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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
I've got something to add here: It's possible to block the nydus using engineering bays. It's already being done by pro players, if you enclose it completely no units can pop. Will try to show later but I'm a bit busy atm. If you can't engi block, pull scvs and surround the nydus pre-emptively so the dps from the scvs can help take it down asap. Q: Gas first? This is actually quite viable on maps like Ulrena. | ||
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okto
United States20 Posts
On November 18 2015 14:18 Sif_ wrote: Need an opener for TvP guys...one that doesnt straight up die to any gimmicky stuff protoss can throw at us! I am opening 3 rax no gas no add-ons until expo. The mass marines can stop any normal early pressure and cheese. If you're opponent isn't ready you can cream them. If they are ready you can walk home with a large army and begin powering econ. With how violent the early game is I don't feel confident opening 1 rax expo anymore in this matchup. There's also 1/1/1 mine drops, but I feel that's a bit coin-flippy. I will say though that the transition into normal bio play is somewhat ineffective for me right now (I'm in diamond). I feel like I need to add liberators possibly because most protoss at my level are fairly good at stopping drops (cause pylons). And if their econ gets out of control splitting vs disruptors is a pain. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
can mines one shot an oracle? | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On November 23 2015 08:41 Golgotha wrote: how to stop oracles? Do I have to get engi bay and then turrets? turrets feel a bit shit since oracle can just out maneuver. how many marines do I need to engage oracle and kill? can mines one shot an oracle? Without combat shields 6 marines beat an oracle if the oracle doesn't retreat (which it generally should). A mine kills an oracle in 1 shot, yes. Engi bay plus turrets is the most common response though. | ||
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DrDevice
Canada132 Posts
On November 23 2015 08:41 Golgotha wrote: If it winds up anything like hots it probably depends on build and stargate timing with the answer being "sometimes," but I really don't know yet. I know what you mean that they feel bad when outmaneuveredhow to stop oracles? Do I have to get engi bay and then turrets? turrets feel a bit shit since oracle can just out maneuver. how many marines do I need to engage oracle and kill? 6can mines one shot an oracle? Yes | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
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adwodon
United Kingdom592 Posts
I started dicking around with it this morning and absolutely trashed people, despite fairly poor execution myself, slightly late barracks, no real build plan, losing an early reaper to a bad rally etc It has me slightly scared now to go back to regular play as I'm sort of scratching my head as to how to hold it off with a general build, CC first now just seems like its auto-loose vs this? You definitely need to scout, can you get away without a bunker or should you get one at ramp & near mineral line? Should I just try to get a cyclone up immediately or a tank? Hellion marine seems like absolute garbage against 5-6 reapers if you make a single mistake and get hit with grenades. I'm sure its perfectly possible to hold it off, but I'm just not sure how to best incorporate it into standard play, especially as a few people are going CC first lately so I don't want to handicap myself out of fear especially as I've not really encountered this build being used against me on ladder. | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On November 23 2015 22:39 adwodon wrote: Does anyone have any good (Dia+) replays of holding off proxy 2 / 3 rax reaper in TvT? I started dicking around with it this morning and absolutely trashed people, despite fairly poor execution myself, slightly late barracks, no real build plan, losing an early reaper to a bad rally etc It has me slightly scared now to go back to regular play as I'm sort of scratching my head as to how to hold it off with a general build, CC first now just seems like its auto-loose vs this? You definitely need to scout, can you get away without a bunker or should you get one at ramp & near mineral line? Should I just try to get a cyclone up immediately or a tank? Hellion marine seems like absolute garbage against 5-6 reapers if you make a single mistake and get hit with grenades. I'm sure its perfectly possible to hold it off, but I'm just not sure how to best incorporate it into standard play, especially as a few people are going CC first lately so I don't want to handicap myself out of fear especially as I've not really encountered this build being used against me on ladder. CC first have always been countered by proxy rax. I haven't faced or done this build myself so I can't tell how much the grenades do in this case but marine hellion should counter this. As long as you scout you should be able to react to it unless you go CC first or gasless expand. | ||
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BiiG-Fr
Canada109 Posts
On November 23 2015 22:39 adwodon wrote: Does anyone have any good (Dia+) replays of holding off proxy 2 / 3 rax reaper in TvT? I started dicking around with it this morning and absolutely trashed people, despite fairly poor execution myself, slightly late barracks, no real build plan, losing an early reaper to a bad rally etc It has me slightly scared now to go back to regular play as I'm sort of scratching my head as to how to hold it off with a general build, CC first now just seems like its auto-loose vs this? You definitely need to scout, can you get away without a bunker or should you get one at ramp & near mineral line? Should I just try to get a cyclone up immediately or a tank? Hellion marine seems like absolute garbage against 5-6 reapers if you make a single mistake and get hit with grenades. I'm sure its perfectly possible to hold it off, but I'm just not sure how to best incorporate it into standard play, especially as a few people are going CC first lately so I don't want to handicap myself out of fear especially as I've not really encountered this build being used against me on ladder. Gaz first, rax, facto + 2nd gaz then tech lab and tank is a good counter | ||
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Poopfeast
160 Posts
Could anyone explain the meta to me and common tech paths? I can reimburse you for this. Hope this is allowed in this thread | ||
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Guillermoman
24 Posts
On November 23 2015 22:39 adwodon wrote: Does anyone have any good (Dia+) replays of holding off proxy 2 / 3 rax reaper in TvT? I started dicking around with it this morning and absolutely trashed people, despite fairly poor execution myself, slightly late barracks, no real build plan, losing an early reaper to a bad rally etc It has me slightly scared now to go back to regular play as I'm sort of scratching my head as to how to hold it off with a general build, CC first now just seems like its auto-loose vs this? You definitely need to scout, can you get away without a bunker or should you get one at ramp & near mineral line? Should I just try to get a cyclone up immediately or a tank? Hellion marine seems like absolute garbage against 5-6 reapers if you make a single mistake and get hit with grenades. I'm sure its perfectly possible to hold it off, but I'm just not sure how to best incorporate it into standard play, especially as a few people are going CC first lately so I don't want to handicap myself out of fear especially as I've not really encountered this build being used against me on ladder. The safest response is to go direct to Cyclone, as having even one can hold off several Reapers. Liquid Bunny has shown a defensive opening where he starts with 2 Cyclones, and it is really safe against not only proxy 3 rax but also any Banshee or drop openings (as long as you lock on correctly). However, opening just one is a lot more common and is not too much of a deviation from most builds. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On November 24 2015 01:15 Guillermoman wrote: The safest response is to go direct to Cyclone, as having even one can hold off several Reapers. Liquid Bunny has shown a defensive opening where he starts with 2 Cyclones, and it is really safe against not only proxy 3 rax but also any Banshee or drop openings (as long as you lock on correctly). However, opening just one is a lot more common and is not too much of a deviation from most builds. I go gas first in TvT and faced a proxy 2 rack reaper yesterday. Managed to hold it with marine+helion, despite my terrible micro (but thankfully, his wasn't great either). I had to sac a few SCVs to gain time at the beginning, but I held. I'm diamond. Sorry I'm at work right now, can't post my replay. | ||
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DeinoforoFr
3 Posts
I am currently loosing a lot against 4 gates adpets warp prism in TvP ( well not really loosing the game but way too many scv which is the same). I really wonder which build should I use if i scout an early robo and btw how do you scout a Protoss in early with new overcharge Thx a lot for your help guys you are awesome ! | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On November 24 2015 01:55 DeinoforoFr wrote: Hi, I am currently loosing a lot against 4 gates adpets warp prism in TvP ( well not really loosing the game but way too many scv which is the same). I really wonder which build should I use if i scout an early robo and btw how do you scout a Protoss in early with new overcharge Thx a lot for your help guys you are awesome ! In my experience, more often than not Protoss is attacking in TvP relatively early. Because of how often Adepts are used, and the danger in getting surprised by an Oracle ("late" oracles seem more common in LotV). For these reasons, we are opening with Marines, because you need the DPS to fight the Adepts. On large maps we'll CC first into triple barracks (work towards tech lab/tech lab/reactor), and then tech (to medivacs). Use factory to build add-ons. Don't even bother moving out until Stim and medivacs finish. On smaller maps, we will expand behind two rax. At least for now, in our meta, a robo = warp prism attack. Widow Mines drops are slightly less useful because of how popular robo openers are, atm. You need units to hold the WP attack, and with how early it can hit, you might just "not have enough stuff" if you tech'd too early, or greedily. You could get lucky with defensive widow mines. But, literally, it's hit or miss. Tough match-up right now, because of how badly it can snowball for either side. If you're playing 1v1, the Terran basically defends until medivacs. Then you can expand (to third) while dropping. Consider a full-scale attack to prevent a 4th Protoss base, or to kill their third, when you have liberators (but you probably won't have range yet). Aim for a 3-base economy with about 9-10 rax (all tech lab with one reactor), and at least one reactor Starport (while building 4th base we like to get a second Starport with a techlab and a fusion core for liberator range and banshee speed). If you get into a protracted game of posturing, don't forget to keep expanding! | ||
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DeinoforoFr
3 Posts
I often have troubles to know when to build add-ons on this kind of oppening and when to build gas/ tech. Thanks again you already helped me a lot ! | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On November 24 2015 04:07 DeinoforoFr wrote: Thanks a lot for your advices I would just like to know more precisely what build do you use on "samller maps" I often have troubles to know when to build add-ons on this kind of oppening and when to build gas/ tech. Thanks again you already helped me a lot ! The build orders aren't tight yet, and we're hardly role models: Diamond Archon Team. But, crazy story, last night we got matched up versus the Archon Team: TTone and Kiwikaki. We totally choked, played a super shitty build, and got lol'd out of the game : / | ||
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DeinoforoFr
3 Posts
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okto
United States20 Posts
On November 23 2015 22:39 adwodon wrote: Does anyone have any good (Dia+) replays of holding off proxy 2 / 3 rax reaper in TvT? I started dicking around with it this morning and absolutely trashed people, despite fairly poor execution myself, slightly late barracks, no real build plan, losing an early reaper to a bad rally etc It has me slightly scared now to go back to regular play as I'm sort of scratching my head as to how to hold it off with a general build, CC first now just seems like its auto-loose vs this? You definitely need to scout, can you get away without a bunker or should you get one at ramp & near mineral line? Should I just try to get a cyclone up immediately or a tank? Hellion marine seems like absolute garbage against 5-6 reapers if you make a single mistake and get hit with grenades. I'm sure its perfectly possible to hold it off, but I'm just not sure how to best incorporate it into standard play, especially as a few people are going CC first lately so I don't want to handicap myself out of fear especially as I've not really encountered this build being used against me on ladder. Just played a match where I managed to stop a 3 rax reaper proxy on Prion Terraces. We're both diamond. I opened pretty standard and noticed he was proxying because of my depot placement. I managed to stop it with a bunker and a decision to rush to banshees and tanks. This is definitely a good example of why it's important to scv scout early. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6266103 | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On November 24 2015 06:50 okto wrote: I'm pulling 90% my builds and responses from Polt so I'll just add a confirmation here. He gets that first siege tank out and reactor marines from the opening build and holds with that. Banshee or drops from there.Just played a match where I managed to stop a 3 rax reaper proxy on Prion Terraces. We're both diamond. I opened pretty standard and noticed he was proxying because of my depot placement. I managed to stop it with a bunker and a decision to rush to banshees and tanks. This is definitely a good example of why it's important to scv scout early. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6266103 I'm opening reactor fe and scv scout most maps. I'm not ready to ball-up and CC first given how many strange builds I'm unprepared to do perfect micro and adjustments to hold against. | ||
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EvilContrarian
United States26 Posts
What is the best sim city/ unit comp to use to secure your bases in a late game scenario where your expands are spread out and you are attempting to drop around the map to deny the opponent expands in tvp? Should you try to force a big engagement with a specific late game composition, or focus on starving out the protoss? | ||
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