responding to the title of the thread ravens are used in mass in tvz's toward lategame to deal with the broodlord/ultra switcheroo shannigens, also you can get them if z went heavy swarm hosts to turtle.

tvp its not really used because the gas usually goes into Vikings/ghosts you can't afford ravens, and even if you did Templars can feedback ravens at almost no cost, and Templars can also feedback the the pdd after its cast.

seeker takes too long vs p and it can be dodged easily, also it just doesn't do enough damage, takes 2 seekers just to kill 1 zealot

Nebuchad

Switzerland12363 Posts

October 23 2013 11:05 GMT

#82

If you 1-1-1 vs protoss you could use a pdd to negate the photon overcharge. But yeah ofc that only works up to a point, probably high diamond I suppose

sCnInfinity

Germany82 Posts

October 23 2013 11:24 GMT

#83

Im just a Diamond Terran but i agree to most of the guys here. Most of the time, Ravens are not necessary in TvZ and they are not worth it vs Toss. But at the same time i think they are great against Roach/Hydra because they give you a positional advantage and PDDs soak up many Hydra shots. And they are nice to scare away/kill, vipers too.

Elldar

Sweden287 Posts

October 23 2013 14:53 GMT

#84

Imo it's just about the timing when you should put resources on an extra starport for raven that is hard to get right.
However when I play on ladder and terrans go for ravens they get like 3-4 starports and go mass raven and get like a sky-terran fleet. They never trickle them in to their main bio force.
Suddenly getting like 4 starports and start producing ravens only work if you play super-turtle:ish or is in a huge lead. (spending so much resources on ravens certainly eats into your main army which render you weak against counter-attacks). Getting 1 starport for raven and treat them as support seem sensible.

In tvp I am not a fan since you are already spend gas on more useful things. Depends on style though but in general.

klup

France612 Posts

October 23 2013 14:53 GMT

#85

Ravens are absolutely a go to unit vs any composition zerg can threw at mech. The only exception can be ling bling mutas ultras.

Vs SH, roach hydra , broodlord infestor they do amazingly well and are maybe a little bit overpowered in the late game. Can't wait for the patch upgrade mech+air to go transitioning raven BC it will feel very strong and we will get finally the truly scarry lategame composition !!

Vs protoss it is useless except for early game pushes where PDD can become golden.

hansonslee

United States2027 Posts

October 24 2013 09:06 GMT

#86

For TvZ, there are many reasons why Ravens won't work:
1) Terran has to use bio. As a response, zerg will use very mobile melee units, which makes PDD useless and SM very counterproductive due to the splash damage that severely hurt your fragile bio units.
2) Also, Vipers can easily abduct out of position ravens.
3) You need a murder of ravens to make them very useful, but Zerg's aggressive playstyle prevents you from having that luxury.
4) SM are very easy to avoid, unless you have a broodlord based army.

Bomber once used Ravens in ZvT by utilizing the speed medivac as a SM suicide bomber, and it at best had very average results.

For TvP, ghosts are very gas intensive and need to replaced due to their relative immobility. Also, Ravens get hard countered by High Templars' feedback.

I think it would be nice of Raven and its upgrades were cheaper in gas costs.

Bagi

Germany6799 Posts

October 26 2013 19:11 GMT

#87

Ravens might as well be considered a mech unit, its slow and clunky and thus doesn't have much synergy with bio armies. Large numbers of ravens combined with mech is incredibly strong in both TvT and TvZ though, so the unit is very strong in the right situation.

The reason ravens aren't used is the same as the siege tank isn't used: Blizzard has fucked up any concept of slow, meticulous play and instead all strategies revolve around zipping around the map as fast as possible right now. To make ravens popular you would have to go in the opposite direction than where David Kim is taking his game.

Mahtasooma

Germany475 Posts

November 01 2013 16:17 GMT

#88

Because MMMM is better than anything you can get that costs gas. This, or Koreans are crazy for not using anything else.

graNite

Germany4434 Posts

November 02 2013 10:12 GMT

#89

I am using ravens in all lategame scenarios pretty well.
With bio, you always have more than enough gas to produce ravens out of 1 starport. In TvP, my first starport gets a reactor and the second a techlab. Three Vikings at a time is the perfect number to counter colossi production, i often found myself with two reactors before and then had too many vikings.
Ravens can really kill the half toss army because they never split it up, the templar and colossi are very slow and the zealots always move in packs. Before a fight I always suicide my vikings so that the colossi number is already reduced when the acutal fight happens then i can get close to the deathball with the ravens and cast all hsms in a second with the rapid fire ability.
In smaller numbers, you can pick out single packs of templar with the ravens. The rapid fire ability is key: you dont want to get feedbacked.
In TvZ, its the same story. Although there is no danger of getting feedbacked, you need to micro well: get really close to the zerg army and then fcast all at once when he can not run away any more. you can also use single missles to scare them away or to pick of banelings that are standing around.
Ive killed huge muta flocks with this, its pretty funny.
Do not try to go mass raven all at once, just produce them one by one out of a single starport and then keep them alive.
I think ravens are underused because no pro uses the rapid fire ability.