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On April 05 2016 04:48 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 00:36 AleXusher wrote:
what is about TvZ? your Guides are good, but they take WAY to much time, i rather have a writen guide with just some YT Videos as material to see what is meant If I was to write all of this material, it would still take you about 20-30 minutes to read through it all. There is simply too much information going on to make my content any shorter without significantly decreasing the quality I dunno man, many people can read at least twice as fast as they can talk. And in your videos, where you do give out some great info btw, you talk pretty slow and sometimes repeat yourself. Most people repeat themselves sometimes but in writing it can be edited out. Of course you are not obligated to make written guides, just as you're not obligated to make videos. But reading written material is always going to be way faster than listening to a verbal explanation.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37123 Posts
What do you guys do in TvP when the Protoss does a warp prism + DT drop when you've moving out to put on pressure? I feel like I'm just automatically behind because I have to waste so much money on turrets and energy on scans :/
I can't stim in and kill him either cause he'll just warp in DTs and force me to scan in the front anyways.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Honestly, in TvP I've taken to playing very passively. Some drops here, a liberator there, but generally I struggle to find damage to the point where I'm more comfortable keeping almost everything at home for defense.
It feels really weird to play like that but it works surprisingly well.
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On April 05 2016 22:05 Elentos wrote:
Honestly, in TvP I've taken to playing very passively. Some drops here, a liberator there, but generally I struggle to find damage to the point where I'm more comfortable keeping almost everything at home for defense.
It feels really weird to play like that but it works surprisingly well.
I think this game shows the best way to play tvp at the moment
www.youtube.com
just playing very passively in the first 10-15 minutes protecting your bases with bunkers, turrets and a cyclone before becoming aggressive. then going all out with the aggression trying to end the game before the protoss gets to tempest + storm which is nearly impossible to beat.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 05 2016 23:22 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 22:05 Elentos wrote:
Honestly, in TvP I've taken to playing very passively. Some drops here, a liberator there, but generally I struggle to find damage to the point where I'm more comfortable keeping almost everything at home for defense.
It feels really weird to play like that but it works surprisingly well. I think this game shows the best way to play tvp at the moment www.youtube.comjust playing very passively in the first 10-15 minutes protecting your bases with bunkers, turrets and a cyclone before becoming aggressive. then going all out with the aggression trying to end the game before the protoss gets to tempest + storm which is nearly impossible to beat.
The general approach I agree with, but Maru is Maru. He made no ghosts and almost no liberators. Most of the time you don't get away with that.
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What are current macro benchmarks as Terran?
In HotS is was something like 10min 50-60SCVs depending on game and at 14min i think maxed out with 2/2 done if you play bio WM vs Zerg for expample. So what are the benchmarks in Lotv?
Also what are benchmarks when you have to adapt to your opponent? I played a training game, where i was able to be maxed out at around 9:00 just focusing on macro, still got a bit supplycapped but i managed to do that. 2/2, as well as the 4th base was taken and saturated at 10:00. But that only applies in an ideal macro game with no harras or cuts or adapts at all. In normal games i am like 130 supply at 9:00 which is, compared to pros, a huge difference!
Would rly like to hear some oppinions  Also just if someone is interessted, that would be the replay:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6575610
Also how many SCVs should i get? Is it still 66 or 72 for the gases at the 4th base?
I would also like to ask, what is the "ideal" base setup on 2, 3 and 4 Bases vs Protoss and Zerg, depending on their choosen tech? I think if i know that, that rly should help me out a lot. I wonder as well, when i should take my 3rd base in both MUs normally or in most cases.
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What are the go-to army compositions in TvP and TvZ these days? Liek before it was MMMM, now that doesn't seem as good anymore.
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I am a diamond terran, having a few questions.
When playing with zerg, how to defend the zerglings/banelings rush or roach rush? It is really hard to scout, and determine if the zerg decides to rush you.
Especially you opens with hellions, you need a pretty good skill to stop zerglings/banelings rush, and no way to block a roach rush.
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On April 05 2016 14:41 Seeker wrote:
What do you guys do in TvP when the Protoss does a warp prism + DT drop when you've moving out to put on pressure? I feel like I'm just automatically behind because I have to waste so much money on turrets and energy on scans :/
I can't stim in and kill him either cause he'll just warp in DTs and force me to scan in the front anyways.
get a viking out of your reactored starport and 2 turrets on the perimeters of the base;
other than that don't get too flustered and focus on taking a third base.
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On April 06 2016 07:54 Tudou wrote:
I am a diamond terran, having a few questions.
When playing with zerg, how to defend the zerglings/banelings rush or roach rush? It is really hard to scout, and determine if the zerg decides to rush you.
Especially you opens with hellions, you need a pretty good skill to stop zerglings/banelings rush, and no way to block a roach rush.
For scouting:
Open reaper expand, also scv scout if you're afraid of gas/pool before hatch builds on 2player maps. It's important that your reaper scouts the gas, 3 drones on gas after 100 gas is mined means some kind of tech build is coming. Keep your reaper active on the Zerg's side of the maps, pay attention to his natural's drone count. I don't know your league, but at higher levels counting the drones on the natural @100 gas mined is important, if he's mining with 3-4 drones it means he pulled off gas. If you know he has mined a lot of gas, suicide the reaper into one base if need be and scan the base that the reaper didn't see. You will see his gas count and wether he's getting a lair or not, that's basically all the information you need.
It all comes down to being active with the reaper.
As for holding it, depends on your build. Versus ling bane hellions are preferable, vs any kind of roach rush tanks (+ a medivac) are preferable. I like to open with a tank.
I'm actually not entirely sure if that can hold ling bane all ins, but you should be able to still hold ling bane all ins on some maps with a proper wall. If you scout it before you started the tank, make a few hellions out of the factory, 2-3 hellions + bunker(s) should make for an easy hold.
If you could post a replay it will be easier to give pointers.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
What maps do you guys veto? I'm pretty uncomfortable with the current map pool. I currently have Ulrena, Prion Terraces and KCK vetoed, but I loathe playing on Invader and I'm tired of Dusk Towers.
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On April 06 2016 21:53 Elentos wrote:
What maps do you guys veto? I'm pretty uncomfortable with the current map pool. I currently have Ulrena, Prion Terraces and KCK vetoed, but I loathe playing on Invader and I'm tired of Dusk Towers.
KCK and Invader. Ulrena and Prion Terraces are not that bad - sure, the obnoxious 2-3b Roaches-Ravagers all-ins are tiresome to defend, but it's possible to beat Zerg on these maps, while I believe Protoss actually has a rather hard time, stupid 1-2b all-ins aside, on Ulrena. What I cannot stand are massive maps where slowing Zerg's development down with midgame attacks is close to impossible, and where Protoss can hide his rubbish almost anywhere on the map and it's unscoutable even with a live Reaper.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 06 2016 22:04 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 21:53 Elentos wrote:
What maps do you guys veto? I'm pretty uncomfortable with the current map pool. I currently have Ulrena, Prion Terraces and KCK vetoed, but I loathe playing on Invader and I'm tired of Dusk Towers. KCK and Invader. Ulrena and Prion Terraces are not that bad - sure, the obnoxious 2-3b Roaches-Ravagers all-ins are tiresome to defend, but it's possible to beat Zerg on these maps, while I believe Protoss actually has a rather hard time, stupid 1-2b all-ins aside, on Ulrena. What I cannot stand are massive maps where slowing Zerg's development down with midgame attacks is close to impossible, and where Protoss can hide his rubbish almost anywhere on the map and it's unscoutable even with a live Reaper.
Honestly the reason I vetoed Ulrena is because I'm very uncomfortable with playing TvT on it.
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On April 06 2016 22:09 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 22:04 EatingBomber wrote:On April 06 2016 21:53 Elentos wrote:
What maps do you guys veto? I'm pretty uncomfortable with the current map pool. I currently have Ulrena, Prion Terraces and KCK vetoed, but I loathe playing on Invader and I'm tired of Dusk Towers. KCK and Invader. Ulrena and Prion Terraces are not that bad - sure, the obnoxious 2-3b Roaches-Ravagers all-ins are tiresome to defend, but it's possible to beat Zerg on these maps, while I believe Protoss actually has a rather hard time, stupid 1-2b all-ins aside, on Ulrena. What I cannot stand are massive maps where slowing Zerg's development down with midgame attacks is close to impossible, and where Protoss can hide his rubbish almost anywhere on the map and it's unscoutable even with a live Reaper. Honestly the reason I vetoed Ulrena is because I'm very uncomfortable with playing TvT on it.
With the tankivacs nonsense I am uncomfortable playing TvT on every map, because I know I can die any instant to a doom drop if I am not careful, so there.
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I hate TvT too but the key I'm learning is to always be the aggressor. It's just so hard to respond to certain positions and with the tankivacs you can get into those money positions so freaking quickly.
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Which maps to veto as Terran if you play mech?
The only map that I like in the current map pool is Dusk Towers. But which maps should you veto if you are a mech player?
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On April 06 2016 03:43 AleXusher wrote:What are current macro benchmarks as Terran? In HotS is was something like 10min 50-60SCVs depending on game and at 14min i think maxed out with 2/2 done if you play bio WM vs Zerg for expample. So what are the benchmarks in Lotv? Also what are benchmarks when you have to adapt to your opponent? I played a training game, where i was able to be maxed out at around 9:00 just focusing on macro, still got a bit supplycapped but i managed to do that. 2/2, as well as the 4th base was taken and saturated at 10:00. But that only applies in an ideal macro game with no harras or cuts or adapts at all. In normal games i am like 130 supply at 9:00 which is, compared to pros, a huge difference! Would rly like to hear some oppinions Also just if someone is interessted, that would be the replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6575610Also how many SCVs should i get? Is it still 66 or 72 for the gases at the 4th base? I would also like to ask, what is the "ideal" base setup on 2, 3 and 4 Bases vs Protoss and Zerg, depending on their choosen tech? I think if i know that, that rly should help me out a lot. I wonder as well, when i should take my 3rd base in both MUs normally or in most cases.
i am interested in knowing this as well.
This is an important aspect of play - allows you to refine your macro.
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On April 07 2016 05:53 doss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 03:43 AleXusher wrote:What are current macro benchmarks as Terran? In HotS is was something like 10min 50-60SCVs depending on game and at 14min i think maxed out with 2/2 done if you play bio WM vs Zerg for expample. So what are the benchmarks in Lotv? Also what are benchmarks when you have to adapt to your opponent? I played a training game, where i was able to be maxed out at around 9:00 just focusing on macro, still got a bit supplycapped but i managed to do that. 2/2, as well as the 4th base was taken and saturated at 10:00. But that only applies in an ideal macro game with no harras or cuts or adapts at all. In normal games i am like 130 supply at 9:00 which is, compared to pros, a huge difference! Would rly like to hear some oppinions Also just if someone is interessted, that would be the replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6575610Also how many SCVs should i get? Is it still 66 or 72 for the gases at the 4th base? I would also like to ask, what is the "ideal" base setup on 2, 3 and 4 Bases vs Protoss and Zerg, depending on their choosen tech? I think if i know that, that rly should help me out a lot. I wonder as well, when i should take my 3rd base in both MUs normally or in most cases. i am interested in knowing this as well. This is an important aspect of play - allows you to refine your macro.
It completely depends on the build/style you are playing in each match up although for bio across the board I think being near maxed by 9 minutes if nothing crazy happened with upgrades rolling and a fourth going down is a good benchmark. In TvT your setup should be 5 rax 1 fact 1 starport before your fourth starts then I add a second factory into three more rax to go up to 4 bases 8 rax 2 fact 1 starport. In TvP I again have 5/1/1 before the fourth then I add three more rax for 8/1/1 into a tech labbed starport for 8/1/2 on 4 bases. I go 5 rax before 3rd CC in my TvP to really pour on the mid game pressure. In TvZ I think it depends a lot on compositions. Again on three bases I'm normally at 5/1/1 into a fourth into three more raxes into a tech labbed starport so a pretty similar setup to my TvP four base setup though I'm getting a considerably earlier third in TvZ. I think a lot of players underestimate how good widow mines can be to combat ultras so I'm normally on a naked factory making widow mines for drops and extra zoning a lot of the game. Libs + medivacs + widow mines and a lot of bio underneath is a really strong composition especially when you are adding in significant marauder numbers.
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On April 07 2016 05:53 doss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 03:43 AleXusher wrote:What are current macro benchmarks as Terran? In HotS is was something like 10min 50-60SCVs depending on game and at 14min i think maxed out with 2/2 done if you play bio WM vs Zerg for expample. So what are the benchmarks in Lotv? Also what are benchmarks when you have to adapt to your opponent? I played a training game, where i was able to be maxed out at around 9:00 just focusing on macro, still got a bit supplycapped but i managed to do that. 2/2, as well as the 4th base was taken and saturated at 10:00. But that only applies in an ideal macro game with no harras or cuts or adapts at all. In normal games i am like 130 supply at 9:00 which is, compared to pros, a huge difference! Would rly like to hear some oppinions Also just if someone is interessted, that would be the replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6575610Also how many SCVs should i get? Is it still 66 or 72 for the gases at the 4th base? I would also like to ask, what is the "ideal" base setup on 2, 3 and 4 Bases vs Protoss and Zerg, depending on their choosen tech? I think if i know that, that rly should help me out a lot. I wonder as well, when i should take my 3rd base in both MUs normally or in most cases. i am interested in knowing this as well. This is an important aspect of play - allows you to refine your macro.
62 is about all you need total in this economy because your mineral patches will dry out quickly enough on your main and natural by the time you land your fourth. (62 is full economy on 3 bases...)
if you take your fourth base early make maybe a handful more otherwise don't be that Terran with redundant workers on each base.
Basically-Pay attention to the saturation on your first 3 bases and make sure you're getting to optimal saturation ASAP, this is more important than anything else!
it's not how many it's HOW QUICKLY
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On April 07 2016 10:31 BeStFAN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 05:53 doss wrote:On April 06 2016 03:43 AleXusher wrote:What are current macro benchmarks as Terran? In HotS is was something like 10min 50-60SCVs depending on game and at 14min i think maxed out with 2/2 done if you play bio WM vs Zerg for expample. So what are the benchmarks in Lotv? Also what are benchmarks when you have to adapt to your opponent? I played a training game, where i was able to be maxed out at around 9:00 just focusing on macro, still got a bit supplycapped but i managed to do that. 2/2, as well as the 4th base was taken and saturated at 10:00. But that only applies in an ideal macro game with no harras or cuts or adapts at all. In normal games i am like 130 supply at 9:00 which is, compared to pros, a huge difference! Would rly like to hear some oppinions Also just if someone is interessted, that would be the replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6575610Also how many SCVs should i get? Is it still 66 or 72 for the gases at the 4th base? I would also like to ask, what is the "ideal" base setup on 2, 3 and 4 Bases vs Protoss and Zerg, depending on their choosen tech? I think if i know that, that rly should help me out a lot. I wonder as well, when i should take my 3rd base in both MUs normally or in most cases. i am interested in knowing this as well. This is an important aspect of play - allows you to refine your macro. 62 is about all you need total in this economy because your mineral patches will dry out quickly enough on your main and natural by the time you land your fourth. (62 is full economy on 3 bases...) if you take your fourth base early make maybe a handful more otherwise don't be that Terran with redundant workers on each base. Basically-Pay attention to the saturation on your first 3 bases and make sure you're getting to optimal saturation ASAP, this is more important than anything else! it's not how many it's HOW QUICKLY
66 actually, 16 minerals + 6 gas per base.
Subtract 4 on Prion Terraces because your natural (and fourth) is a gold base and only has 6 mineral patches instead of the usual 8.
Also, you generally want as many SCVs building depots as you have bases so as not to get supply blocked, plus it can be helpful to have a spare or two so you can build without taking away from income.
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EPT
