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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Since the current map pool and game design prevents anything but bio I am thinking of just doing an all-in every game vs Protoss to get the match over with Which type of all-in is the most likely to succeed in TvP? Is is better to do a 1-base or 2-base all-in? Is it better to just go marine/medivac for the all in or to go marine/medivac/tank? Should I pull my workers or leave them at home? | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On April 08 2016 05:09 Adreaver wrote: 66 actually, 16 minerals + 6 gas per base. Subtract 4 on Prion Terraces because your natural (and fourth) is a gold base and only has 6 mineral patches instead of the usual 8. Also, you generally want as many SCVs building depots as you have bases so as not to get supply blocked, plus it can be helpful to have a spare or two so you can build without taking away from income. There's no set number because it depends entirely on your infrastructure, gameplan, the map and wether you want a relatively quick 4th or not. In hots things were so simple that you only needed 3 base saturation, but lotv is a more complicated game. Just a general observation, it would do the quality of this thread well to simplify everything less. Both questions and answers often aren't as comprehensive as they should be. | ||
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Guillermoman
24 Posts
On April 08 2016 20:28 MockHamill wrote: My TvP winrate is 35% due to me trying to play mech vs Protoss. Since the current map pool and game design prevents anything but bio I am thinking of just doing an all-in every game vs Protoss to get the match over with Which type of all-in is the most likely to succeed in TvP? Is is better to do a 1-base or 2-base all-in? Is it better to just go marine/medivac for the all in or to go marine/medivac/tank? Should I pull my workers or leave them at home? I personally like the 1 base all-in on most maps in the current pool. Marine/Tank with Starport production as Lib, Med, then Libs after. Tanks are mandatory for fighting against the new attacking pylons. As for workers, you can take a couple with you for building bunkers (and consider Engineering Bay for turret depending on if you see Stargate or DTs), but pulling isn't that good any more. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37071 Posts
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On April 13 2016 21:33 PinoKotsBeer wrote: What is the best way to deal with 1 base protoss that does a proxy stargate -> voidray mass adept? i tried to make libs, but the get instant killed... Bunkers and turrets. If he's taking his time with the bust get a tank. But bunkers + repair + turrets should be enough. On April 13 2016 12:23 Seeker wrote: It seems like reaper fe is the most standard opening nowadays for TvT. But when I tried to do it I got owned by 3 rax reaper. To all terran players out there who go reaper fe, how the hell do you block 3 rax reaper? It hits so freaking fast... You pretty much can't. Scv scout -> see if he's getting 2 gasses -> if he is check if he's building a factory. If he's not building a factory don't expand, get an extra barracks and factory when you can and micro your heart out, it's holdable but hard. If he's proxying something, still delay the expansion, and send an scv to proxy locations to confirm that it's not a proxy factory. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
i rly have no chance, when Ultras join the field. Unless i am able to somehow cripple Zerg hardcore and prevent ultras i lose every game in TvZ as soon as those Ultralisks pop. Funny thing, i just went through all those GSL SSL games i found in that playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgN32fqH1yth8VZDkibCSVv-swu_UxZeg&nohtml5=False and as far as i can say, all Terran died in a game, where ultras were out. Ofc that can have many reasons, but you would think that out of... 15? games, at least 5 or even 7-8 Terran should have won, like 50%? I mean, SC2 is balanced right? Kappa but srsly, how do i beat ultralisks? I cant beat them with bio, ok, fair enough. but Mech seems to be no viable option either. Skyterran? I dont think that rly works in most cases. And Ghosts are only good for turtlling, so you never attack? Libs, well i heared they get nerfed soon, and even if not, you just avoid the zones and you are fine, esp with Roach Ravager as startingpoint instead of LBM. Vs LBM Libs are somewhat viable, because they counter muta and in great numbers they are good vs Corruptor as well, just in case. But still, not rly a viable option. And Thor? I tried in unit test map with 3/3 vs full upgraded Ultralisk. Well, Terran loses in all cases. And lets be honest, when does Terran hast 3/3 mech upgrades, when playing bio? esp now that Sky and Mech have different attackupgrades again. So, pls tell me, how, am i supposed to win vs ultra, if i am NOT able to deal heavy dmg in mid game, and it is just even macro game? | ||
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oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
On April 13 2016 23:00 AleXusher wrote: Heyjo, i rly have no chance, when Ultras join the field. Unless i am able to somehow cripple Zerg hardcore and prevent ultras i lose every game in TvZ as soon as those Ultralisks pop. Funny thing, i just went through all those GSL SSL games i found in that playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgN32fqH1yth8VZDkibCSVv-swu_UxZeg&nohtml5=False and as far as i can say, all Terran died in a game, where ultras were out. Ofc that can have many reasons, but you would think that out of... 15? games, at least 5 or even 7-8 Terran should have won, like 50%? I mean, SC2 is balanced right? Kappa but srsly, how do i beat ultralisks? I cant beat them with bio, ok, fair enough. but Mech seems to be no viable option either. Skyterran? I dont think that rly works in most cases. And Ghosts are only good for turtlling, so you never attack? Libs, well i heared they get nerfed soon, and even if not, you just avoid the zones and you are fine, esp with Roach Ravager as startingpoint instead of LBM. Vs LBM Libs are somewhat viable, because they counter muta and in great numbers they are good vs Corruptor as well, just in case. But still, not rly a viable option. And Thor? I tried in unit test map with 3/3 vs full upgraded Ultralisk. Well, Terran loses in all cases. And lets be honest, when does Terran hast 3/3 mech upgrades, when playing bio? esp now that Sky and Mech have different attackupgrades again. So, pls tell me, how, am i supposed to win vs ultra, if i am NOT able to deal heavy dmg in mid game, and it is just even macro game? it might have more to do with how you engage the zerg than your composition, assuming you're not doing full unupgraded marines. The natural enemy of the ultra is pathfinding, so in defense, try to always have a building between your army and the ultras. if it's not possible, run and fight somewhere else. If you're attacking, use liberator to zone out any weak position, and force the zerg to fight where you want to fight. Just remember that once the ultras are out, you can't just brute force the zerg anymore, you have to proceed step by step, carefully. Use scans to never lose sight of his army, and never be surprised. I you want to play bio, drop a lot, because ultras are not that mobile. If you were there during the early sc2 days, take the zerg as we did with a late-game protoss : never ever ever fight against it if you are not in the perfect position | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On April 14 2016 01:29 AleXusher wrote: so how do i win vs zerg, if i never attack? at some point i have to commit, to win. what would be the perfect position? Mass ghost + mass ranged liberators. Slowly leapfrog across the map and snipe everything that tries to attack your libs. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
On April 14 2016 05:29 Charoisaur wrote: Mass ghost + mass ranged liberators. Slowly leapfrog across the map and snipe everything that tries to attack your libs. hm that seems to cost a lot^^ When would you start the switch to that composition? Does it also depend if you play vs LBM or RR into ultra? Or doesn't that affect it at all? | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
On April 14 2016 15:33 AleXusher wrote: hm that seems to cost a lot^^ When would you start the switch to that composition? Does it also depend if you play vs LBM or RR into ultra? Or doesn't that affect it at all? Of course it costs a lot, you don't sit back and turtle to get to a weak composition. | ||
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On April 15 2016 22:10 Universum wrote: So I'm really lost right now in macro TvP. I usually go for Marine+Marauder+Medivac+Mine then add ghosts to EMP. I try to keep upgrading bio non-stop while multi dropping. For some reason, there's just a point where I can never engage their army without getting wrecked. What compositions are you guys using ? What are you favorite openings ? I usually go Reaper Expand into 2 rax fast stim (MaSa build vs HuK in Katowice). How do you guys play the matchup ? That's not just you. Adept immortal crushes bio if you have no liberators. If he adds storm it gets even worse. You have to play liberator-heavy nowadays. | ||
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
On April 15 2016 23:40 Charoisaur wrote: That's not just you. Adept immortal crushes bio if you have no liberators. If he adds storm it gets even worse. You have to play liberator-heavy nowadays. Well I usually add a few, but for some reason it never quite worked out... I'll have to give it further testing | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
I think I am comfortable enough in the other two match-ups to justify not using them, though perhaps that is wrong in the case of zerg. Come to think of it, I'm not sure about my winrate vs zerg these days. I just go MMMM. Is that OK or not? | ||
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
On April 15 2016 23:53 Incognoto wrote: Liberators are so gas heavy, but I think it's a mistake not to make them in TvP. I think I am comfortable enough in the other two match-ups to justify not using them, though perhaps that is wrong in the case of zerg. Come to think of it, I'm not sure about my winrate vs zerg these days. I just go MMMM. Is that OK or not? You mean versus Zerg ? I tend to fail more then succeed with Bio vs zerg. I've had decent success with Mech though (Low/Mid Masters). I open with marines and hellbat, use tanks to allow expansions and slowly up the liberator count. Versus late game compositions (Ultralisks, Infestors, Broodlords etc...) I tend to go mass liberators, mass ghosts and a few tanks. Maybe some fellow MMMM players could chime in vs Zerg. I struggled with it personnally. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
I just played vs Zerg and just not having success though against Roach. I wonder versus mass roach / ravager what you're supposed to do? MMMM is just not the most efficient answer. | ||
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Universum
Canada192 Posts
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On April 16 2016 05:50 Incognoto wrote: I'm not a fan of Mech, I need to end the game in under 15 minutes if I can. I just prefer that style, it's a little brittle though. I just played vs Zerg and just not having success though against Roach. I wonder versus mass roach / ravager what you're supposed to do? MMMM is just not the most efficient answer. TY and Maru go pure marine/tank (with medivacs obv.) against mass roach/ravager (only adding marauders if a transition from the Zerg is in sight). With proper micro the tanks don't ever die and dodging biles with marines is easy. You can see with just 2 tankivacs TY denies creep and pushes back a huge army. | ||
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Also just if someone is interessted, that would be the replay:
