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The LotV Terran Help Me Thread

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8155 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-21 22:15:08
November 18 2015 02:26 GMT
#1
[image loading]

TvT: Early Game • Mid Game • Late Game        TvZ: Early Game • Mid Game • Late Game        TvP: Early Game • Mid Game • Late Game


[image loading]
  • Anyone is allowed to answer. Try to backup your statements with pro game examples whenever possible. However, if you assert something wildly wrong, especially without enough support, you will be warned/banned. If you are unsure of the validity of an idea, just ask a question instead.
  • In general this thread is here to help bridge the gap between proven pro level strategies/ideas and the average player, not for you to give your opinion (unless it has very sufficient grounding from pro game evidence).
  • Don't ask the same questions that are in the OP.


[image loading]


  • A full list of Terran changes can be found here



[image loading] Top


    Q: How do I identify and hold a proxy barracks rush?
    + Show Spoiler +
    Scout the main base just after you start your barracks. No gas = proxy 4 rax marine, gas = proxy 2 rax reaper. Bunker the ramp to your main if it's a gasless proxy, the marines will be at your natural before you can get the bunker up there. If it’s a reaper proxy, focus on keeping your units alive until your factory tech is done.




[image loading] Top


    Q: When does speed finish?
    + Show Spoiler +
    Hatch first: ~3:30


    Q: When does 2 base spire hit?
    + Show Spoiler +
    This can hit as early as 5:20, and an economically focused opening will hit at roughly 6:00. Be ready with turrets, marines, or liberators.


    Q: How do I hold a nydus worm?
    + Show Spoiler +
    Pray that you have enough DPS before the queens pop out.



[image loading] Top


    Q: Gas first?
    + Show Spoiler +
    Yes. More information to come soon(tm)


    Q: When does a proxy oracle hit?
    + Show Spoiler +
    Around 3:30. This means that you will want to start an ebay at 2:40 to have turrets up in time.
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8155 Posts
November 18 2015 02:26 GMT
#2
This is a big work in progress, feel free to add any information available!
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1328 Posts
November 18 2015 02:44 GMT
#3
IIRC 2 base spire can hit as early as 5:20 after hatch first with 6-8 mutas. I'd have to test this, not at a computer I can test from atm but this is the number I have in my head for whatever reason.

Thought the Nydus comment was cute :D I don't think killing it before the queens pop is possible assuming good control (i.e. queens loaded first and on a hotkey to immediately transfuse) from the Zerg player though. Any ideas on how to hold in terms of build / composition? I haven't had any success with any 3CC builds, moderate success with reactor rax marine / siege tank / reactor liberator going reaper fe -> 1/1/1.
In Somnis Veritas
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8155 Posts
November 18 2015 02:51 GMT
#4
I've only faced it once luckily, and lost pretty hard to it even with SCV pull + a handful of marines and some hellions trying to nuke it down.
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
PinheadXXXXXX
Profile Joined February 2012
United States897 Posts
November 18 2015 03:54 GMT
#5
You might want to add the standard medivac moveout timings in TvP and TvZ. I don't know them anymore specifically right now than some time from 6:00-7:30 for both matchups.
Taeja the one true Byunjwa~
Sif_
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil1830 Posts
November 18 2015 05:18 GMT
#6
Need an opener for TvP guys...one that doesnt straight up die to any gimmicky stuff protoss can throw at us!
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1345 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-18 10:37:53
November 18 2015 08:36 GMT
#7
Hi Jer, thanks for this thread ! A couple of suggestions:
  • Since the game is still very new, a nice addition could be the "most common compositions per matchup and how to play them out". For example, I'm still basically playing HotS in LotV right now. Haven't built a single cyclone and/or liberator so far and stuck to bio/mine (in TvZ/TvP) and marine/tank (in TvT) instead... because I don't know when/instead of what unit/with what units it synergizes/how to play the game out with liberators instead of mines for examples (parade push ? timing based pushes ? playing defensively and "campy" ? do I dare to go on creep, stay on the edge of it ? etc). Some kind of "how to transition from HotS to LotV" article could be super helpful to a lot of people IMHO (at least to me :D).
  • A list of all-ins/timings to be wary about for each matchup (i.e. 1base ling bane, 2 base roach/ravager, adept all-in, proxy 3 gate, etc).
  • The content of your previous thread regarding terran openings in LotV would also fit perfectly in here ;-)


That's all I can think about right now, I'll check the "HotS terran help me" thread to see what was there that would be good to have here again when I have the time !

Thanks again <3
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8155 Posts
November 18 2015 09:56 GMT
#8
I'm also working on a more thorough build article that will feature all three races, STAY STUNED
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1345 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-20 09:44:51
November 20 2015 09:35 GMT
#9
Alright, I'll start things off with the following questions related to scouting. I generally open rack-gaz at the same time to get a reaper early in all matchups. Right now, I'm having some trouble in TvZ against ravager pressure/all-in and in TvP against adept pressure/all-in. If I see it coming early enough, I generally do OK, but I really have trouble to scout it reliably. How and when to scout them ? What am I looking for with my reaper ?
- In TvZ: obviously, if I see an early roach warren and no 3rd/no efforts to drone up that 3rd, I know something's up. Does anyone have other tips, or more refined tips ? (amount of gas, timings, amount of queens,...)
- In TvP : I open 1-1-1 after my reaper, and get marines, mines and a medivac, unless I see a super quick robo and additionnal gates/chrono on WG, in which case I go viking first to zone out a potential WP, then medivac (and bunkers+wall at the front if possible). However, I have no clue about gas/timings to infer if he is indeed planning on an adept attack or just getting an early robo for... other purposes, in which case I really don't want to make the viking and delay my first drop. Any help ?

Just an observation: is it just me or are protoss players trying to go straight to templar (no robo units) more often in LotV ?

Edit: I'm playing at diamond level for anyone wondering (not sure if it's important)
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany13632 Posts
November 20 2015 12:31 GMT
#10
On November 18 2015 11:44 Pursuit_ wrote:
IIRC 2 base spire can hit as early as 5:20 after hatch first with 6-8 mutas. I'd have to test this, not at a computer I can test from atm but this is the number I have in my head for whatever reason.

Thought the Nydus comment was cute :D I don't think killing it before the queens pop is possible assuming good control (i.e. queens loaded first and on a hotkey to immediately transfuse) from the Zerg player though. Any ideas on how to hold in terms of build / composition? I haven't had any success with any 3CC builds, moderate success with reactor rax marine / siege tank / reactor liberator going reaper fe -> 1/1/1.

tank drop or liberator openings might have a chance but I haven't tried it yet.
Top 10: Maru, Inno, Zest, sOs, Life, Rogue, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany13632 Posts
November 20 2015 12:34 GMT
#11
Is the old 2 base 3 rax stim medivac timing not viable anymore? Every time I tried it the protoss already sit on 3 bases with pylon cannons and I couldn't do any damage. Then he just walked over me in the midgame despite me macroing perfectly.
If not then what should I open with in tvp?
Top 10: Maru, Inno, Zest, sOs, Life, Rogue, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
November 20 2015 14:31 GMT
#12
Hi!

In my games the nydus roach queen all in come at 5 min mark. Could you please tell me any opening viable that allow you to stop this? 1-1-1 with 2 tanks and one liberator is not enough even if you got one bunker with marines...
Kingqway
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States155 Posts
November 20 2015 14:33 GMT
#13
Hey thanks for setting up the thread! It's very strange that in HoTS TvT I was winning at least 60% of my matches but that has now dropped to less than 30%! I used win most matches by being a good positional player that won most engagements from siege tank creeping but I'm not sure if it's just people getting significantly better since hots or just the new medivacs, but the new pushes with tanks are getting very difficult and frustrating for me to defend.

how are you guys handling TvT? Particularly defending against drops and overall aggressive players? Is the main composition essentially MMM Tank? These days I lose a lot to players just waiting for me to move out even though I'll have a bigger army and then dropping in with a medivac that just punishes me too much for moving out. What are your 3rd base timings because usually my expanding ends up being too early it seems.
ddong
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1345 Posts
November 20 2015 14:49 GMT
#14
On November 20 2015 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:
Is the old 2 base 3 rax stim medivac timing not viable anymore? Every time I tried it the protoss already sit on 3 bases with pylon cannons and I couldn't do any damage. Then he just walked over me in the midgame despite me macroing perfectly.
If not then what should I open with in tvp?


I'm opening racks + gas for a quick reaper, then into 1-1-1 for a widow mine drop. And an expand somewhere in there. I generally delay my second and third gas so I can for a (relatively) quick 3rd CC in there if the protoss expanded (obivously, if he's on 1 base, I'm not building my 3rd).

From there on, I go with the standard HotS style with bio + mines, and drops, drops, drops... I haven't built a liberator yet, but I heard they're good, so I should look into that. However, with the new economy, protoss players generally spread themselves out more, so there's always an opening to be found somewhere with a drop. So far, it has worked pretty well for me (diamond league).

For the stim/medivac opening, maybe try some CS timing with marines before the medivac so you force some units/contest the 3rd ? Protoss players feel super safe with the new pylon cannon and play super greedy. I've had some success even pushing with only 5 marines, just to surprise them (got a few probe kills at the natural). Or else, go the "super greed" route by adding a quick 3rd and playing defensive until then. 3racks into stim/medivac feels to "middle of the road" nowadays, protoss have adapted and it doesn't really give you any edge...
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
November 20 2015 16:12 GMT
#15
In TvT around what time/infrastructure should I really start commiting to flying tanks? I played the same person twice yesterday and I opened pretty much 111 (reactor, tech, naked) then went up to 311 (tech/2reactor, tech, reactor) and he went pretty much pure bio medivac. I made sure a tank was in production at all times and stim was ready by the time his 2base drops starting occuring. However even with 5 flying tanks I was having issues holding his amount of bio he had. The biggest problem was I simply didn't have the bio count. I'd run to the main base to deal with a drop but then he'd push my third. I'd deal with the push at the third and the main drop would come back. It felt like I was possibly crippling myself by pushing my tank and medivac production too soon?
Wat
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
November 20 2015 16:14 GMT
#16
On November 20 2015 21:34 Charoisaur wrote:
Is the old 2 base 3 rax stim medivac timing not viable anymore? Every time I tried it the protoss already sit on 3 bases with pylon cannons and I couldn't do any damage. Then he just walked over me in the midgame despite me macroing perfectly.
If not then what should I open with in tvp?


I'm leaning towards CC first, 3 rax, double OC, 2 gas and teching up while taking my third. TvP is somewhat flipped where as Terrans we don't *have* to inflict early mid game damage. It is actually up to the Protoss to try and slow down our tech and amassing a critical number of Libs.
Wat
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4681 Posts
November 20 2015 20:34 GMT
#17
On November 20 2015 23:31 Dvriel wrote:
Hi!

In my games the nydus roach queen all in come at 5 min mark. Could you please tell me any opening viable that allow you to stop this? 1-1-1 with 2 tanks and one liberator is not enough even if you got one bunker with marines...


1-1-1 is safest! have reactored marines so u have more than 4 at least and pull scvs and surround it so they dont get out of liberator range along with your tanks for backup.
troi oi thang map nai!!!
Crazychris1311
Profile Joined March 2012
21 Posts
November 21 2015 19:13 GMT
#18
How in the hell do you stop a thor rush in TvT now? I get crushed by it in every single game
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
53852 Posts
November 21 2015 20:15 GMT
#19
On November 22 2015 04:13 Crazychris1311 wrote:
How in the hell do you stop a thor rush in TvT now? I get crushed by it in every single game

Flash played against a proxy thor in GPL. At 01:55:30 the game starts.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Skyblueone
Profile Joined June 2012
Belgium155 Posts
November 22 2015 08:52 GMT
#20
Q: When does a proxy oracle hit?
- Hide Spoiler -
Around 3:30. This means that you will want to start an ebay at 2:40 to have turrets up in time.


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