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On July 14 2019 18:03 rfoster wrote:
I'm looking for the most standard builds in each matchup right now that I can drill into my brain every game while I get my macro right.
Does anyone have a good recommendation for a resource that provides replays? I'm coming back to the scene after a while and would love some replays to iron out my builds.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1iOqyGpKaGpiwY2NL2I1hQ
pro replays are hard to come by, but here's the next best thing (maybe better because you get to see mouse movements, etc)
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Has something happened to the meta?
I usually do macro builds but I'm not kidding i have faced like 30 allins in a row. I've never had such a long losing streak and i've been playing starcraft for over a decade.
I know this is kind of QQ post so sorry about that but is anyone else noticing they face 100% allins at the moment in plat/gold?
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Hasn't plat/gold always been like that?
The only thing separating you from dia players is the ability to hold off those allins. And I'm not joking, there's much less skill difference in gold/plat/dia combined than there is in masters alone.
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^ you think a gold player and a diamond player are even in macro ability? hmmm idk kev
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Blazinghand
United States24973 Posts
When I worked my way up through Gold and Plat last month, I would say that I got all-inned a very large amount of the time by Zerg and Terran, and Protoss would often do some kind of tech rush that could transition into real play. Still plenty of all-ins in Diamond, too. Being able to hold the all-in isn't just about scouting and micro and defenses, but it's also about macroing appropriately while doing so. If you do a fast expand in TvT, and your opponent does a proxy 2 rax reaper, you can't just hold the proxy 2 rax reaper, you also need to not get supply blocked, keep building SCVs, make units, and work your way up the tech tree - both to successfully hold the rush, and to make it so that afterwards, if your opponent expanded behind the Rush (which he often will), you are still in a position of advantage.
Even now, all-ins seem less common than 7 years ago, though. Maps are too large for a lot of them.
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On August 27 2019 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:
When I worked my way up through Gold and Plat last month, I would say that I got all-inned a very large amount of the time by Zerg and Terran, and Protoss would often do some kind of tech rush that could transition into real play. Still plenty of all-ins in Diamond, too. Being able to hold the all-in isn't just about scouting and micro and defenses, but it's also about macroing appropriately while doing so. If you do a fast expand in TvT, and your opponent does a proxy 2 rax reaper, you can't just hold the proxy 2 rax reaper, you also need to not get supply blocked, keep building SCVs, make units, and work your way up the tech tree - both to successfully hold the rush, and to make it so that afterwards, if your opponent expanded behind the Rush (which he often will), you are still in a position of advantage.
Even now, all-ins seem less common than 7 years ago, though. Maps are too large for a lot of them.
That's what I thought. I've been playing again for a few months and I've had plenty of macro games. I don't know if maybe its people figuring out fast timings after the new patch maybe but something's weird. Its just one after another. Maybe I need a break from the game.
My build is actually pretty defensive and I was plat a month ago but I'm gold 2 now after my mad losing streak. Maybe I'm tilting also which isn't helping (for me tilting can go on for weeks haha) so I tend to leave the game quick if I'm in trouble.
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I’ve been playing sc2 for several years, always having mained Terran. Should I feel silly only today having realized you don’t need an engineering bay to make an armory? For some reason I always thought the ebay was required. Apparently you only need a factory, lol
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Blazinghand
United States24973 Posts
On August 27 2019 09:10 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2019 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:
When I worked my way up through Gold and Plat last month, I would say that I got all-inned a very large amount of the time by Zerg and Terran, and Protoss would often do some kind of tech rush that could transition into real play. Still plenty of all-ins in Diamond, too. Being able to hold the all-in isn't just about scouting and micro and defenses, but it's also about macroing appropriately while doing so. If you do a fast expand in TvT, and your opponent does a proxy 2 rax reaper, you can't just hold the proxy 2 rax reaper, you also need to not get supply blocked, keep building SCVs, make units, and work your way up the tech tree - both to successfully hold the rush, and to make it so that afterwards, if your opponent expanded behind the Rush (which he often will), you are still in a position of advantage.
Even now, all-ins seem less common than 7 years ago, though. Maps are too large for a lot of them. That's what I thought. I've been playing again for a few months and I've had plenty of macro games. I don't know if maybe its people figuring out fast timings after the new patch maybe but something's weird. Its just one after another. Maybe I need a break from the game. My build is actually pretty defensive and I was plat a month ago but I'm gold 2 now after my mad losing streak. Maybe I'm tilting also which isn't helping (for me tilting can go on for weeks haha) so I tend to leave the game quick if I'm in trouble.
What matchup are you facing all-ins in the most, and what sort of all-in? I see them a lot in TvT, but I think a lot of Terran players just want to avoid getting into the marine-tank-viking-drops-etc long game
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4.5k terran here.
1) What is your go to TvP economic build?
2) What is your heavy pressure TvP build?
I didnt play for 3 months and I dont know which builds to use right now (new stim timings? Just use the old builds? I'm feel kinda lost)
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On August 27 2019 15:23 bretfart wrote:
4.5k terran here.
1) What is your go to TvP economic build?
2) What is your heavy pressure TvP build?
I didnt play for 3 months and I dont know which builds to use right now (new stim timings? Just use the old builds? I'm feel kinda lost)
Hey I play mech at 4.5k
My tvp build for pressure is gas first into barracks, get 1 marine, skip the reaper, reactor hellions into hellion drop, follow it up with a banshee, research cloak while making the medevac, dont exactly know the timings on my second gas, just get it as soon as you can afford it after your expansion.
After you send the banshee out go up to 3 factory's you need the tanks in case they yolo attack you. I actually usually get 2 banshees so I keep the tech lab on the starport for a bit longer but it's a pretty fine balance.
I know that's a pretty bad explanation of the build but I just got it memorized in game it's hard to write it down, you might have to do a few custom games to get it.
Make sure you dont lose the hellions or banshee you need them just pressure get what you can, you lose to counter attacks if you cant counter poke with them.
The build is weak against proxy starport I have been thinking of getting one widowmine and moving out with only 3 hellions but you can tweak it the way you feel works best.
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On August 28 2019 00:50 Conut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2019 15:23 bretfart wrote:
4.5k terran here.
1) What is your go to TvP economic build?
2) What is your heavy pressure TvP build?
I didnt play for 3 months and I dont know which builds to use right now (new stim timings? Just use the old builds? I'm feel kinda lost) Hey I play mech at 4.5k My tvp build for pressure is gas first into barracks, get 1 marine, skip the reaper, reactor hellions into hellion drop, follow it up with a banshee, research cloak while making the medevac, dont exactly know the timings on my second gas, just get it as soon as you can afford it after your expansion. After you send the banshee out go up to 3 factory's you need the tanks in case they yolo attack you. I actually usually get 2 banshees so I keep the tech lab on the starport for a bit longer but it's a pretty fine balance. I know that's a pretty bad explanation of the build but I just got it memorized in game it's hard to write it down, you might have to do a few custom games to get it. Make sure you dont lose the hellions or banshee you need them just pressure get what you can, you lose to counter attacks if you cant counter poke with them. The build is weak against proxy starport I have been thinking of getting one widowmine and moving out with only 3 hellions but you can tweak it the way you feel works best.
I imagine you could go barracks and bio after this but this is my mech opening, I win alot when I do this build, almost rely 2 heavily on it haha
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Is there a guide on the internet on how to pick up into medivacs quickly like a pro player? Do they have all their units selected and click them into the medivacs or box select the units right underneath etc... ? Thanks!
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On August 29 2019 08:23 rfoster wrote:
Is there a guide on the internet on how to pick up into medivacs quickly like a pro player? Do they have all their units selected and click them into the medivacs or box select the units right underneath etc... ? Thanks!
- Select the medivacs
- Move command in the direction of the marines
- Select the marines
- Hold shift and right click each medivac
- Select the medivacs again to go over the marines that can't get in
You can go into unit test map to practice each step without pressure.
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On August 29 2019 20:13 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2019 08:23 rfoster wrote:
Is there a guide on the internet on how to pick up into medivacs quickly like a pro player? Do they have all their units selected and click them into the medivacs or box select the units right underneath etc... ? Thanks! - Select the medivacs - Move command in the direction of the marines - Select the marines - Hold shift and right click each medivac - Select the medivacs again to go over the marines that can't get in You can go into unit test map to practice each step without pressure.
The technique you described is the one I use most often, however there's another that also works well:
- Select the marines and the medivacs
- Hold shift and right click each medivac
The medivacs will move towards the marines, and the marines will load. You have a little less control of the direction and "how" everything unfolds though, which is why I mostly stick with what you described (especially in "hot pickup" situation).
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Yo! I'm mid dia terran player and I feel kind of helpless against proxy tempest rushes. I usually go reaper 2-1-1 opening into stim timing with two medivacs and marines. I would like some advice about what to do when I'm facing that horrendous shield battery tempest crap, it usually just destroys me with their range. Marines are useless, vikings gets kited and I don't like cyclones (is that the only answer?  ). Last time I tried to counter attack and make it a base trade but I realized the tempest always win that anyway. What should I do if I manage to scout it in time?
Edit: Wrote my build just to communicate where I am build wise, usually have the second rax building when I scout it. Obviously I don't keep on my build path after scouting it
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On September 16 2019 19:49 Shuffleblade wrote:Yo! I'm mid dia terran player and I feel kind of helpless against proxy tempest rushes. I usually go reaper 2-1-1 opening into stim timing with two medivacs and marines. I would like some advice about what to do when I'm facing that horrendous shield battery tempest crap, it usually just destroys me with their range. Marines are useless, vikings gets kited and I don't like cyclones (is that the only answer? ). Last time I tried to counter attack and make it a base trade but I realized the tempest always win that anyway. What should I do if I manage to scout it in time? Edit: Wrote my build just to communicate where I am build wise, usually have the second rax building when I scout it. Obviously I don't keep on my build path after scouting it
You need to do the following to beat it.
1. Scout it as early as possible.
2. Reactor vikings.
3. Stall with turrets so that he can not pick off your vikings with superior range.
4. Make marines and a single tank for added protection.
5. Once you have enough vikings to 1-shot the Tempest kill his army, then go and kill him.
I never got cyclones to work vs this, getting a tank too early is also a mistake in my opinion. The key is getting as many vikings as possible, as fast as possible.
If you get a low ground bunker right after your rax it is even better, then you can prevent him from having shield batteries at your natural, can get more gas since you are on 2 bases, and have 2 starports for even faster viking production.
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On September 16 2019 20:09 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2019 19:49 Shuffleblade wrote:Yo! I'm mid dia terran player and I feel kind of helpless against proxy tempest rushes. I usually go reaper 2-1-1 opening into stim timing with two medivacs and marines. I would like some advice about what to do when I'm facing that horrendous shield battery tempest crap, it usually just destroys me with their range. Marines are useless, vikings gets kited and I don't like cyclones (is that the only answer? ). Last time I tried to counter attack and make it a base trade but I realized the tempest always win that anyway. What should I do if I manage to scout it in time? Edit: Wrote my build just to communicate where I am build wise, usually have the second rax building when I scout it. Obviously I don't keep on my build path after scouting it You need to do the following to beat it. 1. Scout it as early as possible. 2. Reactor vikings. 3. Stall with turrets so that he can not pick off your vikings with superior range. 4. Make marines and a single tank for added protection. 5. Once you have enough vikings to 1-shot the Tempest kill his army, then go and kill him. I never got cyclones to work vs this, getting a tank too early is also a mistake in my opinion. The key is getting as many vikings as possible, as fast as possible. If you get a low ground bunker right after your rax it is even better, then you can prevent him from having shield batteries at your natural, can get more gas since you are on 2 bases, and have 2 starports for even faster viking production.
Thank you so much for the reply, very detailed info too! Will try to beat it this way next time =D
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On September 16 2019 20:09 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2019 19:49 Shuffleblade wrote:Yo! I'm mid dia terran player and I feel kind of helpless against proxy tempest rushes. I usually go reaper 2-1-1 opening into stim timing with two medivacs and marines. I would like some advice about what to do when I'm facing that horrendous shield battery tempest crap, it usually just destroys me with their range. Marines are useless, vikings gets kited and I don't like cyclones (is that the only answer? ). Last time I tried to counter attack and make it a base trade but I realized the tempest always win that anyway. What should I do if I manage to scout it in time? Edit: Wrote my build just to communicate where I am build wise, usually have the second rax building when I scout it. Obviously I don't keep on my build path after scouting it You need to do the following to beat it. 1. Scout it as early as possible. 2. Reactor vikings. 3. Stall with turrets so that he can not pick off your vikings with superior range. 4. Make marines and a single tank for added protection. 5. Once you have enough vikings to 1-shot the Tempest kill his army, then go and kill him. I never got cyclones to work vs this, getting a tank too early is also a mistake in my opinion. The key is getting as many vikings as possible, as fast as possible. If you get a low ground bunker right after your rax it is even better, then you can prevent him from having shield batteries at your natural, can get more gas since you are on 2 bases, and have 2 starports for even faster viking production.
I just go 1-1-1 into 3-1-1 and make 4x marine 1x mine (then 1x cyclone) and reactor Viking - and then I try to go for stim +1 and cs together cause once you have stim and a bunch of marines and Vikings it is really easy to just out DPS the shield battery. - Also not to be that guy but I strongly recommend you learn a different build for TvP. The 2-1-1 is neat and fun but its actually a really bad build for numerous reasons (especially in TvP) mostly being that it is too slow, cuts too much eco and marine only isn't that great vs toss. I find 1-1-1 to not only be the most versatile but also the most consistent as it can reliably go into anything.
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On September 16 2019 22:17 Ryu3600 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2019 20:09 MockHamill wrote:On September 16 2019 19:49 Shuffleblade wrote:Yo! I'm mid dia terran player and I feel kind of helpless against proxy tempest rushes. I usually go reaper 2-1-1 opening into stim timing with two medivacs and marines. I would like some advice about what to do when I'm facing that horrendous shield battery tempest crap, it usually just destroys me with their range. Marines are useless, vikings gets kited and I don't like cyclones (is that the only answer? ). Last time I tried to counter attack and make it a base trade but I realized the tempest always win that anyway. What should I do if I manage to scout it in time? Edit: Wrote my build just to communicate where I am build wise, usually have the second rax building when I scout it. Obviously I don't keep on my build path after scouting it You need to do the following to beat it. 1. Scout it as early as possible. 2. Reactor vikings. 3. Stall with turrets so that he can not pick off your vikings with superior range. 4. Make marines and a single tank for added protection. 5. Once you have enough vikings to 1-shot the Tempest kill his army, then go and kill him. I never got cyclones to work vs this, getting a tank too early is also a mistake in my opinion. The key is getting as many vikings as possible, as fast as possible. If you get a low ground bunker right after your rax it is even better, then you can prevent him from having shield batteries at your natural, can get more gas since you are on 2 bases, and have 2 starports for even faster viking production. I just go 1-1-1 into 3-1-1 and make 4x marine 1x mine (then 1x cyclone) and reactor Viking - and then I try to go for stim +1 and cs together cause once you have stim and a bunch of marines and Vikings it is really easy to just out DPS the shield battery. - Also not to be that guy but I strongly recommend you learn a different build for TvP. The 2-1-1 is neat and fun but its actually a really bad build for numerous reasons (especially in TvP) mostly being that it is too slow, cuts too much eco and marine only isn't that great vs toss. I find 1-1-1 to not only be the most versatile but also the most consistent as it can reliably go into anything.
Thank you for the advice, sounds like a killer army.
Regarding my build I actually think it is the best choice for me to improve, I have played maybe 30 games since july and before that I've been on hiatus for over a year. I want to play that style in TvZ, it is when I have the most fun in the game and for me to split my focus on too many openings when I'm still not used to play the game is not good. Doing similar builds over and over really helps me improve bit by bit, both the build but also micro/macro management.
To be frank I'm only in dia and here it is more important to be comfortable with what you do and get decent at micro/macro than playing the meta. I suck in TvP (no matter my opening), I hate the matchup and this is pretty much the only time I have fun in the matchup. I rather lose with this build and have fun than play the meta and win (probably wouldn't win either way tough xD) and not have fun.
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WCS
