Anyone is allowed to answer. Try to backup your statements with pro game examples whenever possible. However, if you assert something wildly wrong, especially without enough support, you will be warned/banned. If you are unsure of the validity of an idea, just ask a question instead.
In general this thread is here to help bridge the gap between proven pro level strategies/ideas and the average player, not for you to give your opinion (unless it has very sufficient grounding from pro game evidence).
Q: How do I identify and hold a proxy barracks rush? + Show Spoiler +
Scout the main base just after you start your barracks. No gas = proxy 4 rax marine, gas = proxy 2 rax reaper. Bunker the ramp to your main if it's a gasless proxy, the marines will be at your natural before you can get the bunker up there. If it’s a reaper proxy, focus on keeping your units alive until your factory tech is done.
IIRC 2 base spire can hit as early as 5:20 after hatch first with 6-8 mutas. I'd have to test this, not at a computer I can test from atm but this is the number I have in my head for whatever reason.
Thought the Nydus comment was cute :D I don't think killing it before the queens pop is possible assuming good control (i.e. queens loaded first and on a hotkey to immediately transfuse) from the Zerg player though. Any ideas on how to hold in terms of build / composition? I haven't had any success with any 3CC builds, moderate success with reactor rax marine / siege tank / reactor liberator going reaper fe -> 1/1/1.
You might want to add the standard medivac moveout timings in TvP and TvZ. I don't know them anymore specifically right now than some time from 6:00-7:30 for both matchups.
Hi Jer, thanks for this thread ! A couple of suggestions:
Since the game is still very new, a nice addition could be the "most common compositions per matchup and how to play them out". For example, I'm still basically playing HotS in LotV right now. Haven't built a single cyclone and/or liberator so far and stuck to bio/mine (in TvZ/TvP) and marine/tank (in TvT) instead... because I don't know when/instead of what unit/with what units it synergizes/how to play the game out with liberators instead of mines for examples (parade push ? timing based pushes ? playing defensively and "campy" ? do I dare to go on creep, stay on the edge of it ? etc). Some kind of "how to transition from HotS to LotV" article could be super helpful to a lot of people IMHO (at least to me :D).
A list of all-ins/timings to be wary about for each matchup (i.e. 1base ling bane, 2 base roach/ravager, adept all-in, proxy 3 gate, etc).
The content of your previous thread regarding terran openings in LotV would also fit perfectly in here ;-)
That's all I can think about right now, I'll check the "HotS terran help me" thread to see what was there that would be good to have here again when I have the time !
Alright, I'll start things off with the following questions related to scouting. I generally open rack-gaz at the same time to get a reaper early in all matchups. Right now, I'm having some trouble in TvZ against ravager pressure/all-in and in TvP against adept pressure/all-in. If I see it coming early enough, I generally do OK, but I really have trouble to scout it reliably. How and when to scout them ? What am I looking for with my reaper ? - In TvZ: obviously, if I see an early roach warren and no 3rd/no efforts to drone up that 3rd, I know something's up. Does anyone have other tips, or more refined tips ? (amount of gas, timings, amount of queens,...) - In TvP : I open 1-1-1 after my reaper, and get marines, mines and a medivac, unless I see a super quick robo and additionnal gates/chrono on WG, in which case I go viking first to zone out a potential WP, then medivac (and bunkers+wall at the front if possible). However, I have no clue about gas/timings to infer if he is indeed planning on an adept attack or just getting an early robo for... other purposes, in which case I really don't want to make the viking and delay my first drop. Any help ?
Just an observation: is it just me or are protoss players trying to go straight to templar (no robo units) more often in LotV ?
Edit: I'm playing at diamond level for anyone wondering (not sure if it's important)
On November 18 2015 11:44 Pursuit_ wrote: IIRC 2 base spire can hit as early as 5:20 after hatch first with 6-8 mutas. I'd have to test this, not at a computer I can test from atm but this is the number I have in my head for whatever reason.
Thought the Nydus comment was cute :D I don't think killing it before the queens pop is possible assuming good control (i.e. queens loaded first and on a hotkey to immediately transfuse) from the Zerg player though. Any ideas on how to hold in terms of build / composition? I haven't had any success with any 3CC builds, moderate success with reactor rax marine / siege tank / reactor liberator going reaper fe -> 1/1/1.
tank drop or liberator openings might have a chance but I haven't tried it yet.
Is the old 2 base 3 rax stim medivac timing not viable anymore? Every time I tried it the protoss already sit on 3 bases with pylon cannons and I couldn't do any damage. Then he just walked over me in the midgame despite me macroing perfectly. If not then what should I open with in tvp?
In my games the nydus roach queen all in come at 5 min mark. Could you please tell me any opening viable that allow you to stop this? 1-1-1 with 2 tanks and one liberator is not enough even if you got one bunker with marines...
Hey thanks for setting up the thread! It's very strange that in HoTS TvT I was winning at least 60% of my matches but that has now dropped to less than 30%! I used win most matches by being a good positional player that won most engagements from siege tank creeping but I'm not sure if it's just people getting significantly better since hots or just the new medivacs, but the new pushes with tanks are getting very difficult and frustrating for me to defend.
how are you guys handling TvT? Particularly defending against drops and overall aggressive players? Is the main composition essentially MMM Tank? These days I lose a lot to players just waiting for me to move out even though I'll have a bigger army and then dropping in with a medivac that just punishes me too much for moving out. What are your 3rd base timings because usually my expanding ends up being too early it seems.
On November 20 2015 21:34 Charoisaur wrote: Is the old 2 base 3 rax stim medivac timing not viable anymore? Every time I tried it the protoss already sit on 3 bases with pylon cannons and I couldn't do any damage. Then he just walked over me in the midgame despite me macroing perfectly. If not then what should I open with in tvp?
I'm opening racks + gas for a quick reaper, then into 1-1-1 for a widow mine drop. And an expand somewhere in there. I generally delay my second and third gas so I can for a (relatively) quick 3rd CC in there if the protoss expanded (obivously, if he's on 1 base, I'm not building my 3rd).
From there on, I go with the standard HotS style with bio + mines, and drops, drops, drops... I haven't built a liberator yet, but I heard they're good, so I should look into that. However, with the new economy, protoss players generally spread themselves out more, so there's always an opening to be found somewhere with a drop. So far, it has worked pretty well for me (diamond league).
For the stim/medivac opening, maybe try some CS timing with marines before the medivac so you force some units/contest the 3rd ? Protoss players feel super safe with the new pylon cannon and play super greedy. I've had some success even pushing with only 5 marines, just to surprise them (got a few probe kills at the natural). Or else, go the "super greed" route by adding a quick 3rd and playing defensive until then. 3racks into stim/medivac feels to "middle of the road" nowadays, protoss have adapted and it doesn't really give you any edge...
In TvT around what time/infrastructure should I really start commiting to flying tanks? I played the same person twice yesterday and I opened pretty much 111 (reactor, tech, naked) then went up to 311 (tech/2reactor, tech, reactor) and he went pretty much pure bio medivac. I made sure a tank was in production at all times and stim was ready by the time his 2base drops starting occuring. However even with 5 flying tanks I was having issues holding his amount of bio he had. The biggest problem was I simply didn't have the bio count. I'd run to the main base to deal with a drop but then he'd push my third. I'd deal with the push at the third and the main drop would come back. It felt like I was possibly crippling myself by pushing my tank and medivac production too soon?
On November 20 2015 21:34 Charoisaur wrote: Is the old 2 base 3 rax stim medivac timing not viable anymore? Every time I tried it the protoss already sit on 3 bases with pylon cannons and I couldn't do any damage. Then he just walked over me in the midgame despite me macroing perfectly. If not then what should I open with in tvp?
I'm leaning towards CC first, 3 rax, double OC, 2 gas and teching up while taking my third. TvP is somewhat flipped where as Terrans we don't *have* to inflict early mid game damage. It is actually up to the Protoss to try and slow down our tech and amassing a critical number of Libs.
In my games the nydus roach queen all in come at 5 min mark. Could you please tell me any opening viable that allow you to stop this? 1-1-1 with 2 tanks and one liberator is not enough even if you got one bunker with marines...
1-1-1 is safest! have reactored marines so u have more than 4 at least and pull scvs and surround it so they dont get out of liberator range along with your tanks for backup.
EPT
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