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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 04:09 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player? It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did! Doesn't it seem a bit silly though? Until the Protoss has two different T3 techs, T2 and T3 upgrades and better macro (which is actually hard to pull off against T) he's always behind no matter what, and engaging in any fight would almost certainly result in a loss.
What is this "2 different T3 techs" - high templars and what? Carriers? It seems about as silly as the fact that P can spam 75 mana HTs at will....
I don't even play bio TvP anyway, I'm just incredibly sick of everyone complaining about Terrans - every other game on the ladder begins with "lol terran".
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On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games.
doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good
TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative
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On August 20 2010 04:11 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:09 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player? It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did! Doesn't it seem a bit silly though? Until the Protoss has two different T3 techs, T2 and T3 upgrades and better macro (which is actually hard to pull off against T) he's always behind no matter what, and engaging in any fight would almost certainly result in a loss. What is this "2 different T3 techs" - high templars and what? Carriers? It seems about as silly as the fact that P can spam 75 mana HTs at will....
Templar Archives, Psi-Storm, Amulet
Colossi, Thermal Lances
You'd be surprised that you actually need both sometimes. It's not exactly fun to have "warp in Storms" when the Terran can, y'know, move out of it or just shut you down by other methods. Honestly I think PvT is "okay" - Protoss, smartly, can end the game in <8 minutes but if Protoss has to be a macro game against T it becomes increasingly difficult as the game progresses. Three OCs, I'd argue, out macro 4 Nexus (with 1 on gold).
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On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative
Just lol at this troll post.
User was warned for this post
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If you're a low-mid skilled player, just proxy void rays...
Just kidding. But not really.
Seriously, there are plenty of ways for Protoss to win against Terran in lower skilled matches. Most lower skilled Terrans do not know how to dodge storms, for example. And they don't know how to defend against very early stalker pressure. Not to mention DTs, Void Rays, and Chargelots.
Watch Trump's stream for how he loses to Protoss in the upper Diamond skill ranges.
It's really not impossible at all.
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It does seem strange that Idra is playing Sarens and Demuslim is playing Dimaga - since the other 2 matches are 1st vs 2nd. I'm not complaining though - Idra vs Dimaga in the quarters isn't something I want.
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On August 20 2010 04:14 Loooui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative Just lol at this troll post.
Woot a quality post right here thank you for contributing. But what contributions has TLOs 'revolutionary' style for zerg brought?
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On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative
Guessing you have a lot of experience at higher levels of play to support your statements? Especially considering that you're bashing TLO.
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Supposedly the +1 attack zergling build that Dimaga used to dominate the early stages of Beta against Protoss was invented by TLO. But it's not really used these days.
I think he was also one of the first foreigners, at least, to use burrowed Infestors to harass SCV lines.
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Btw a question:
Blizzard or someone announced that this tournament will determine how balanced the game is? I mean after every single match everybody is trying to make an argument about how horribly imbalanced or how absolutely fair and nice the game is. I know ppl tend to do this, but seriously, it's just overwhelming here. A cup with 8 terrans in top 8 didndt start half as many balance rage then any of this qualifire groups. it's beasicly a Europe tournament with some americans thrown in it, with pre-determined map pool, which is an awful idea btw. abour 2/3s of the game were mostly influenced by the maps or just one player's fear of his opponent.
There were hardly any games which seemed really problematic overall, it was either superior player pwning inferior player, one player trying to allin hardcore and either failing himself or the opponent fails to react properly, or one player abusing the map's features like crazy.
The one which i kinda understood was the Hasu vs Demuslim as the good old marauder TvP prevailed even from disadvantage, and day9+apolo kinda hyped it how pure marauders raped the unit combo which was suppoused to counter it.
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On August 20 2010 04:19 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:14 Loooui wrote:On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative Just lol at this troll post. Woot a quality post right here thank you for contributing. But what contributions has TLOs 'revolutionary' style for zerg brought?
There is a major difference between playing creative and revolutionary.
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On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative
He was the first one to use ultras vs mech.....way before they where buffed even. As well as how to use infesters to harass.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative
- Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general)
- One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important)
- Relentless infestor play vs bio
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I disagree Nihlon. TLO is doing things that aren't just creative, but never done before. Zerg seems like a rather bland right now; nobody is taking half of the upgrades, using infestor's infested terran / NP / fungal growth well, nor going for non baneling openings. People are learning from TLO's zerg whenever he plays.
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You need to understand - I wasn't bashing TLO, I think he's a great player. I just dislike this idea about him being some creativity God. Sure, he may be creative, but he sure as Hell wouldn't be "creative" if he played Protoss or Zerg nearly as much as he plays Terran. In reality, Terran are just that much more refined than the other two races: the fact any mix of units works relatively well, as long as it has common sense, for Terran makes them very hard to deal with - moreso than Protoss/Zerg.
You can predict a Protoss move if you see 1 tech building, if you see a Factory against Terran you can't really make any "sound" judgement.
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soo.. it is confirmed, TLO is going to ZvT against MarroW?
or is that just a rumor?
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Is there a place that has replays up already or can i expect them to be posted on the ESL site?
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On August 20 2010 04:29 Kraz.Del wrote:
I disagree Nihlon. TLO is doing things that aren't just creative, but never done before. Zerg seems like a rather bland right now; nobody is taking half of the upgrades, using infestor's infested terran / NP / fungal growth well, nor going for non baneling openings. People are learning from TLO's zerg whenever he plays.
I didn't say whether or not I believe he is revolutionary, I only pointed out that there is a major difference with being creative and revolutionary. If people are arguing different things it makes the discussion quite confusing.
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On August 20 2010 04:31 PulseSUI wrote:
soo.. it is confirmed, TLO is going to ZvT against MarroW?
or is that just a rumor?
I think it's just speculation at this point.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 04:31 rbkl wrote:
Is there a place that has replays up already or can i expect them to be posted on the ESL site?
http://www.sc2rep.com/
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EPT
