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The LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 109

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
October 11 2019 05:55 GMT
#2161
Yo Elentos, thanks for taking the time to watch the replay and giving me tips. Sorry for taking a couple of days to get back at you ! <3
Also, sorry for the attitude in my previous post, I just get really frustrated against P...
I actually missed the supply block, both during my game and during my replay watching.

So in conclusion, my macro isn't at the level where I think it is (and I'm a bit too hot-headed in my engagements). Good, now I know what to work on. Thanks again !
Hvvacha
Profile Joined April 2018
82 Posts
October 11 2019 14:17 GMT
#2162
On October 09 2019 01:59 LoneYoShi wrote:
Hi terrans of TL, I'm looking for help regarding my TvP. Right now, I'm at ~35% while playing "standard macro bio", and this is a typical example of how most of my games go:
https://drop.sc/replay/11999229

To be honest, I don't know what to think of it and I'm looking for outside opinions.
    My analysis:
  • I open with a greedy 3rd CC before racks 2 & 3, which goes unpunished. My 2-mine drops kills somewhere between 5 and 10 probes. I lose the mines but not the medivac. The pressure he tries on my 3rd with pure gateway units gets deflected easily, and he loses a decent amount of zealots for no gain.
  • At this point, I'm up by 20-30 supply. SCV count is equal to his probe count (and I have mules). So I'm ahead in army, ahead in economy, and I don't think my tech is behind either (2nd starport with reactor, ghost academy building). The only aspect in which I am behind is upgrades.
  • I figure that I have the advantage, and try to push it by attacking his 3rd. My army gets walked over. We're now equal in supply. He crosses the map, takes a fight moments before his 3-3 finishes (so we're both 2-2 at this point), he walks through me. Game over.
  • I probably should have backed of the engagement by his 3rd seeing he had 2 collo and I had no vikings yet. My focus fire with the vikings was also lacking severely.
  • My 4th should have been up sooner. A standing PF instead of a building CC would have given me help in holding his attack.

Any tips, ideas, anything ?


https://drop.sc/replay/12027925 I have 80% tvp with this build. actually it might be 100% because I play so rarely that every tvp loss is entirely my fault, legit can't remember when I was outplayed using it.
Wrathsc2
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2025 Posts
October 18 2019 06:45 GMT
#2163
is there any good 1 or 2 base all ins that i can do vs toss? preferably proxy openings or 1 base all ins..top diamond
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
October 18 2019 19:22 GMT
#2164
On October 18 2019 15:45 Wrathsc2 wrote:
is there any good 1 or 2 base all ins that i can do vs toss? preferably proxy openings or 1 base all ins..top diamond

top dia low/master protoss and the one base i die to most often is proxy marauder. because you can hit fast and make it ambiguous whether it's proxy reaper, fake proxy etc, and because of concussive shells you can win a lot of games instantly if toss doesn't react well. most other proxies and silly one base builds i find pretty easy to react to

4 hellion opener with poke at the front into proxied starport for medivac drop into the main can also be a very fast game ender at this level
TL+ Member
Miket2424
Profile Joined May 2012
United States26 Posts
October 19 2019 10:00 GMT
#2165
I'm getting back to the game, and I'm in gold. I have a build prepared for zerg, taking my natural and going mech. However occasionally , the zerg will get pool before expansion, and have lings on me at 2:10-2:20 with maybe a single marine to defend.
My question is, when I see the pool that early, what is a good reponse. I tried cancelling the expansion and going into hellions , but they still take another 40 seconds to a minute to come out, by that time its 2 hellions vs. 20 lings.
I appreciate your input.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-19 21:04:25
October 19 2019 18:52 GMT
#2166
On October 19 2019 19:00 Miket2424 wrote:
I'm getting back to the game, and I'm in gold. I have a build prepared for zerg, taking my natural and going mech. However occasionally , the zerg will get pool before expansion, and have lings on me at 2:10-2:20 with maybe a single marine to defend.
My question is, when I see the pool that early, what is a good reponse. I tried cancelling the expansion and going into hellions , but they still take another 40 seconds to a minute to come out, by that time its 2 hellions vs. 20 lings.
I appreciate your input.

you can pull scvs to kill the initial lings w/your marine. as for the 20 speedling followup you are fine to float the CC to the high ground (or cancel and remake if you don't want to pull your SCVs) and wait for 4 hellions. making that many lings is a big commitment. you are probably mentally blocking yourself by thinking you're behind when you're not.

after the first 2-6 lings since you didn't open reaper you should send out another SCV or scan your opponent's natural to determine his followup. that way after defending the initial lings you can land the CC and start mining in case he is droning, and then just float back + wall up if you see more lings coming

if you open with an early SCV scout, which you should, when you see late hatchery indicating ling opener you can try to run the SCV toward zerg's third base area so you can keep it alive for the followup scout. if you see a drone trying to take the third base you know your opponent isn't committing to mass ling, otherwise suicide into his base to see what comes out of eggs + if you're lucky scout the main for fast lair which can indicate nydus, muta or speed roach allin

finally, since you are trying to play greedy with a marine opening you do have the option of just automatically going for high ground CC, which is totally immune to all these ling timings, and just accept a minor economy loss in macro games.
TL+ Member
Miket2424
Profile Joined May 2012
United States26 Posts
October 20 2019 10:56 GMT
#2167
finally, since you are trying to play greedy with a marine opening you do have the option of just automatically going for high ground CC, which is totally immune to all these ling timings, and just accept a minor economy loss in macro games.


Yes that seems like the simplest option, in gold league they try all kinds of crazy sheet, and a late lair may also just mean they forgot to build it.
Damien
Profile Joined January 2009
Brazil131 Posts
November 13 2019 00:09 GMT
#2168
How to deal with lings/blings/hydralisks as bio? Do I need to play mech? I'm bio. T_T
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-27 07:47:57
December 27 2019 07:40 GMT
#2169
Does any one have tips for dealing with Protoss who quickly tech to a Speed prism and disruptor. I always seem to lose chunks of my army to it if I ever try to attack so it feels like I just can’t if my opponent has the awareness to micro it well.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-27 15:47:09
December 27 2019 07:45 GMT
#2170
On November 13 2019 09:09 Damien wrote:
How to deal with lings/blings/hydralisks as bio? Do I need to play mech? I'm bio. T_T


If you see hydras a common response is to mix in tanks with your bio, hydras are expensive compared to just ling bane so if you see them usually there will be a window where you can push with a maxed out 2-2 bio tank army before they get to deep into hive tech. The tanks are great defensively and once you reach a critical mass they have to be countered with hive out of zerg, there comes a tipping point where ling bane hydra just can’t trade reasonably vs bio with tanks. It is very important that you push back creep if this is your game plan, tank pushes are much stronger when zerg does not have vision of your siege and unsiege Times.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
Sound1
Profile Joined August 2016
France93 Posts
April 20 2020 12:03 GMT
#2171
On September 20 2019 03:38 MockHamill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2019 23:31 -IAEVAI-KolosS wrote:
Hi all mech players out there,

What are you favorite unit compositions vs Carriers + Distruptors late game TvP ? I had decent success with Hellbat (low count - to tank damage), Vikings (High count - Target fire carriers), Tanks (Makes it harder for distruptors) and lots of mines but there must be another way.

Thanks for your tips.


In my experience if you let Protoss get a high Carrier count the game is already lost. I think a better solution is to
1) Damage the protoss economy as much as possible with mine or hellion drops.
2) Do a tank/hellbat/thor/mine push as soon as they start to transition to air, and try to end the game there.

In theory you can go BC but in practice Protoss just switches to tempest and kite you to death. Even if you teleport on top of the tempest you typically lose every BC in the process.

So killing as many probes as possible and do a kill-push before they can get their late game army is more reliable.



Hi everybody,

I use this conversation to ask you some tips against mass carriers strat.

I am about 3.5k terran with macro bio style. I play random on an other account just for fun.
My random is at 3k MMR so Gold 1-Plat3.
When I pick terran I have to win 90% of the time but I lost every single game vs toss going mass carriers AND 100 battery shields around his 2 bases.

To morrow I lost vs a 2.9k protoss, I cried like a little girl.
I know if the toss got more than 10 carriers it is done for me but how don't let him do that.
I tried early harass but battery shields deny all my attemtps
I tried late game full BC-Vikings (because always I stand on 5 or 6 bases and my opponent on 2 or 3)
Add some WM with drilling claws. Every time I lost the lone and final battle
I am unable to micro my units to focus fire the carriers

Someone can help me plz





Startale Sound Fan boy Forever !
Allred
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
April 20 2020 13:33 GMT
#2172
On April 20 2020 21:03 Sound1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2019 03:38 MockHamill wrote:
On September 19 2019 23:31 -IAEVAI-KolosS wrote:
Hi all mech players out there,

What are you favorite unit compositions vs Carriers + Distruptors late game TvP ? I had decent success with Hellbat (low count - to tank damage), Vikings (High count - Target fire carriers), Tanks (Makes it harder for distruptors) and lots of mines but there must be another way.

Thanks for your tips.


In my experience if you let Protoss get a high Carrier count the game is already lost. I think a better solution is to
1) Damage the protoss economy as much as possible with mine or hellion drops.
2) Do a tank/hellbat/thor/mine push as soon as they start to transition to air, and try to end the game there.

In theory you can go BC but in practice Protoss just switches to tempest and kite you to death. Even if you teleport on top of the tempest you typically lose every BC in the process.

So killing as many probes as possible and do a kill-push before they can get their late game army is more reliable.



Hi everybody,

I use this conversation to ask you some tips against mass carriers strat.

I am about 3.5k terran with macro bio style. I play random on an other account just for fun.
My random is at 3k MMR so Gold 1-Plat3.
When I pick terran I have to win 90% of the time but I lost every single game vs toss going mass carriers AND 100 battery shields around his 2 bases.

To morrow I lost vs a 2.9k protoss, I cried like a little girl.
I know if the toss got more than 10 carriers it is done for me but how don't let him do that.
I tried early harass but battery shields deny all my attemtps
I tried late game full BC-Vikings (because always I stand on 5 or 6 bases and my opponent on 2 or 3)
Add some WM with drilling claws. Every time I lost the lone and final battle
I am unable to micro my units to focus fire the carriers

Someone can help me plz







well if you have 5 or 6 bases and he has 2 or 3. You don't have to fight his army... when he moves out to attack be in position and go around. you should be able to kill his 3 bases faster than your 5 or 6. if he kills 1 of your bases and retreats, make sure you kill 1 of his as well...
An expert is a man who tells you a simple thing in a confused way in such a fashion as to make you think the confusion is your own fault. ~William Castle
jojamon
Profile Joined December 2012
133 Posts
April 20 2020 17:04 GMT
#2173
On April 20 2020 22:33 Allred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2020 21:03 Sound1 wrote:
On September 20 2019 03:38 MockHamill wrote:
On September 19 2019 23:31 -IAEVAI-KolosS wrote:
Hi all mech players out there,

What are you favorite unit compositions vs Carriers + Distruptors late game TvP ? I had decent success with Hellbat (low count - to tank damage), Vikings (High count - Target fire carriers), Tanks (Makes it harder for distruptors) and lots of mines but there must be another way.

Thanks for your tips.


In my experience if you let Protoss get a high Carrier count the game is already lost. I think a better solution is to
1) Damage the protoss economy as much as possible with mine or hellion drops.
2) Do a tank/hellbat/thor/mine push as soon as they start to transition to air, and try to end the game there.

In theory you can go BC but in practice Protoss just switches to tempest and kite you to death. Even if you teleport on top of the tempest you typically lose every BC in the process.

So killing as many probes as possible and do a kill-push before they can get their late game army is more reliable.



Hi everybody,

I use this conversation to ask you some tips against mass carriers strat.

I am about 3.5k terran with macro bio style. I play random on an other account just for fun.
My random is at 3k MMR so Gold 1-Plat3.
When I pick terran I have to win 90% of the time but I lost every single game vs toss going mass carriers AND 100 battery shields around his 2 bases.

To morrow I lost vs a 2.9k protoss, I cried like a little girl.
I know if the toss got more than 10 carriers it is done for me but how don't let him do that.
I tried early harass but battery shields deny all my attemtps
I tried late game full BC-Vikings (because always I stand on 5 or 6 bases and my opponent on 2 or 3)
Add some WM with drilling claws. Every time I lost the lone and final battle
I am unable to micro my units to focus fire the carriers

Someone can help me plz







well if you have 5 or 6 bases and he has 2 or 3. You don't have to fight his army... when he moves out to attack be in position and go around. you should be able to kill his 3 bases faster than your 5 or 6. if he kills 1 of your bases and retreats, make sure you kill 1 of his as well...


Yes, outexpand any race turtling, get your production buildings up.
Since he spent so much minerals on shield batteries, you could make a lot of CCs and start muling.
Thors wreck carriers in their heavy cannon anti-air mode, carriers are easy to click on too.
Thors + Vikings should absolutely destroy a mass carrier build. if they go into ground, your vikings can land and vikings do quite well against any gateway units too.
Sound1
Profile Joined August 2016
France93 Posts
April 20 2020 20:19 GMT
#2174
Thanks for those advices

Yeah, at 3K MMR guys just turtle like mad man and go to T3 units. Im going crazy cause on my side, I expand as fast as I can, my macro still decent but at the end I lost.
I will try your advices, maybe more harass with BC, kill his bases and make 200 turrets to defend mines, and I will try Thor.
I never ever made a single Thor in TvP. I will give it a chance.
Startale Sound Fan boy Forever !
XDEKSDEEXD
Profile Joined June 2013
622 Posts
April 26 2020 12:33 GMT
#2175
Trying to get back - can someone advise me of the standard builds for each race? Not sure why but the links in the first page do not work anymore
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
April 28 2020 14:45 GMT
#2176
On April 26 2020 21:33 5ecured wrote:
Trying to get back - can someone advise me of the standard builds for each race? Not sure why but the links in the first page do not work anymore


Hey man,

Personnally, my go-to builds are:
  • TvZ : I go 2-1-1, 16 marines drop. It starts with a standard reaper expand, then add a second rax after the expand, build a reactor on the first rax, techlab on the second one. Get a second gaz after the second rax, start a factory asap, then stim. Reactor on the factory while the starport builds. Normally stim and 2 medivacs should line up around the time you have 16 marines. Go to contest the 4th/pressure the 3rd. From there on, add a 3rd CC, 2 Ebays and take your nat's gas. Add barracks, get mines from the factory and have fun with bio mine !
  • TvT : I go gas first, barracks (build reaper), then second gaz. Factory asap. I pull SCVs out of gaz when the factory is started. Get 3 reapers and 2 helions, and take map control while expanding and putting SCVs back to gaz. From there, I add a techlab on factory to build a tank, reactor on the racks to get marines, and a starport with a tech lab to get a raven. From then on, I go for a 3rd CC, 2 Ebays, more barracks and play it out with marine - tank.
  • TvP : I go barracks - gaz, but build a marine and no reaper. Expand when you can. After the first marine, I get a techlab, start concussive and get 2 marauders asap. When concussive finishes, I push with those 3 units (2 marauders, 1 marine), sometimes with a SCV to try to get a bunker up. The objective is to force units out, scout their tech (immortals, phoenixes or only gate units) and get a few probes. Meanwhile at home I start stim, add 1 Ebay, 2 more racks and start to tech to factory/startport. Get 2 reactors one the additionnal raxes. You should have a ton of marines when stim finishes, so you can go for a second push at that time, while you get a 3rd. Then add more racks and go for a "normal" game.


Sidenotes: I think those builds are quite outdated, but I'm doing OK with them at ~4.3k MMR level. As you probably understood, I'm quite fond of bio play.
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
June 30 2020 17:56 GMT
#2177
Can someone reccommend me a good cheese in TvP? I've been doing lots of proxy 3 rax marine and proxy 2 rax marauder but I'm now noticing a trend where these cheeses don't really work that well anymore at people 4500+ unless I micro like a god.

Is for example bc rush somewhat viable or proxy cloak banshee or what are the big boys doing atm? Only cheese I can remember seeing in TvP from GSL is proxy marauder which I already want to move away from...

Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-30 20:39:28
June 30 2020 20:31 GMT
#2178
On July 01 2020 02:56 Jan1997 wrote:
Can someone reccommend me a good cheese in TvP? I've been doing lots of proxy 3 rax marine and proxy 2 rax marauder but I'm now noticing a trend where these cheeses don't really work that well anymore at people 4500+ unless I micro like a god.

Is for example bc rush somewhat viable or proxy cloak banshee or what are the big boys doing atm? Only cheese I can remember seeing in TvP from GSL is proxy marauder which I already want to move away from...



Although proxy’s can still work if you really catch toss off guard battery overcharge is extremely strong vs frontal attacks early game when unit numbers are low, unless they play greedy, don’t scout, and don’t counter correctly I don’t think proxy marauder is good any more, I used to abuse the build a lot last season but see little to no success with it any more even with the more Allin 2 rax on their side of the map version. I think for cheesy/risky builds the best bet are builds where you cut your defense/delay 2 base push to have a big chance of doing economic damage for instance if you go 4 hellion drop you can wreck an unprepared toss’s income right before thier 4 gate blink comes online. Playing this way can get you a lot of free wins But it makes you vulnerable to allins. You end up being pretty dependent on dealing a ton of dmg because you don’t have enough to hold the blink counter attack otherwise.

Honestly with the new battery and the blink meta I think it’s better to try to play extremely straight up vs toss right now. I have become a fan of Clem’s opening where he gets 2 reapers and a hellion and uses them either to pressure or defend doing this lets him cut a bunker and go into slightly faster 3 rax this in turn lets you hold off 4 gate blink and from their you can take a third if they go 2 base tech or fight at their third if they expo.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
Light1082
Profile Joined May 2020
18 Posts
September 04 2020 05:25 GMT
#2179
GM Terran and I'm still 0% winrate against proxy Void Ray builds. Does anyone have the answer for me?
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55553 Posts
September 04 2020 14:01 GMT
#2180
On September 04 2020 14:25 Light1082 wrote:
GM Terran and I'm still 0% winrate against proxy Void Ray builds. Does anyone have the answer for me?

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