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On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point.
no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play?
hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ?
its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either.
but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester.
if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games.
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Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.
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On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.
as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.
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On August 20 2010 03:23 nam nam wrote:
I wouldn't care considering his poor English. I just find it weird that people get hung up on that quote as I find it one of the more harmless of his. He didn't mean loser in a derogatory way.
Yeah I don't think it was intended to sound as bad as it did. I'm generally cringing at the presentation though. In a lot of the post-match interviews he's trying to bait the players into whining about the game instead of talking about the match itself.
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On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.
You cant say PvZ favors zerg just because of a very few matches in one single tournament.... each day more then 1.000 high lvl games are played arround the world, only by looking at those results over time can you get an idea how that matchup is.
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On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.
I don't think you can conclude anything with those games.
That's sad there are no protoss. I'd say the same if there was no terran or no zerg. 
But let's face it: Naniwa and Hasuobs were not near the same level as the other guys. White-ra, well... can't decide if it was a bad day or he is slipping away from the game. Huk was the best P player over there and got nervous. He didn't play bad but well.. that wasn't enough.
What really makes me a very sad panda is that there are actually far less protoss heroes compared to other races. It's not because of balance issues but I don't understand why. Maybe because of the BW past ?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.
Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.
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On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.
anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.
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On August 20 2010 03:42 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. You cant say PvZ favors zerg just because of a very few matches in one single tournament.... each day more then 1.000 high lvl games are played arround the world, only by looking at those results over time can you get an idea how that matchup is.
Favoring does not imply imba. It just means that in future match-ups I might favor Zergs in top PvZs. It has to do with all sorts of things like preparation, meta-game, etc.
For example, the fatalistic attitude adopted by many Zergs due to the ZvT match-up might have affected their presence on ladder, leading to Protoss players not getting enough practice against diverse Zerg styles.
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On August 20 2010 03:24 PredY wrote:
so what system did they use to determine the brackets? because Idra (D1) plays vs sarens (C1) and demuslim (D2) vs dimaga (C2) which seems weird to me
It does seem strange. As far as I know, Sarens won the group, which all tables I've seen seems to support, but judging frow the playoff tree Dimaga won it. I have no idea how they did it otherwise.
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On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.
thx for the input but...
thats about as useful as saying "watch bisu reps" to a guy struggling with his pvz in bw. one player cant reverse metagame trends, no matter how good and successful he is, unless others can copy his style well enough. its just my impression of the last few weeks that tosses are struggling more and more to fight aggressive bio balls.
plz also note that i didnt say "imba", i just said "concerned". 
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On August 20 2010 03:02 DrainX wrote:Zergs were just as cheesy back in the beta before terrans figured out how to beat baneling busts.
That took all of 1 week. =p
On August 20 2010 03:46 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:42 TaKemE wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. You cant say PvZ favors zerg just because of a very few matches in one single tournament.... each day more then 1.000 high lvl games are played arround the world, only by looking at those results over time can you get an idea how that matchup is. Favoring does not imply imba. It just means that in future match-ups I might favor Zergs in top PvZs. It has to do with all sorts of things like preparation, meta-game, etc. For example, the fatalistic attitude adopted by many Zergs due to the ZvT match-up might have affected their presence on ladder, leading to Protoss players not getting enough practice against diverse Zerg styles.
The Protoss players played bad in this tourney, simple as that. Do you think HuK would lose to Artosis on ladder?
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On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.
he also has to use like every freaking unit and do constant harrassment and awesome macro at the same time lol
meanwhile the T just makes standard T shit and A moves or maybe drops some medivacs here and there
seriously that's like every socke replay ive watched. socke uses literally every single unit and T just makes marauder/marne/tank/medivac until they have to make vikings and then they add in vikings and they a move around the map
so basically yes, socke is awesome
but it doesn't mean it's not hard as hell to do what he does LOL
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On August 20 2010 03:46 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:24 PredY wrote:
so what system did they use to determine the brackets? because Idra (D1) plays vs sarens (C1) and demuslim (D2) vs dimaga (C2) which seems weird to me It does seem strange. As far as I know, Sarens won the group, which all tables I've seen seems to support, but judging frow the playoff tree Dimaga won it. I have no idea how they did it otherwise.
yes, it would be nice if someone actually could tell "them" to check their grid, it would be a disaster if they had it wrong..
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Making just MMM does not necessarily imply that the match-up is easy for the Terran. MMM requires quite a bit of micro, after all, especially if you're trying to do effectiev drops.
Have you considered the idea that Terrans don't generally build other units because other units are not effective against Protoss? I mean, Thors get countered pretty damn hard by Immortals, Void Rays, and even HTs. BCs are hard to transition into. Etc.
And lately many Terrans have been adding Ravens and Banshees to their line-up, and going lighter on Marauders.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.
For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard?
I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...
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On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...
Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player?
It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did!
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On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player? It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did!
Doesn't it seem a bit silly though? Until the Protoss has two different T3 techs, T2 and T3 upgrades and better macro (which is actually hard to pull off against T) he's always behind no matter what, and engaging in any fight would almost certainly result in a loss.
Call me naive, but if this is how protoss is "supposed" to beat Terran ... What stops the Terran ending the game before the T3 techs start rolling out? Have you counted, in game time, how long it takes to effectively macro up to Templar Archives with Storm/Amulet or Colossi with Thermal Lances and then considered what it takes for both these techs to be rendered powerless?
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On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...
this is true, and i appreciate the answer u gave me in the first place, but still... as i said, this is like teling ppl to copy bisus pvz style in bw. to put it clearly: i and probably most other players out there by far dont have the apm and multitask to pull off what socke does. we cant copy his brilliant pvt style because we are lacking the skill to do so. and without this mechanical skill, his style cant be copied with success. its basically the same like why d- tosses cant pull off an effective sair/reaver.
the frustrating thing about pvt is that there seems to be absolutely no effective strategy for the lowish average gamer. if the terran knows what he´s doing and has somewhat ok macro and micro with his bio ball, u as the protoss need more than somewhat ok macro and mirco to beat it. u need to have better micro and macro than him to beat him. this is what is frustrating about it for us average gamers. and most pros seem to be fighting the exact same fight aswell. socke proves that its possible to beat it on equal mechanical grounding, but not before the mechanics are on a really really high lvl.
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EPT
