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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
On June 06 2013 09:37 Xaeldaren wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to watch such a long game and offer your insight. I agree that the Hellion drop cost me the game. The following 20+ minutes was just me trying to claw my way back. My opponent is one of my training partners and the one I have the most trouble with. Do you have any tips for defending against someone who is so relentlessly aggressive? I'm finding it incredibly difficult to deal with Terran attacks in multiple places. I feel like it's more of an attention/army placement issue as even though I've been opening Charge > Templar over Blink > Colossus lately I still had the same issues when I opened Blink.
Yes this is the tough bit. Terran drops are clearly very strong, and you much commit to considerable drop defence in order to not take damage, and this includes both cannons as well as HT for feedback and stalkers. The problem with this is obviously that the mech army is really strong and you need all your units to fight it, and if they don't commit to drops then your units waiting in the main and at others bases are wasted. Lots of cannons is one option, but I feel they really aren't good enough, so unfortunately you just have to leave a few units at every base. If you have a good observer spread you can see the drops coming, rather than keep units at every base, maybe just have 2 groups of "anti-drop" units, one for each side of the map, and when you see a drop coming on that side move them to deal with it. That is exactly the attention and army placement problem you highlighted, and unfortunately, it's just something hard that Protoss has to learn to do ;;
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i hear minigun say once that if you put your stalkers on hold position they automatically shoot corrupters(or mutas) instead of lings. is there any truth to this? would this work vs vikings?
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What's protoss supposed to do against emp in the late game vs terran? I've just played a game where my army got massively emp'd and the terran just steamrolled me. I don't have much experience in this kind of situation because the terrans I usually play suck at late game scenarios and only know how to get vikings. It seems like I'm missing an important part of this matchup because most of my terran opponents aren't very good and just get stormed to death and then ragequit.
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Italy12247 Posts
A combination of (from easiest to hardest)
1) Storming his vikings instead of his bio, which should allow your colossi to clean up his bio.
2) Spreading your templar so they all don't get EMP'd together and outmicroing your terran opponent by landing storms before he can EMP them.
3) Warping in literally a dozen templar in random ass spots of the map and using them to flank his armies and storm from unusual locations like Parting does.
Generally it's micro issue. In lategame PvT whoever screws up micro and positioning loses.
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Thanks for the reply.
I don't think it should be too difficult to avoid getting my high templars emp'd. I'm more worried about the majority of my army getting emp'd instead, which seems pretty deadly. Is it ok if he emp's a big chunk of my army if my templars don't get emp'd?
Should I ever try to feedback ghosts instead of saving energy for storms?
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Italy12247 Posts
If they march ahead of the army yeah, but in big army fights your goal is to storm shit, not feedback ghosts. There's too much burst DPS involved for feedback to be relevant.
also, not getting templar emp'd but keeping them in position to storm is much harder than you think. Very much so comes down to the skill of the two players though.
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Some questions.
When does 7 Roach Timings from Zerg hits?
When does First Widowmine pops out if fast factory?
When does the first Widowminedrop hits (when do he arrive to your base).
Cheers!
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On June 07 2013 01:30 jwe wrote:
Some questions.
When does 7 Roach Timings from Zerg hits?
When does First Widowmine pops out if fast factory?
When does the first Widowminedrop hits (when do he arrive to your base).
Cheers!
Regarding widow mines, it depends on whether the terran went gas first or barracks first. If they went gas first, they can have a widow mine out as early at 4:40. The terran can proxy his factory outside your base, land it in your main, and make widow mines pretty fast if you don't have enough vision. He can also proxy a starport and drop widow mines instead, which means he can have a medivac and 2 widows out by 5:40. Most regular widow mine drops won't arrive before 7:00+ though. It's easy to know if the terran went gas first because his barracks will finish at about 3:00 instead of 2:40. If that happens, get your robo before any gateway units if possible (msc + warpgate--> nexus --> robo at about 4:40 --> stalker --> add 1 gateway or 2 at about 5:15). Don't forget to take your second gas right after starting your nexus if you didn't take your secodn gas at 15 supply.
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On June 07 2013 02:14 vhapter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 01:30 jwe wrote:
Some questions.
When does 7 Roach Timings from Zerg hits?
When does First Widowmine pops out if fast factory?
When does the first Widowminedrop hits (when do he arrive to your base).
Cheers! Regarding widow mines, it depends on whether the terran went gas first or barracks first. If they went gas first, they can have a widow mine out as early at 4:40. The terran can proxy his factory outside your base, land it in your main, and make widow mines pretty fast if you don't have enough vision. He can also proxy a starport and drop widow mines instead, which means he can have a medivac and 2 widows out by 5:40. Most regular widow mine drops won't arrive before 7:00+ though. It's easy to know if the terran went gas first because his barracks will finish at about 3:00 instead of 2:40. If that happens, get your robo before any gateway units if possible (msc + warpgate--> nexus --> robo at about 4:40 --> stalker --> add 1 gateway or 2 at about 5:15). Don't forget to take your second gas right after starting your nexus if you didn't take your secodn gas at 15 supply.
Thanks! It's fun that you talked about the proxy factory -> land it in main -> widow mine. Never played it before but I just did. Superfast robo for observer and gatewayunits attacking the factory and the widowmine that pops out (he will never reach mineralline) and then just double expand.
He went marine/tank all-in but didn't know I had a 3rd as well. So I just bought myself some time, DT's/Immortal/Zealots and go.
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Mini [D] post here. I've seen some 1 gate FEs against Terran get out the mocore ASAP, as in getting it before warpgate/stalker if need be and chronoing it, and other times the Protoss has been more relaxed about getting it. The former is obviously a safer version as the energy for imba cannon is there earlier, but the question is, is it necessary? To get it earlier you normally need to do the double gas with 2 probe in each thing, whereas the other can be done with a more economical 1 gas opening.
TL;DR, worth taking early double gas (2 probes in each) to get mocore super early?
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On June 07 2013 03:49 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 03:36 LardMaster wrote:
Mini [D] post here. I've seen some 1 gate FEs against Terran get out the mocore ASAP, as in getting it before warpgate/stalker if need be and chronoing it, and other times the Protoss has been more relaxed about getting it. The former is obviously a safer version as the energy for imba cannon is there earlier, but the question is, is it necessary? To get it earlier you normally need to do the double gas with 2 probe in each thing, whereas the other can be done with a more economical 1 gas opening.
TL;DR, worth taking early double gas (2 probes in each) to get mocore super early? I think it depends on when you get the Nexus. If you go Zealot/Stalker before Nexus then you probably don't need the MSC ASAP, whereas if you go 20 Nexus then you should get the MSC ASAP so that you can deflect possible Reaper harass and so you can have a Nexus Cannon as soon as the natural finishes.
Thanks  also on another note on a scale of 1 to dead how dead is the immortal sentry all in vs zerg? I've been seeing this 2 base colo all in and was wondering if it's widely accepted as better than immortal sentry or whether it's just a meta thing.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2013 04:07 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 03:55 LardMaster wrote:On June 07 2013 03:49 Sated wrote:On June 07 2013 03:36 LardMaster wrote:
Mini [D] post here. I've seen some 1 gate FEs against Terran get out the mocore ASAP, as in getting it before warpgate/stalker if need be and chronoing it, and other times the Protoss has been more relaxed about getting it. The former is obviously a safer version as the energy for imba cannon is there earlier, but the question is, is it necessary? To get it earlier you normally need to do the double gas with 2 probe in each thing, whereas the other can be done with a more economical 1 gas opening.
TL;DR, worth taking early double gas (2 probes in each) to get mocore super early? I think it depends on when you get the Nexus. If you go Zealot/Stalker before Nexus then you probably don't need the MSC ASAP, whereas if you go 20 Nexus then you should get the MSC ASAP so that you can deflect possible Reaper harass and so you can have a Nexus Cannon as soon as the natural finishes. Thanks also on another note on a scale of 1 to dead how dead is the immortal sentry all in vs zerg? I've been seeing this 2 base colo all in and was wondering if it's widely accepted as better than immortal sentry or whether it's just a meta thing. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The only problem is that a lot of the ladder maps are really open, and so don't favour a Force Field reliant all-in. EDIT: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3425884And that is from a Gateway Expand.
Cheers brotato, just hadn't seen it so much so figured something had made it worse.
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On June 07 2013 03:55 LardMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 03:49 Sated wrote:On June 07 2013 03:36 LardMaster wrote:
Mini [D] post here. I've seen some 1 gate FEs against Terran get out the mocore ASAP, as in getting it before warpgate/stalker if need be and chronoing it, and other times the Protoss has been more relaxed about getting it. The former is obviously a safer version as the energy for imba cannon is there earlier, but the question is, is it necessary? To get it earlier you normally need to do the double gas with 2 probe in each thing, whereas the other can be done with a more economical 1 gas opening.
TL;DR, worth taking early double gas (2 probes in each) to get mocore super early? I think it depends on when you get the Nexus. If you go Zealot/Stalker before Nexus then you probably don't need the MSC ASAP, whereas if you go 20 Nexus then you should get the MSC ASAP so that you can deflect possible Reaper harass and so you can have a Nexus Cannon as soon as the natural finishes. Thanks also on another note on a scale of 1 to dead how dead is the immortal sentry all in vs zerg? I've been seeing this 2 base colo all in and was wondering if it's widely accepted as better than immortal sentry or whether it's just a meta thing. I've actually started using it again with a fair amount of success. It is still quite strong if the Zerg is going for roach or ling based armies. Time warp makes it incredibly good (forcefield stuff in and then timewarp is so strong!). I haven't been doing the Parting nexus first build though, I've been doing pressure into it. I'll see if I have any decent replays. Zergs at my level (mid-Master) have been playing increasingly greedy as of late so it has been working very well.
I still think the MAN train is more fun though. It definitely pisses Zergs off more, which is always worth it in my books. Both are very good though.
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Italy12247 Posts
Yeah Soultrain is still viable, but you gotta find the right map. We don't have Antiga, Cloud Kingdom and Ohana in the pool anymore T_T.
Also best way to kill a Z is Man Train into Soul Train.
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On June 07 2013 03:36 LardMaster wrote:
Mini [D] post here. I've seen some 1 gate FEs against Terran get out the mocore ASAP, as in getting it before warpgate/stalker if need be and chronoing it, and other times the Protoss has been more relaxed about getting it. The former is obviously a safer version as the energy for imba cannon is there earlier, but the question is, is it necessary? To get it earlier you normally need to do the double gas with 2 probe in each thing, whereas the other can be done with a more economical 1 gas opening.
TL;DR, worth taking early double gas (2 probes in each) to get mocore super early?
Yes, it is totally worth it. MSC expand is actually super economical/safe. Seriously, this is all I do in PvT nowadays. Whenever I do something else, it's an all in or something cheesy. Not only does MSC expand allow for the earliest nexus possible nowadays that doesn't autolose probes against a reaper opening, but it allows you to go straight into robo before getting your first stalker. So your economy is great, you are safe against reapers, you get very early base defense with photon overcharge, an observer to scout asap, and detection against widow mine drops.
One thing to note though - you don't need double gas before the nexus to get it. If you really want to delay your second gas, then go 13 gate 13 gas instead of double gas. You just have to delay your second chrono a bit. But I don't see a problem with double gas to be honest, and I've always taken the gases at my natural pretty early too because I always tech heavy with double forge.
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EPT
