just too strong to make for a good game. Seriously, stop with the imba bullshit in tournament threads. Its so annoying and ruins the mood.
It's not "imba bullshit". You need to learn to read better. I play protoss I may add.
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On January 17 2011 09:52 ParasitJonte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:51 Random() wrote:
All of you whiners understand nothing about White-Ra. If you think that he should not have punished Morrow for being greedy with warpgate rushes, even if he had to do that 10 times in a row, you don't understand anything about competitive Starcraft either. Morrow wasn't being overly greedy... Protoss early attacks on those maps, those positions, are just too strong to make for a good game.
O.o
If having 10 lings and 1 spine when the attack comes is not greedy, than i ask you, what is?
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On January 17 2011 09:57 ParasitJonte wrote:
It's not "imba bullshit". You need to learn to read better. I play protoss I may add.
It's still complaining about imbalance and no one wants that. This isn't the place or time for it.
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On January 17 2011 09:56 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:51 DarkRise wrote:
the problem morrow have is not having hive tech, he was in 4 base and max to top that off but no infestation pit
no ultras or even broodlords
Yeah that 2 base ultra sure is deadly.
I think he was on about 4/5 at the time the attack came,and wasted a lot of time at 200/200...
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On January 17 2011 09:58 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:57 ParasitJonte wrote:
It's not "imba bullshit". You need to learn to read better. I play protoss I may add. It's still complaining about imbalance and no one wants that. This isn't the place or time for it.
No it's not. And that's an important distinction to make. A game can be perfectly balanced but so boring or weird or stupid that no one wants to play it. PvZ close positions on metalopolis is pretty close to that...
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On January 17 2011 09:58 Kuzmorgo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:52 ParasitJonte wrote:On January 17 2011 09:51 Random() wrote:
All of you whiners understand nothing about White-Ra. If you think that he should not have punished Morrow for being greedy with warpgate rushes, even if he had to do that 10 times in a row, you don't understand anything about competitive Starcraft either. Morrow wasn't being overly greedy... Protoss early attacks on those maps, those positions, are just too strong to make for a good game. O.o If having 10 lings and 1 spine when the attack comes is not greedy, than i ask you, what is?
no lings no spines and toss attacks after 30 minute mark. Then its ok for you to attack.
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On January 17 2011 09:48 TheCrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:46 FrostShadow wrote:
I used to like whitera, but watching him play today in homestory and this shows he really just does run of the mill cheesy shit.
4-5 gate or dt rush every game of both finals. wasted 2+ hours watching it today :/ , thats totally my mistake though. He doesnt exactly play run of the mill style in my opinion. WhiteRa chose DT's after he scouted the far away expo from MorroW. It was reaction play and the right decision to harass with since mutas were out.
That's it, White-Ra sometimes does strange micro mistakes, but his decision making is one of the best ever.
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On January 17 2011 09:59 PlosionCornu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:56 hifriend wrote:On January 17 2011 09:51 DarkRise wrote:
the problem morrow have is not having hive tech, he was in 4 base and max to top that off but no infestation pit
no ultras or even broodlords
Yeah that 2 base ultra sure is deadly. I think he was on about 4/5 at the time the attack came,and wasted a lot of time at 200/200...
Expansions take time to kick in. His mining had been interrupted and he had been set back for quite some time. At that point he needed to build units to fend off potential attacks. He needed to survive for 2-3 minutes more; then his economy would've kicked in for real. But Ra never gave him the chance.
You can't just say: "ah he had 3-4 bases, should be fine" without taking the entire game into consideration. All factors present.
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On January 17 2011 09:54 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:52 ThaZenith wrote:On January 17 2011 09:31 kuroshiro wrote:
I think people who keep saying that these games are not entertaining aren't paying attention. srsly. Watch the freakin game instead of labelling '4-gate' and automatically deciding 'this game sucks'.
Just my opinion though. Obviously that's your own opinion. Some people don't find constant 4-gating entertaining. We can see thousands of 4 gating protoss games whenever we want, however we can't see high level macro "up to 6 bases action action" games. 4 gates make me yawn. And yes, I watched the game. That's the problem... So? Write a letter to Blizzard then if you feel that strongly about the issue.
There's no issue.
Some people don't find 4 gates entertaining. Period.
Nobody cares if they're strong/weak, easy/hard, we find them boring. That's all we were saying. If you love watching protoss 4 gate every game, that's all fine. Good for you.
Don't know why you're defending the guy who basically said people have no right to find 4 gates boring...
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On January 17 2011 09:50 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 09:46 mcc wrote:On January 17 2011 09:40 Pandain wrote:On January 17 2011 09:36 n0ise wrote:On January 17 2011 09:31 Pandain wrote:On January 17 2011 09:26 n0ise wrote:On January 17 2011 09:25 Pandain wrote:On January 17 2011 09:23 .Theory wrote:
What's with the 4gate QQ? They're still great games. How are these great games? They're only great(somewhat, SOMEWHAT) because Morrow is such a beast at defense. And for people saying "Oh, he's playing to win", that doesn't mean people can't be dissapointed in him. White Ra is basically saying, by 5 gating 3 times in a row(after getting totally dominated in a macro game): "I can't win vs Morrow in a macro game." And that's what makes me, along with other people in this thread, dissapointed with White ra and his play this series. Cool logic. So the Zerg is free to overdrone, cos if the opponent does aggressive play, he's lame/etc/can't win in a macro game. Anyway. Songname? ^____^ Except White Ra all ined. I mean, even a 4 gate isn't all in(which is sort of sad, but whatever.) Even when he killed the hatch, he didn't expand. On metalopolis, he had such a lead, yet instead of expanding made a stargate. Like just very very late he did make a nexus, but just in how late it was shows it was an all in. If he didn't kill Morrow's expo, he would've lost. Plain and simple. Same thing as you saw in game 1, in which White ra did 5 gate, failed, and lost to Morrow in the late game. There's a difference between droning too hard and not being able to compete in a macro game. There's a HUGE differense skill wise. One is just a simple, easy mistake. The other is what defines Starcraft 2. You didn't seem to understand my point. As stated by everyone a billion times, Morrow loves his dronies and defending with the minimum amount of resources. You can a) Play at a disadvantage and wonder why you're kinda meh in a macro game (because, again, Morrow will invest a lot of his resources in early econ) or b) try to abuse on that. Also, you do this four games in a row, you make the Zergy more leary to overdrone, then you go for a standard macro game in game 5 on LT. Standard BO5 high-level play. There's so much depth to this game, it's a pity people just read it as "omg he's so bad my plat buddy can do this and beat morrow". I understand your point perfectly, I'm just stating why people are upset at Morrow. I understand its a tournament, and its very late for White Ra, I'm okay with him doing this. But I can still be dissapointed in the play itself of White Ra. For example, theres a difference between capitalizing on knowing Morrow loves to drone hard and going 5 gate every game, then not expanding even when you kill his expo and keep trying to kill him. There's a difference between being agressive and going all in. And just to clear things up, its not that 4 gate(and for the record White ra was going 5 gate) is all in, its not. It's that White Ra MADE it all in. But again, I 100% understand your view, I'm just helping say why I myself am dissapointed in his play. I hope for a better game 5 On January 17 2011 09:36 mcc wrote:On January 17 2011 09:25 Pandain wrote:On January 17 2011 09:23 .Theory wrote:
What's with the 4gate QQ? They're still great games. How are these great games? They're only great(somewhat, SOMEWHAT) because Morrow is such a beast at defense. And for people saying "Oh, he's playing to win", that doesn't mean people can't be dissapointed in him. White Ra is basically saying, by 5 gating 3 times in a row(after getting totally dominated in a macro game): "I can't win vs Morrow in a macro game." And that's what makes me, along with other people in this thread, dissapointed with White ra and his play this series. Your logic seems kind of faulty, he is not saying I cannot win macro, he is saying I will have lower chance and that is big difference. Sorry if I exaggerated somewhat. I do that when I'm getting somewhat passionate. My point is: White ra feels, or at least this is showing, that he can't compete in a macro game WELL with Morrow. Not that he can't at all. Last game seems to contradict you  I have full faith in White Ra's macro abilities, that is why I'm dissapointed in why he 5 gated 4/5 games.
Mind games and trying to be unpredictible and of course tailoring strategy according to map and opponent.
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Very well played by White Ra, I only saw the last 3 games, but he made several extremely good tactical decisions against marrow. The switch to voids in game 3 was well timed. The switch over to the natural at the last second of breaking the rocks was a decisive move on game 4. And The last game was an artful macro game from White Ra where he responded beautifully to what Marrow was doing.
Marrow's play was fantastic as well, but White Ra was on fire.
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EPT
