• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:20
CEST 15:20
KST 22:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202526RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me)
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Corsair Pursuit Micro? Pro gamer house photos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 891 users

[IEM] Gamescom Day 2 - Page 110

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 113 Next
illumination
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)248 Posts
August 19 2010 19:38 GMT
#2181
On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:
On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity".


Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not?


That's pretty much the point.


no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play?
hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ?

its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either.

but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester.

if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games.

doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good

TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative

- Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general)
- One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important)
- Relentless infestor play vs bio

How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.
Welcome to TL - Where Terran have been teaching the Zerg / Toss pros how to play since Patch 11
Typhon
Profile Joined July 2009
United States387 Posts
August 19 2010 19:41 GMT
#2182
On August 20 2010 04:30 Cranberries wrote:
Sure, he may be creative, but he sure as Hell wouldn't be "creative" if he played Protoss or Zerg nearly as much as he plays Terran.


The argument is all relative to the race though. TLO has used a wider variety of T builds than most other Terran players. TLO has also used a wider variety of Z builds than most other Zerg players. P composition is pretty bland, and maybe that's why TLO sucks with Protoss... who knows?
deo.deo
Profile Joined April 2010
135 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 19:51:23
August 19 2010 19:50 GMT
#2183
On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.

Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.

Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.



as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.

Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.


anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.

For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard?

I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...


well first of all it seems like the phrase "stop complaining" isnt very well liked on these forums at least when used in addition to balance issues.

Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack.

and last but not least assuming we are not watching his replays is kinda really out there...
from your other posts it seems like you are a pretty mannered person, but as soon as it comes to balance you get very touchy..
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 19:59:40
August 19 2010 19:56 GMT
#2184
On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.

Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.

Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.



as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.

Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.


anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.

For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard?

I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...

Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player?

It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did!


i did awesome with that actually

but alas, sc2 is a diff game
and ive come to terms with that


well... i see u say upgraded mech
that's harder

but in general in sc1 my gameplan was to stop them from expanding enough to get 3/3 mech, and i generally did it with only zealot/goon
~Matthias
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada56 Posts
August 19 2010 19:58 GMT
#2185
Where can I check out the games? Both sites posted only have like 2 VODs. And they load EXTREMELY slow.
I attend church Sunday to Thursday at 7pm PST on day9.tv
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9376 Posts
August 19 2010 20:01 GMT
#2186
IM a bit to afraid to read all the post in this forum (afraid of getting spoiled), but I wondered if the VODs has been uploaded yet?
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
August 19 2010 20:01 GMT
#2187
Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack.

It doesn't? I don't know much about socke, but in general if one person is doing really well with a race and everyone else fails that's not indicative of a balance problem. I don't see how the Bisu comparison is relevant either; yes, of course if he has a build that does really well against Zerg it changes the balance. It doesn't matter if most people can't use it well, he can. We are talking about balance at the highest levels of play, right?
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 20:11:05
August 19 2010 20:04 GMT
#2188
On August 20 2010 04:50 deo.deo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.

Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.

Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.



as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.

Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.


anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.

For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard?

I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...


well first of all it seems like the phrase "stop complaining" isnt very well liked on these forums at least when used in addition to balance issues.

Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack.

and last but not least assuming we are not watching his replays is kinda really out there...
from your other posts it seems like you are a pretty mannered person, but as soon as it comes to balance you get very touchy..

Because every ladder game a terran player plays, will start or end with his opponent telling you how imbalanced the race is and how much you suck.

On August 20 2010 04:56 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.

Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.

Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.



as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.

Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.


anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.

For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard?

I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...

Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player?

It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did!


i did awesome with that actually

but alas, sc2 is a diff game
and ive come to terms with that


well... i see u say upgraded mech
that's harder

but in general in sc1 my gameplan was to stop them from expanding enough to get 3/3 mech, and i generally did it with only zealot/goon

Well you quit SC1 in like 2003ish? I mean, TvP changed a lot since then - just macro mode P just doesn't work.

On August 20 2010 04:38 illumination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:
On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity".


Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not?


That's pretty much the point.


no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play?
hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ?

its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either.

but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester.

if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games.

doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good

TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative

- Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general)
- One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important)
- Relentless infestor play vs bio

How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.

I don't know what to say - it honestly just seems like you have decided on a single view and it isn't going to change no matter what anyone says.

He plays ZvT differently from anyone else I've played, IMO that's enough to call him creative. Btw, no, not many players did those things before him - he's played throughout the entire beta. Maybe innovative is a better word to describe that.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
zeox
Profile Joined November 2007
Norway314 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 20:08:33
August 19 2010 20:08 GMT
#2189
are anyone else having problems loading the vods from day one on the esl site? it's excruciatingly slow for me :/
themineralpatch.com -- twitter.com/inged
QueueQueue
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada1000 Posts
August 19 2010 20:08 GMT
#2190
On August 20 2010 05:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:50 deo.deo wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.

Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.

Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment.



as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm.

Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god.


anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._.

For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard?

I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...


well first of all it seems like the phrase "stop complaining" isnt very well liked on these forums at least when used in addition to balance issues.

Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack.

and last but not least assuming we are not watching his replays is kinda really out there...
from your other posts it seems like you are a pretty mannered person, but as soon as it comes to balance you get very touchy..

Because every ladder game a terran player plays, will start or end with his opponent telling you how imbalanced the race is and how much you suck.


Agreed. As I am finishing a game, the negative talk inevitably comes, without exaggerating, 50% of the time . I should compile a collage of screenshots of all the things I hear from opposing players. I've even recently had a random player verbally attack me after beating him in a TvZ match.
illumination
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)248 Posts
August 19 2010 20:13 GMT
#2191
Well one calling a race imbalanced isn't a bad thing. Terrans did it a ton and you can see the results. But maybe it is because nowadays terrans no longer believe imbalance can exist. Also everyone says you suck after losing it isnt just a terran thing, plus terran is a frustrating race because you have to account for alot of things so there is a lot of trial and error and learning from your mistakes involved.
Welcome to TL - Where Terran have been teaching the Zerg / Toss pros how to play since Patch 11
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
August 19 2010 20:21 GMT
#2192
On August 20 2010 05:13 illumination wrote:
Well one calling a race imbalanced isn't a bad thing. Terrans did it a ton and you can see the results. But maybe it is because nowadays terrans no longer believe imbalance can exist. Also everyone says you suck after losing it isnt just a terran thing, plus terran is a frustrating race because you have to account for alot of things so there is a lot of trial and error and learning from your mistakes involved.

I don't even disagree that some things might need fixing - I'm just sick of every single aspect of the game being called imbalanced =[
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
deo.deo
Profile Joined April 2010
135 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 20:29:07
August 19 2010 20:28 GMT
#2193
On August 20 2010 05:21 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 05:13 illumination wrote:
Well one calling a race imbalanced isn't a bad thing. Terrans did it a ton and you can see the results. But maybe it is because nowadays terrans no longer believe imbalance can exist. Also everyone says you suck after losing it isnt just a terran thing, plus terran is a frustrating race because you have to account for alot of things so there is a lot of trial and error and learning from your mistakes involved.

I don't even disagree that some things might need fixing - I'm just sick of every single aspect of the game being called imbalanced =[


its just a stupid cycle, at one point there will be a phase for another race to appear winning it all. And the same people that are argue now to give the game some more time will change their minds and demand a patch and vice-versa. :/
exarchrum
Profile Joined August 2010
United States491 Posts
August 19 2010 20:34 GMT
#2194
Thanks for the link! Time to watch some replays.
justin.tv/exarch watch me play!
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
August 19 2010 20:39 GMT
#2195
On August 20 2010 04:38 illumination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:
On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity".


Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not?


That's pretty much the point.


no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play?
hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ?

its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either.

but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester.

if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games.

doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good

TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative

- Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general)
- One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important)
- Relentless infestor play vs bio

How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.


Well i guess you werent around in the beta when everyone was still using bw build order and forge fes, and bitching that stalkers were bad dragoons. This was before ultras got bonus damage to armored, before fungal growth became a skilless instant cast, before people realised that there was more to zvx than roaches and ppl bitched not having early game aa. Add that to list, popularised mass quenn. And now you kind of get it, lots of what he, dimaga and lots of other zergs did has become more normal and reasonable. But it was Creative at the time. Nazgul figured out the first reasonable way to forge expand as toss. He made a wall with a cannon. every toss knows this build now but you have no idea how many dumbasses said it couldnt be done cos they kept doing it bw style and run over by lings. U gonna take that away from nazgul and call that creative moment just inevitable and obvious??

Who knows. Maybe i am putting too much faith in tlo. But today i saw him use a pdd to cover his medvac drop from 4 turrets and thought to myself, wow thats pretty clever, i didnt know you could harass like that. Or that pdds could even block turret fire. Might not be that original or his idea even, but him doing it ina serious game makes it known. Makes it applicable to your book of tactics and makes him look creative.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5552 Posts
August 19 2010 20:41 GMT
#2196
It'll be funny if 3 Zergs advance to the semifinals. I think it's actually likely with MaDFroG, DIMAGA and especially IdrA advancing. ^___^
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 21:14:58
August 19 2010 20:45 GMT
#2197
On August 20 2010 05:41 maybenexttime wrote:
It'll be funny if 3 Zergs advance to the semifinals. I think it's actually likely with MaDFroG, DIMAGA and especially IdrA advancing. ^___^


My money is on 3 terrans and 1 zerg advancing, but it would be great if I'm wrong. Perhaps it would be best if 2 terrans and 2 zerg advances so we'll not have to see too many mirror matchups.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
AntiHack
Profile Joined January 2009
Switzerland553 Posts
August 19 2010 20:46 GMT
#2198
A lot of fantastic games! I'm really hyped to see the real e-sport finally reach the foreign world :OO

:_D
"I am very tired of your grammar errors" - Zoler[MB]
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
August 19 2010 20:50 GMT
#2199
+ Show Spoiler +
<3 Idra + Dimaga <3
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
illumination
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 20:54:11
August 19 2010 20:51 GMT
#2200
On August 20 2010 05:39 T0fuuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 04:38 illumination wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:
On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:
On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity".


Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not?


That's pretty much the point.


no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play?
hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ?

its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either.

but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester.

if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games.

doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good

TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative

- Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general)
- One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important)
- Relentless infestor play vs bio

How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.


Well i guess you werent around in the beta when everyone was still using bw build order and forge fes, and bitching that stalkers were bad dragoons. This was before ultras got bonus damage to armored, before fungal growth became a skilless instant cast, before people realised that there was more to zvx than roaches and ppl bitched not having early game aa. Add that to list, popularised mass quenn. And now you kind of get it, lots of what he, dimaga and lots of other zergs did has become more normal and reasonable. But it was Creative at the time. Nazgul figured out the first reasonable way to forge expand as toss. He made a wall with a cannon. every toss knows this build now but you have no idea how many dumbasses said it couldnt be done cos they kept doing it bw style and run over by lings. U gonna take that away from nazgul and call that creative moment just inevitable and obvious??

Who knows. Maybe i am putting too much faith in tlo. But today i saw him use a pdd to cover his medvac drop from 4 turrets and thought to myself, wow thats pretty clever, i didnt know you could harass like that. Or that pdds could even block turret fire. Might not be that original or his idea even, but him doing it ina serious game makes it known. Makes it applicable to your book of tactics and makes him look creative.

Well one i was around in the very beginning of beta so i dunno where you came up with that. Using bw build orders makes more sense than starting from scratch. stalkers have about as much dps as a marine so i can see their point. i know it was different but u are comparing tlo to the average player. I didnt see he had the creativity of the average player but he is the most popular sc2 player because of his 'creativity' when his creative accomplishments aren't greater than many many others. This continued until he has a very strict following of people saying that zergs aren't playing this right just look at tlo, and now its continuing with madfrog when they are way overrated. IdrA even pointed out their flaws and he has proved to be right it just isn't stable enough to be useful, ( for example madfrogs frequent use of hidden expos). Also the average persons definition of creativity is very strange and only refers to the big things. If you watch IdrA's play he makes a ton of tiny adjustments which, although mean less, require just as much thought and resourcefulness as the bigger things.But IdrA comes off as the least creative and is bashed for being a machine who is totally uncreative and boring. Also TLO wasn't inventing the stuff in the very beginning i dunno where you get your scources
Welcome to TL - Where Terran have been teaching the Zerg / Toss pros how to play since Patch 11
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 113 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 1
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinELIVE!
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Rogue
Serral vs ByuN
EWC_Arena4328
ComeBackTV 2005
TaKeTV 497
Hui .475
Berry_CruncH391
3DClanTV 314
Rex266
Fuzer 233
CranKy Ducklings206
EnkiAlexander 159
mcanning147
UpATreeSC124
Reynor110
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena4328
Hui .475
Rex 266
Fuzer 233
mcanning 147
UpATreeSC 124
Reynor 110
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30426
Bisu 2410
Barracks 2146
Jaedong 1239
Mini 1178
EffOrt 1023
Stork 703
Larva 550
Soma 424
Soulkey 308
[ Show more ]
actioN 192
Snow 174
ToSsGirL 133
Pusan 124
ZerO 79
Rush 70
PianO 59
Sharp 52
Backho 46
Sea.KH 45
Movie 43
soO 28
sas.Sziky 28
Yoon 23
Free 23
JulyZerg 21
sSak 20
Icarus 19
yabsab 13
zelot 13
ivOry 6
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe371
Counter-Strike
x6flipin627
oskar260
markeloff126
edward73
Super Smash Bros
Westballz21
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor117
XaKoH 67
Other Games
singsing2765
B2W.Neo1734
crisheroes350
syndereN129
ArmadaUGS86
Trikslyr24
ZerO(Twitch)21
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4497
• Stunt1118
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
20h 41m
Esports World Cup
1d 20h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.