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On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative - Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general) - One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important) - Relentless infestor play vs bio
How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.
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On August 20 2010 04:30 Cranberries wrote:
Sure, he may be creative, but he sure as Hell wouldn't be "creative" if he played Protoss or Zerg nearly as much as he plays Terran.
The argument is all relative to the race though. TLO has used a wider variety of T builds than most other Terran players. TLO has also used a wider variety of Z builds than most other Zerg players. P composition is pretty bland, and maybe that's why TLO sucks with Protoss... who knows?
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On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs...
well first of all it seems like the phrase "stop complaining" isnt very well liked on these forums at least when used in addition to balance issues.
Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack.
and last but not least assuming we are not watching his replays is kinda really out there...
from your other posts it seems like you are a pretty mannered person, but as soon as it comes to balance you get very touchy..
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On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player? It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did!
i did awesome with that actually
but alas, sc2 is a diff game
and ive come to terms with that
well... i see u say upgraded mech
that's harder
but in general in sc1 my gameplan was to stop them from expanding enough to get 3/3 mech, and i generally did it with only zealot/goon
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Where can I check out the games? Both sites posted only have like 2 VODs. And they load EXTREMELY slow.
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IM a bit to afraid to read all the post in this forum (afraid of getting spoiled), but I wondered if the VODs has been uploaded yet?
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Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack.
It doesn't? I don't know much about socke, but in general if one person is doing really well with a race and everyone else fails that's not indicative of a balance problem. I don't see how the Bisu comparison is relevant either; yes, of course if he has a build that does really well against Zerg it changes the balance. It doesn't matter if most people can't use it well, he can. We are talking about balance at the highest levels of play, right?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 04:50 deo.deo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... well first of all it seems like the phrase "stop complaining" isnt very well liked on these forums at least when used in addition to balance issues. Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack. and last but not least assuming we are not watching his replays is kinda really out there... from your other posts it seems like you are a pretty mannered person, but as soon as it comes to balance you get very touchy..
Because every ladder game a terran player plays, will start or end with his opponent telling you how imbalanced the race is and how much you suck.
On August 20 2010 04:56 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 04:06 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... Do you think it's fair that Protoss only has a chance against Terran (in PvT) when the Protoss has two different T3 techs, with T2 and T3 upgrades and out micro's/out macro's the T player? It seems exactly the same as in SC1, so yes? Go try and fight upgraded mech with T1/T2 in SC1 and tell me how you did! i did awesome with that actually but alas, sc2 is a diff game and ive come to terms with that well... i see u say upgraded mech that's harder but in general in sc1 my gameplan was to stop them from expanding enough to get 3/3 mech, and i generally did it with only zealot/goon
Well you quit SC1 in like 2003ish? I mean, TvP changed a lot since then - just macro mode P just doesn't work.
On August 20 2010 04:38 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative - Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general) - One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important) - Relentless infestor play vs bio How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.
I don't know what to say - it honestly just seems like you have decided on a single view and it isn't going to change no matter what anyone says.
He plays ZvT differently from anyone else I've played, IMO that's enough to call him creative. Btw, no, not many players did those things before him - he's played throughout the entire beta. Maybe innovative is a better word to describe that.
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are anyone else having problems loading the vods from day one on the esl site? it's excruciatingly slow for me :/
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On August 20 2010 05:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:50 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 04:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:46 deo.deo wrote:On August 20 2010 03:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 03:38 Black Gun wrote:On August 20 2010 03:37 Azarkon wrote:
Looking at the results, it seems like an even split between Protoss players having trouble with Terran and Protoss players having trouble with Zerg. Ultimately they were eliminated because they failed against both of the other races.
Meanwhile, it seems that the top Zergs are having a relatively easy time against Protoss - except for Dimaga, none of the four Zerg players dropped Bo3 matches to Protoss. Artosis was eliminated by Terrans, and the rest of the Zergs were able to advance by posting good results vs. Terrans.
Hmm... Guess PvZ is favoring Zerg at the moment. as a protoss player, im far more concerned with pvt than pvz atm. Watch Socke reps and stop complaining. Socke = PvT god. anyone else would have gotten at least a warning for this post ._. For what? Socke plays PvT so well/intelligently, what's wrong with pointing it out to anyone who thinks PvT is too hard? I seriously think any P player would benefit from watching his PvTs... well first of all it seems like the phrase "stop complaining" isnt very well liked on these forums at least when used in addition to balance issues. Also stating one player being able to play well (who is playing high level toss for a long long time) against terran doesnt mean jack. and last but not least assuming we are not watching his replays is kinda really out there... from your other posts it seems like you are a pretty mannered person, but as soon as it comes to balance you get very touchy.. Because every ladder game a terran player plays, will start or end with his opponent telling you how imbalanced the race is and how much you suck.
Agreed. As I am finishing a game, the negative talk inevitably comes, without exaggerating, 50% of the time . I should compile a collage of screenshots of all the things I hear from opposing players. I've even recently had a random player verbally attack me after beating him in a TvZ match.
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Well one calling a race imbalanced isn't a bad thing. Terrans did it a ton and you can see the results. But maybe it is because nowadays terrans no longer believe imbalance can exist. Also everyone says you suck after losing it isnt just a terran thing, plus terran is a frustrating race because you have to account for alot of things so there is a lot of trial and error and learning from your mistakes involved.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 05:13 illumination wrote:
Well one calling a race imbalanced isn't a bad thing. Terrans did it a ton and you can see the results. But maybe it is because nowadays terrans no longer believe imbalance can exist. Also everyone says you suck after losing it isnt just a terran thing, plus terran is a frustrating race because you have to account for alot of things so there is a lot of trial and error and learning from your mistakes involved.
I don't even disagree that some things might need fixing - I'm just sick of every single aspect of the game being called imbalanced =[
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On August 20 2010 05:21 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 05:13 illumination wrote:
Well one calling a race imbalanced isn't a bad thing. Terrans did it a ton and you can see the results. But maybe it is because nowadays terrans no longer believe imbalance can exist. Also everyone says you suck after losing it isnt just a terran thing, plus terran is a frustrating race because you have to account for alot of things so there is a lot of trial and error and learning from your mistakes involved. I don't even disagree that some things might need fixing - I'm just sick of every single aspect of the game being called imbalanced =[
its just a stupid cycle, at one point there will be a phase for another race to appear winning it all. And the same people that are argue now to give the game some more time will change their minds and demand a patch and vice-versa. :/
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Thanks for the link! Time to watch some replays.
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On August 20 2010 04:38 illumination wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative - Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general) - One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important) - Relentless infestor play vs bio How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it.
Well i guess you werent around in the beta when everyone was still using bw build order and forge fes, and bitching that stalkers were bad dragoons. This was before ultras got bonus damage to armored, before fungal growth became a skilless instant cast, before people realised that there was more to zvx than roaches and ppl bitched not having early game aa. Add that to list, popularised mass quenn. And now you kind of get it, lots of what he, dimaga and lots of other zergs did has become more normal and reasonable. But it was Creative at the time. Nazgul figured out the first reasonable way to forge expand as toss. He made a wall with a cannon. every toss knows this build now but you have no idea how many dumbasses said it couldnt be done cos they kept doing it bw style and run over by lings. U gonna take that away from nazgul and call that creative moment just inevitable and obvious??
Who knows. Maybe i am putting too much faith in tlo. But today i saw him use a pdd to cover his medvac drop from 4 turrets and thought to myself, wow thats pretty clever, i didnt know you could harass like that. Or that pdds could even block turret fire. Might not be that original or his idea even, but him doing it ina serious game makes it known. Makes it applicable to your book of tactics and makes him look creative.
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It'll be funny if 3 Zergs advance to the semifinals.  I think it's actually likely with MaDFroG, DIMAGA and especially IdrA advancing. ^___^
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On August 20 2010 05:41 maybenexttime wrote:It'll be funny if 3 Zergs advance to the semifinals. I think it's actually likely with MaDFroG, DIMAGA and especially IdrA advancing. ^___^
My money is on 3 terrans and 1 zerg advancing, but it would be great if I'm wrong. Perhaps it would be best if 2 terrans and 2 zerg advances so we'll not have to see too many mirror matchups.
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A lot of fantastic games! I'm really hyped to see the real e-sport finally reach the foreign world :OO
:_D
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On August 20 2010 05:39 T0fuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 04:38 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 04:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 04:12 illumination wrote:On August 20 2010 03:35 T0fuuu wrote:On August 20 2010 03:15 Cranberries wrote:On August 20 2010 03:14 JPSke wrote:On August 20 2010 02:49 Cranberries wrote:
People jump on the "OH MY GOD TLO IS SO CREATIVE" bandwagon but in reality he's only allowed to be as creative as he wants because he plays Terran and Terran, unlike P/Z, have so many composite forces that work well together and synergise. If I wanted to play Protoss going Immortal, Void Ray and Carrier people would laugh at me: but going Marine, Banshee, Viking is "creativity". Lets just ignore where the units come in the tech tree and make a stupid comparison, sure why not? That's pretty much the point. no you just want to slander him without watching his games. do you think 12 hatch expand is normal? or infestor ling into fast hive/ultra? what abt 2 base lair into burrow ling baneling play? hes shown creativity in zerg as well. when most other zergs havent gone past 13/14 pool, hatch roach/hydra or ling muta. Whats idras new revelation ? 14 gas 14 pool. wow. its like 12,13 but with an extra drone for eco. its not hard to see why ppl see him as playing differently. And even then he will humbly admit that sen is just as if not more creative than him. heck TLO even walks his queens across the map to YOUR NATURAL to plant creep tumours. HOW MORE NON-STANDARD CAN YOU GET ? its not like his tvt or tvz is normal either. but al least you admit his T is creative. seeing alot more ghostplay from him theses days. and alot of weird hellion combinations that other players havent reallly done either. but yeah his protoss sucks . if you want to look at a creative protoss, theres socke whitera tester. if you want to slander tlo, you should at least watch more of his games. doesnt count if it doesnt work. I can make really wierd combinations ( not that ling infestor into muta is creative) that are absolutely awful. His build like idra predicted is easily countered and not worth doing and 12 hatch wow thats creative.. its not normal because its not good TLO has made zero contributions to zerg and now he plays korean style terran so no he is not creative - Pioneered ultras vs mech (and terran in general) - One of the first zergs to really focus on creep spreading (sooo important) - Relentless infestor play vs bio How can you give someone credit for using a unit in such a general it is so obvious. Ive used ultras at the beginning of mechs popularity but its obvious that the ultra is a great option against all the mech units (esp after roach nerf. Again creep spreading is soo vague i am sure many many players have been doing it before him. Who hasnt realized that fungal growth was a specially practically designed for bio. If this passes for creative for you then fine hes creative, but relatively he is not. I do appreciate the effort in him trying i guess but i lost faith then his ling infestor strat fell through when he predicted that terrans would have a hard time dealing with it. Well i guess you werent around in the beta when everyone was still using bw build order and forge fes, and bitching that stalkers were bad dragoons. This was before ultras got bonus damage to armored, before fungal growth became a skilless instant cast, before people realised that there was more to zvx than roaches and ppl bitched not having early game aa. Add that to list, popularised mass quenn. And now you kind of get it, lots of what he, dimaga and lots of other zergs did has become more normal and reasonable. But it was Creative at the time. Nazgul figured out the first reasonable way to forge expand as toss. He made a wall with a cannon. every toss knows this build now but you have no idea how many dumbasses said it couldnt be done cos they kept doing it bw style and run over by lings. U gonna take that away from nazgul and call that creative moment just inevitable and obvious?? Who knows. Maybe i am putting too much faith in tlo. But today i saw him use a pdd to cover his medvac drop from 4 turrets and thought to myself, wow thats pretty clever, i didnt know you could harass like that. Or that pdds could even block turret fire. Might not be that original or his idea even, but him doing it ina serious game makes it known. Makes it applicable to your book of tactics and makes him look creative.
Well one i was around in the very beginning of beta so i dunno where you came up with that. Using bw build orders makes more sense than starting from scratch. stalkers have about as much dps as a marine so i can see their point. i know it was different but u are comparing tlo to the average player. I didnt see he had the creativity of the average player but he is the most popular sc2 player because of his 'creativity' when his creative accomplishments aren't greater than many many others. This continued until he has a very strict following of people saying that zergs aren't playing this right just look at tlo, and now its continuing with madfrog when they are way overrated. IdrA even pointed out their flaws and he has proved to be right it just isn't stable enough to be useful, ( for example madfrogs frequent use of hidden expos). Also the average persons definition of creativity is very strange and only refers to the big things. If you watch IdrA's play he makes a ton of tiny adjustments which, although mean less, require just as much thought and resourcefulness as the bigger things.But IdrA comes off as the least creative and is bashed for being a machine who is totally uncreative and boring. Also TLO wasn't inventing the stuff in the very beginning i dunno where you get your scources
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EPT
