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On September 16 2010 02:56 fantomex wrote:
At the time I thought he made a huge mistake by not immediately falling back when he saw Brood Lords, but he may have been stalling for time to get Void Rays out. Hard to tell from VOD and GSL doesn't release replays (which is really terrible for the competitive scene).
Are you serious? Its actually better that they are not giving away the BO, that are sometimes hard to produce to just anyone. Its pretty bad that you as a player come up with a nice BO, and have it stealed it just few hours ago. It just gonna make cool strategies less apealing due to the fact that spending so much time into making them, just for them to be a 1 trick pony...
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On September 16 2010 03:56 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 03:02 KissBlade wrote:
Cool, Zenio and Check will avenge the swarm! =(!!! (I hope) That's for sure (imo). Cool, check (and tester) are SO MUCH above everyone else atm I can't see them lose to anyone but each other.
true - though tester has to play a PvP and in the protoss-mirror strange stuff can always happen
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Hindsight is 20/20. I like how everyone in here is saying "as long as IdrA scouted the 6 he would have won" or something along those lines.
How about we take a look at it from Lotze's perspective. If he wasn't so hesitant during his first initial attack in game 3 he might have outright won the game or taken out IdrA's expansion at the least.
You guys are worse than MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL fans.
Both guys played really well, Lotze just outplayed and outsmarted IdrA today.
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On September 16 2010 04:01 gozima wrote:
Hindsight is 20/20. I like how everyone in here is saying "as long as IdrA scouted the 6 he would have won" or something along those lines.
How about we take a look at it from Lotze's perspective. If he wasn't so hesitant during his first initial attack in game 3 he might have outright won the game or taken out IdrA's expansion at the least.
You guys are worse than MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL fans.
Both guys played really well, Lotze just outplayed and outsmarted IdrA today.
Well, without the 6 idra would have won yes, no ?
Yes, JPJ could have killed him or his expansion on his first push. But he didn't. Like idra could have scouted 6, but he didn't.
Yes, Lotze just outplayed and outsmarted IdrA today.
(I don't think anyone said anything else ? Well except 2 or 3 "everything is imba" hardcore people)
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Just watched the games, god IdrA <<
TLO better win now
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On September 16 2010 03:20 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/ Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too. Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that. Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it? If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2. This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too. I just love when people throw out this kind of shit. You know you don't have an early anti-air unit? Well just build a lot of queens. I mean, obviously hurting your army blindly just on the off chance they go air is a great way to play the game. Just assume what build they're going to do beforehand, then execute with no scouting. That way you can even save a drone! Queens are actually pretty good against any P composition, as long as you are defending, which you will be for the most part. They're fantastic tanks and AA.
P has really no answer to mass queens other than taking the whole map.
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On September 16 2010 04:34 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 03:20 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/ Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too. Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that. Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it? If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2. This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too. I just love when people throw out this kind of shit. You know you don't have an early anti-air unit? Well just build a lot of queens. I mean, obviously hurting your army blindly just on the off chance they go air is a great way to play the game. Just assume what build they're going to do beforehand, then execute with no scouting. That way you can even save a drone! Queens are actually pretty good against any P composition, as long as you are defending, which you will be for the most part. They're fantastic tanks and AA. P has really no answer to mass queens other than taking the whole map.
Queens are so good vs mass Colossus/Stalker
Actually I'm not sure if you're being serious or not <_<
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On September 16 2010 04:34 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 03:20 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/ Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too. Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that. Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it? If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2. This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too. I just love when people throw out this kind of shit. You know you don't have an early anti-air unit? Well just build a lot of queens. I mean, obviously hurting your army blindly just on the off chance they go air is a great way to play the game. Just assume what build they're going to do beforehand, then execute with no scouting. That way you can even save a drone! Queens are actually pretty good against any P composition, as long as you are defending, which you will be for the most part. They're fantastic tanks and AA. P has really no answer to mass queens other than taking the whole map.
The point being, you just described what the toss can do. Yes, you can get multiple queens and maybe throw up some spine crawlers too and rely on those for defense w/ transfuse... but in doing so you've committed so much to defense you are in no way capable of putting together an attack, thus allowing the protoss to tech and expand freely while also containing you.
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just watched the Idra/lotze series. AMAZING games to say the least, game 3 was just ridiculously fun to watch. I was really pulling for Idra in this one  . Sucks to see all the foreigners being cycled out.
Idra plays it safe too often, i'd like to see him take more risks. Lotze won because of the "risky" transitions he was willing to make in the game, and taking advantage of what he knew idra was prepared for.
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Norway275 Posts
On September 16 2010 05:04 SpooN) wrote:just watched the Idra/lotze series. AMAZING games to say the least, game 3 was just ridiculously fun to watch. I was really pulling for Idra in this one . Sucks to see all the foreigners being cycled out. Idra plays it safe too often, i'd like to see him take more risks. Lotze won because of the "risky" transitions he was willing to make in the game, and taking advantage of what he knew idra was prepared for.
IdrA getting critcism for playing it safe and Dimaga getting criticism for playing too risky. Seems neither safe nor risky is the way to go with zerg :p
I actually think IdrA played too risky vs Lotze. He should have pulled back and not gone for the kill.
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On September 16 2010 02:07 Garaman wrote:
now i just need TLO to get knocked out =)
i hope a zerg does it though.
revenge for zergs on all terrans!
this is a teamliquid forum and he is a team member
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i just prefer experimental play in general. I can only imagine how you feel when the pressure is on in a tournament in general, the last thing i would want to do is deviate from what feels right in any case. I just mean that idrA should start playing around with new things that we haven't really seen him do-IE nydus worm use.
sometimes even the best players forget little things.
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On September 15 2010 23:38 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 21:19 diehilde wrote:
with Z its like being in a boxmatch and having ur arms cut off, ur only chance of winning is dodging every move he has until he finally falls over from exhaustion. this is the PERFECT definition of what its like to play zerg LOL
lol this describes Z perfectly
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On September 16 2010 05:04 SpooN) wrote:just watched the Idra/lotze series. AMAZING games to say the least, game 3 was just ridiculously fun to watch. I was really pulling for Idra in this one . Sucks to see all the foreigners being cycled out. Idra plays it safe too often, i'd like to see him take more risks. Lotze won because of the "risky" transitions he was willing to make in the game, and taking advantage of what he knew idra was prepared for.
If this were BW and foreign tournaments I'd agree with you... as it stands now, risky (and good) builds don't really exist for zergs in sc2. It's either relatively standard play.... or a baneling bust. There's not a lot of inventive or interesting strategies we've seen with any sort of success from zergs because of the simplicity of defense by terran and protoss if they scout anything funky from their opponent.
Terrans get a wall and bunkers/turrets and toss get a strong force and Sentries to throw up FF's on their ramp. I suppose there is the v protoss 6 pool on certain maps if the protoss puts up forward gates or a later gate in general, but even that can simply be denied by starting an earlier gate and making sure to chrono out the first zealot.
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On September 15 2010 22:55 piegasm wrote:Show nested quote +I really think IdrA needs to adapt his playstyle a little to be a bit more aggressive. Nibble at the enemy here and there to try and whittle his army down whenever possible. This is of course easier said than done, Zerg don't have any decent "harrass and retreat" units other than the Mutas which are pretty fragile for 100/100 cost. I feel like IdrA plays not to lose instead of going for wins. There was one match in the IEM Cologne where he went surprisingly agressive against Tarson and totally roflstomped him. He needs to do more of that. It wouldn't need to be every game but doing it here and there would force opponents to consider the possibility. The thing that made Michael Jordan so dangerous was that he could drive the ball OR shoot from range AND had a great fade away. No matter how you defended him, he could still beat you. IdrA has the reputation of being a one trick pony.
Dude every Zerg plays not to lose... have you ever even tried to be aggressive versus Terran as Z? lol is doesn't work out too well as Z no matter how you try it.
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I'm worried about the foreigner pro scene audience if koreans keep knocking out these players. i know a lot of people who have basically lost interest in the gsl and are not watching anymore because all the foreigners have been knocked out. (tlo hasn't but recovering from a fairly serious illness doesn't help his chances). i mean, as a foreigner you would like to root for the underdog in what seems to be a korean controlled pro scene, and this was the supposed opportunity to show that foreigners can be evenly matched to the best korean pros.
i don't know, i'm not totally like that but i understand the mindset. i feel that if tlo does in fact drop his match, i'll basically lose a lot of interest until the finals. after all, to most of us here, aren't foreigners the main draw for this tournament? The tourney threads for days with foreigners reach ~100 pages, whereas most "normal" days reach the 40-70 page range.
/rant
sorry had to get that off my chest.
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On September 16 2010 01:56 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 01:50 st3roids wrote:On September 16 2010 01:44 awesomoecalypse wrote:Zerg has to scout early and counter everything. Protoss and terran just have to decide what build they want to use before the match? =/ Sure, Zerg is more reactive, thats not the same as imbalance. Had Idra scouted that hidden base in time, I definitely think he could have won. And he won the first game, too. Mechanics are not all there is to skill. IdrA made some pretty big mistakes in his last 2 matches, and paid for it, as he should have. Simple as that. Since its so well design and reactive pls tell us what are the t1 units , zerg has to counter vrays and banshees Why should zerg have a t1 unit to counter a TIER 2 toss/terran unit?? If Toss has to spent 1000 minerals to get a good unit(with tech and all), why should zerg only have to spend 300 to counter it? If you say "well terran has marines which counter them in tier 1".. zerg has queens. Make 2 queens, problem solved until you get tier 2. This zerg imbalance talk is retarded lately. The only thing they have a right to complain about is reapers, everything else is at fault of the zergs. You dont see Cool or Check complaining as much as Idra or Dimaga, with putting up better results too.
Why should a Terran Tier 1 unit counter a Zerg tier 3 unit.... Infact why do all Terran Tier 1 counter tier 3. Poor Ultras Tier 3 and still can't win against Tier 1/2
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On September 16 2010 05:15 Miller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 23:38 TheAntZ wrote:On September 15 2010 21:19 diehilde wrote:
with Z its like being in a boxmatch and having ur arms cut off, ur only chance of winning is dodging every move he has until he finally falls over from exhaustion. this is the PERFECT definition of what its like to play zerg LOL lol this describes Z perfectly
This is definitely more like how lotz played against idra than vice versa. He constantly dodged around sniping a few of idra's forces at a time with ff until idra (in exhaustion) finally abandoned the gold and the match spiraled downwards from there.
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Idra seems to choke when the stakes get really high. I think there is just too much pressure put on him (both by Artosis and the tl.net community) for him to perform. Too much pressure = no good in tournies.
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these games were magnitudes better than the RO64 games, I am officially convinced that SC2 will be great
cannot fucking wait to watch more GSL
and who else thinks it would be funny as hell if Blizzard patched 1.1 tonight, so it's up for the rest of the RO32 games hahaha
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EPT
