On March 20 2016 21:24 LemonyTang wrote: Wtf do you do against 16/17 reaper rush? What build can I do that doesn't blind counter this but lets me set up for the midgame?
If you want to be very safe but also have the potential to be aggressive vs different builds, do gas first reaper->hellion->banshee. Because of the 12 worker start you can make 2 reapers without delaying your banshee. This is considered the safest build vs reapers. See marinelords build here
Or you can reaper expand but the defense is much less forgiving. QzY discussed defending reapers from reaper expand on the previous page, check out his post.
is this build still efficient ? the game was played in december
On March 20 2016 21:24 LemonyTang wrote: Wtf do you do against 16/17 reaper rush? What build can I do that doesn't blind counter this but lets me set up for the midgame?
If you want to be very safe but also have the potential to be aggressive vs different builds, do gas first reaper->hellion->banshee. Because of the 12 worker start you can make 2 reapers without delaying your banshee. This is considered the safest build vs reapers. See marinelords build here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzP-aOWrDdU
Or you can reaper expand but the defense is much less forgiving. QzY discussed defending reapers from reaper expand on the previous page, check out his post.
is this build still efficient ? the game was played in december
It's still pretty good. I think fast expands are a bit better given how many pocket natural maps we have. Banshees in general aren't as good now because of potential cyclones and when you do the two reaper two hellion thing everyone basically knows you are going banshee after so it's pretty easy to counter.
Maru just did this build against Innovation in pro league so check that one out. The strength really is how he gets a really fast third off of the pressure and then sits back and fights off Innovation's heavy two base all in. It was a good one. A lot of good TvT tactics to learn from that game.
On March 18 2016 00:05 Pokebunny wrote: I'm just dropping by this thread cuz I'm finally getting competent at LotV, but I just wanted to refute the gas first tvp statement in OP by saying it's my best build in that matchup
i'm honestly lazy as shit and hardly ever play 1v1's, if you want to throw together an update for the OP i can implement it
On March 25 2016 20:35 KonanTenshi wrote: Is there any modern guides on how to play marine/tank in TvP? I know Avilo talked about it but never really seen it afterwards.
check out uthermals games from DH Leipzig. basically you go up to 3 base saturation and then hit a huge timing attack with mass marines and 6-7 tanks. drop the tanks in a good place and then wait for him to attack into them while your marines are positioned in a big concave.
2 Base commitment all in 2 Base noncommital push on Protoss' third, retain tanks while your own third is established 3CC and move out as Protoss tries to take his fourth
The key to playing this style is having enough siegetanks and medivacs to zone out the Protoss army getting close enough to attempt disruptor shots. Also you need to be attacking close to a point of interest for Protoss: outside his third, outside his fourth; someplace where he has to play ball with you or lose an asset.
Following what I just said that means you need to be very selective about when you move out. Don't attack without a scary army and don't attack randomly without a purpose.
Tanks are especially strong when they create enough space to allow your army to attack a Nexus and punish stalkers/distuptors for blocking. In essence they're a lot more flexible and way stronger Liberator zones.
On 2 bases marines only with tanks, on 3 bases you're gonna need a more rounded infantry with marauders to fight high supply Protoss armies.
The attack will hit at 5.20~ with 2 medivacs and 16 marines with stimpack and +1 weapon upgrade.(tested on dusk towers)
Build Order
Standard reaper opener @100% Reaper, Reactor on Rax and begin marine production @400 Minerals Command Center Supply Depot Second Rax Second Gas @100% Second Rax, Tech Lab on 2nd rax, Factory and Eng Bay @100% Tech Lab, Stimpack and begin marine production @100% Eng Bay, +1 Weapon @100% Factory, Starport and Reactor on Factory @100% Starport, Double medivac
A good TvX build to ladder with? I want to have a "good" opening for TvX to start each game with, so I learn some timings and a basic build and focus on multitasking/dropping.
I really like terran and my main (read: only) playstyle is mass dropping and multitasking. Would this build help me TvX (only not sure how it would play out in TvP since reaper starts against protoss is just =/)
The attack will hit at 5.20~ with 2 medivacs and 16 marines with stimpack and +1 weapon upgrade.(tested on dusk towers)
Build Order
Standard reaper opener @100% Reaper, Reactor on Rax and begin marine production @400 Minerals Command Center Supply Depot Second Rax Second Gas @100% Second Rax, Tech Lab on 2nd rax, Factory and Eng Bay @100% Tech Lab, Stimpack and begin marine production @100% Eng Bay, +1 Weapon @100% Factory, Starport and Reactor on Factory @100% Starport, Double medivac
A good TvX build to ladder with? I want to have a "good" opening for TvX to start each game with, so I learn some timings and a basic build and focus on multitasking/dropping.
I really like terran and my main (read: only) playstyle is mass dropping and multitasking. Would this build help me TvX (only not sure how it would play out in TvP since reaper starts against protoss is just =/)
the build is fine but you have to scout for ravager timings because you need a tank for those
Definitely a very multitasky build, with that style you are often going to have a way later 3rd base than them and try to catch up in econ and control the game through harassment. Pretty good choice of build if you want to play a drop focused style.
The reaper is important, you need to scout some things and change your build like the given example of ravager timing attacks requiring a tank to hold. Another big one is in tvt your scv scout will need to rule out 3 rax reapers before you make a reactor, in that case you cant make it or you'll just die.
i take a 3rd while i drop so not sure why my 3rd would be so much behind. with the adding of the 3rd i mostly spam rax .. but mb i could go for marine tank in TvT as most high level terrans (top master and gm) i know from my clan say tvt marine tank > all tvz and tvp just mass rax and bio then i guess
is 1 factory enough or should i add more? (mostly i add 3 rax and a 3rd base when i drop .. so for tvt that would be 1 more rax and 1 factory instead of 3 rax? which makes a total of 3 rax 1 fac 1 star)
On March 29 2016 06:44 Juice! wrote: i take a 3rd while i drop so not sure why my 3rd would be so much behind. with the adding of the 3rd i mostly spam rax .. but mb i could go for marine tank in TvT as most high level terrans (top master and gm) i know from my clan say tvt marine tank > all tvz and tvp just mass rax and bio then i guess
is 1 factory enough or should i add more? (mostly i add 3 rax and a 3rd base when i drop .. so for tvt that would be 1 more rax and 1 factory instead of 3 rax? which makes a total of 3 rax 1 fac 1 star)
Usually it depends on how you want the game to progress.. If you want to play aggressively then drop rax 4 and 5 before your third CC.. This isn't always the case but it's a pretty good standard.
I would almost always say that you would have 3rax 1fact 1star on two bases, however you get to that is up to you. One TL on rax for ups, TL on fact for tanks, and reactor on SP for double medivac/liberator.
Now you can switch this in, say for instance, TvZ if you're vs. ling bling. The differences? Maybe try and get an extra Ebay for better ups (TvZ is best with 2 ebays usually, TvT+TvP 1 ebay until 1/1 then add armory and extra). Also maybe reactor for widow mines instead of fact for tanks.
I've never really explained these before and I'm tired, I've gone back and forth through this thing to add and rearrange and now I'm just gonna post it. Ex-master player here, currently diamond due to TIME CONSTRAINTS
On March 29 2016 06:44 Juice! wrote: i take a 3rd while i drop so not sure why my 3rd would be so much behind.
A 3rd you make after rushing out 2 medivacs w this build will be around 5:15~5:30, this is substantially later than protoss and zerg normally take their 3rds. A typical macro zvt build makes a 3rd base by 3:30 and a typical macro pvt build makes a 3rd base around 4 mins. So their 3rd will be finished before yours starts if they are playing standard and you are doing the build you mentioned. TvT not so much, in that matchup it's much less likely they make an early 3rd.
This is the metagame in master league anyway, if you are at a substantially lower level it is possible you're seeing rather different builds from your opponents but I don't know.
On March 31 2016 19:32 Juice! wrote: Prion, floating to the gold natural. Yay or nay =)
No. The advanced speed of development due to the 12 worker start means that the extent that your income and development falls behind your opponent during the CC movement is greater than in HotS.
EPT
