• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:03
CET 09:03
KST 17:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners5Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!25$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)
Tourneys
Is Filagra Double 200mg Safe For Everyone? Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1726 users

[GSL] Open S1 - Ro32 Day 1 - Page 94

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 92 93 94 95 96 99 Next
TheeIncubus
Profile Joined July 2010
United States17 Posts
September 15 2010 16:52 GMT
#1861
The Idra set was such good matches. It all came down to scouting for Idra however. Those were some of the most intense matches I have seen come outta Starcraft 2 thus far.
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
September 15 2010 16:56 GMT
#1862
On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/


Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too.

Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that.




Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees


Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it?

If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2.

This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
Dionyseus
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States2068 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 17:03:54
September 15 2010 17:03 GMT
#1863
On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:
On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/


Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too.

Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that.




Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees


Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it?

If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2.

This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.


And I think banshees are like tier 3.5 right? You gotta make rax and factory first, and then get a tech lab on the starport.
9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
September 15 2010 17:04 GMT
#1864
On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:
This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.


when it comes down to void rays, I agree - against terran they can be implemented in a "standard" play, kinda to overcome the midgame and transition into the lategame

but against zerg void rays are really all-in if you get them in early midgame; if the opponent scouted it or smelled it and got a decent amount of queens, transfusion just owns you; maybe you get one queen, but at what cost! afterwards you are basicly dead - you got no useful tech, the zerg can outmacro and roflpwn you with a sheer mass of whatever
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
DamnCats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1472 Posts
September 15 2010 17:04 GMT
#1865
Well those better results remain to be seen, I think.

Also I find it hilarious that people want this to be a balance free thread when people can't even talk about things like the NBA finals between the celtics and the lakers without complaining about the referees "balance" issues. Although as a zerg I will say I do not think balance had much to do with why idra lost, I think it had a great deal to do with why the second zerg did.
Disciples of a god, that neither lives nor breathes.
Garaman
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States556 Posts
September 15 2010 17:07 GMT
#1866
now i just need TLO to get knocked out =)
i hope a zerg does it though.
revenge for zergs on all terrans!
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 15 2010 17:27 GMT
#1867
If the rest of the 4 zergs get knocked out, as well as TLO... /wrist
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
September 15 2010 17:28 GMT
#1868
On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:
This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.


Cool whines more than Dimaga, you fool.
Devolved
Profile Joined April 2008
United States2753 Posts
September 15 2010 17:30 GMT
#1869
Uhg. Why does Idra not use his ovies to spread creep at expos, much less simply use the ovies to scout the expos or patrol between them? For such a good player it seems like this would be second nature. I'm not a zerg player or even good at SC2 for that matter, but even I know the usefulness of overlord scouting.
$♥$
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 15 2010 17:35 GMT
#1870
On September 16 2010 02:30 Devolved wrote:
Uhg. Why does Idra not use his ovies to spread creep at expos, much less simply use the ovies to scout the expos or patrol between them? For such a good player it seems like this would be second nature. I'm not a zerg player or even good at SC2 for that matter, but even I know the usefulness of overlord scouting.

He did, for most of the expos. He had overlords at almost all of them, but stalkers were running all over the place. Overlord deaths are not cheap. It's like losing 125 minerals.
Dookie1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States70 Posts
September 15 2010 17:38 GMT
#1871
On September 16 2010 02:35 Fa1nT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 02:30 Devolved wrote:
Uhg. Why does Idra not use his ovies to spread creep at expos, much less simply use the ovies to scout the expos or patrol between them? For such a good player it seems like this would be second nature. I'm not a zerg player or even good at SC2 for that matter, but even I know the usefulness of overlord scouting.

He did, for most of the expos. He had overlords at almost all of them, but stalkers were running all over the place. Overlord deaths are not cheap. It's like losing 125 minerals.

losing games is not cheap either especially when the final prize is 85 grand

just sloppy play by idra, i hope cool can represent zerg well in the rest of this tourney and make it far
im the best
dekuschrub
Profile Joined May 2008
United States2069 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 17:51:43
September 15 2010 17:51 GMT
#1872
dang im so sad that idra lost

lesson learned

dont go by bnet build orders!!!

(and scout )
Dionyseus
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States2068 Posts
September 15 2010 17:51 GMT
#1873
On September 16 2010 02:35 Fa1nT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 02:30 Devolved wrote:
Uhg. Why does Idra not use his ovies to spread creep at expos, much less simply use the ovies to scout the expos or patrol between them? For such a good player it seems like this would be second nature. I'm not a zerg player or even good at SC2 for that matter, but even I know the usefulness of overlord scouting.

He did, for most of the expos. He had overlords at almost all of them, but stalkers were running all over the place. Overlord deaths are not cheap. It's like losing 125 minerals.


Nah overlords are pretty cheap in the midgame and especially lategame, and he had speed overlords which don't die easy.
9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius
fantomex
Profile Joined June 2009
United States313 Posts
September 15 2010 17:56 GMT
#1874
Unbelievable. Idra put everything into this. Skipped IEM so he could focus on GSL. And gets knocked out in the second round.

No conclusions can be drawn from this match regarding East vs West because the play was so poor. It was entertaining though. Lotze seemed to use the timidness that cost him the first match as a ploy in the third match.

At the time I thought he made a huge mistake by not immediately falling back when he saw Brood Lords, but he may have been stalling for time to get Void Rays out. Hard to tell from VOD and GSL doesn't release replays (which is really terrible for the competitive scene).
Replay or GTFO
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 17:59:34
September 15 2010 17:57 GMT
#1875
I can't believe Idra lost game 3.... It looked like he got complacent and thought he was far ahead throughout the entire game. Cause come on....There are no hidden expansions on metal. That is such a devastating way to lose and he'll be losing a lot of sleep over it.

I'm looking forward to Cool taking this tournament.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 18:03:54
September 15 2010 18:02 GMT
#1876
Cool, Zenio and Check will avenge the swarm! =(!!! (I hope)
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 18:20:35
September 15 2010 18:17 GMT
#1877
On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:
On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/


Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too.

Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that.




Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees


Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it?

If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2.

This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.

Zerg tiers are much more difficult to advance in, that's why Zerg tier 3 should be the most powerful of them all.

The current gameplay would be kind of all right if Zerg got a huge advantage after fighting off an early T or P shaenigan, but currently Zerg is just fighting to be even. It's like 2 people gunfighting where the other person has no bullets and has to dodge each of the opponent's bullets until they can start evenly whacking each other with the guns

It would be much more even if Zerg had a bazooka that he just needed to load while dodging the bullets, but after Z is done with that they could blow the T's or P's brains off.

On September 16 2010 02:03 Dionyseus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:
On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:
On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/


Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too.

Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that.




Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees


Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it?

If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2.

This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.


And I think banshees are like tier 3.5 right? You gotta make rax and factory first, and then get a tech lab on the starport.

It sure would be nice if Zerg could get their Ultralisks out at 6 minutes. As said, Z tier 3 isn't the same as T or P tier 3.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
September 15 2010 18:20 GMT
#1878
On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:
On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/


Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too.

Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that.




Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees


Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it?

If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2.

This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.


I just love when people throw out this kind of shit. You know you don't have an early anti-air unit? Well just build a lot of queens. I mean, obviously hurting your army blindly just on the off chance they go air is a great way to play the game. Just assume what build they're going to do beforehand, then execute with no scouting. That way you can even save a drone!

Not sure of their actions? Try sacrificing a couple of overlords, make a couple of extra queens, and get an overseer just in case. What's that? They're doing any sort of early aggression? lol, ok, gg

I would also say you argument on Cool or Check complaining is a lack of anecdotal evidence on your or our part. I don't see either of them posting on these forums or making videos with Artosis all of the time. Simply saying you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The absence of proof is not proof of absence.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
iSiN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1075 Posts
September 15 2010 18:22 GMT
#1879

The current gameplay would be kind of all right if Zerg got a huge advantage after fighting off an early T or P shaenigan, but currently Zerg is just fighting to be even. It's like 2 people gunfighting where the other person has no bullets and has to dodge each of the opponent's bullets until they can start evenly whacking each other with the guns

I love this quote it's almost exactly how I feel
Grouty @HoN/PCKJ <--<333 || Jaedong Fan Cafe GFX
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
September 15 2010 18:56 GMT
#1880
On September 16 2010 03:02 KissBlade wrote:
Cool, Zenio and Check will avenge the swarm! =(!!! (I hope)

That's for sure (imo). Cool, check (and tester) are SO MUCH above everyone else atm I can't see them lose to anyone but each other.
Prev 1 92 93 94 95 96 99 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 187
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8935
TY 727
Zeus 489
PianO 384
Tasteless 231
EffOrt 200
Soma 194
Leta 113
Sacsri 29
soO 27
[ Show more ]
yabsab 16
Bale 10
Dota 2
Gorgc3350
KheZu51
League of Legends
JimRising 583
Reynor31
Counter-Strike
fl0m1595
taco 61
Other Games
summit1g12185
WinterStarcraft447
NeuroSwarm62
ceh917
NotJumperer5
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick662
Counter-Strike
PGL154
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2445
• Scarra1615
• Stunt715
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 57m
LAN Event
6h 57m
Lambo vs Harstem
FuturE vs Maplez
Scarlett vs FoxeR
Gerald vs Mixu
Zoun vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TriGGeR vs TBD
Korean StarCraft League
18h 57m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 1h
LAN Event
1d 6h
IPSL
1d 9h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 11h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.