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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On August 26 2013 20:45 Zheryn wrote: Roaches have 18 damage with +1 attack. Lings have 35HP and 1 armor with +1 armor. Each roach attack will deal 17 damage to the ling. 35-17*2=1. The ling will still have 1HP after 2 attacks from the roach. You are right, sorry about that. | ||
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schwza
67 Posts
You can mess around in HotS online Unit tester to find out what works for you. What's a good unit online unit tester? I looked for one the other day and only one I found was some weird one where the units were all altered and the AI got confused. | ||
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envisioN .
United States552 Posts
On August 26 2013 17:36 ziigmund wrote: Give me 1 build against all races to practice . Im beginner . Tnx in advance http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402758 This guide is awesome and has build orders and analysis for every Zerg match up. It's also on the first page of this thread, so look a little next time  | ||
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Mornox
Germany5 Posts
This answers to the posts about gateway allins in ZvP Gateway allins were very popular in WoL and back then I won about 80%+ of those matches on diamond by going for +1 speedlings, meaning first 100gas für +1 (get gas between 15 and 20 supply, start evo at ~30 gas) and second 100 gas for speed. they finish simultaneously. have a pack of lings to get map control and try some harrass, if you see he's committing to the early all in with pure gateways just pump lings and slow him down with the lings you have. did this in HotS a few times successfully (no direct win anymore due to MSC), yet I usually encounter FFE nowadays. Success mainly depends on speedling micro. If the game continues any transition is possible, while mutas tend to be a strong option if your economy was not hurt much. In case you are a boss at scouting and see he's going for +1 gateway allin it's better to get carapace, it might be worth it to cancel +1 for it if it's not too late. depends. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
the snute build (+1 speedroach timing). Also similar roach timings usually kill me. Can you post a replay? It would help in the analysis. Thanks  Edit: Yea, I'm curious man. Replay please. I just did some test in HoTs Online Unit tester and some random numbers I got were: 28 +1 Roaches vs same supply in +1 Cara Lings and the Lings win every time. Next I did a 30 +1/+1 Roaches vs 70 supply of +1 Cara Lings, so 10supply more and that's just about break even (win some lose some). With 72 supply of +1 Cara Lings you win like 90% of time. Seems to me, as long as you don't waste too much supply and or gas on Banelings then the quicker 3rd Hatch should give you enough Larvae to hold. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On August 27 2013 08:14 a176 wrote: What to do when terran has 4 to 6 vikings sniping all of your overseers? This is very bad from Terran given hes going bio. The reason for this is hes wasting a lot of his production on vikings when they're not needed (if you have BLs he needs them) and he has a LOT less medivacs, so he will be able to drop less and keep less of his army alive after an engagement. Not to mention how easy it is to recreate overseers. as long as you're going for ling bane muta you should have a huge lead as vikings suck vs mutas. In a nutshell this is a very bad move from the terran. If youre going roach ling bane this will be nothing more than a nuisance. | ||
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ekra
Spain52 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:49 11B wrote: Can you post a replay? It would help in the analysis. Thanks Edit: Yea, I'm curious man. Replay please. I just did some test in HoTs Online Unit tester and some random numbers I got were: 28 +1 Roaches vs same supply in +1 Cara Lings and the Lings win every time. Next I did a 30 +1/+1 Roaches vs 70 supply of +1 Cara Lings, so 10supply more and that's just about break even (win some lose some). With 72 supply of +1 Cara Lings you win like 90% of time. Seems to me, as long as you don't waste too much supply and or gas on Banelings then the quicker 3rd Hatch should give you enough Larvae to hold. ok, I'll post a replay tomorrow (have to look for it) did you take into account the fact that on real games roaches will hug walls so you have like just 50% atack surface with those lings? | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
do you guys hotkey them with your main army? basically the two ways of managing them that i've tried are: 1) don't hotkey them with army, only move them separately. pros: they don't walk into the enemy army when i a-move. cons: switching between hotkeys can be tricky, also becomes easier to forget them and leave them behind 2) hotkey them with my army, have them on a second hotkey as well. a-move everything, then use the second hotkey to fire fungals and move them back while the engagement is going on. pros: keeps all my units together no matter what. cons: obviously, if i don't stay on top of what i'm doing, they will just keep walking into my opponent's deathball, and it gets messy when i have to retreat for concaves i have a really hard time with either style, especially because fungal's range is mediocre and they're a large unit which easily blocks my army (which sucks since terran and protoss both get small casters) anyone have tips? is it just a matter of practice, practice, practice? | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:20 Waise wrote: how the hell do i keep infestors alive? do you guys hotkey them with your main army? basically the two ways of managing them that i've tried are: 1) don't hotkey them with army, only move them separately. pros: they don't walk into the enemy army when i a-move. cons: switching between hotkeys can be tricky, also becomes easier to forget them and leave them behind 2) hotkey them with my army, have them on a second hotkey as well. a-move everything, then use the second hotkey to fire fungals and move them back while the engagement is going on. pros: keeps all my units together no matter what. cons: obviously, if i don't stay on top of what i'm doing, they will just keep walking into my opponent's deathball, and it gets messy when i have to retreat for concaves i have a really hard time with either style, especially because fungal's range is mediocre and they're a large unit which easily blocks my army (which sucks since terran and protoss both get small casters) anyone have tips? is it just a matter of practice, practice, practice? its really not that hard to use different control groups? i mean, you already have your hatcheries/queens/ovies/etc on a different control group than your army(s) | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:53 a176 wrote: its really not that hard to use different control groups? i mean, you already have your hatcheries/queens/ovies/etc on a different control group than your army(s) thanks for the snarky answer telling me "it's not hard" when i post that i struggle with something does not help and is pretty rude. in fact, your post wasn't even an answer to my questions. not really what i expect from a "help me" thread!it also seems you misread my post entirely, as neither of the two styles i said that i use do NOT involve having infestors on a second hotkey. i ALWAYS have them on their own hotkey. maybe read a little closer instead of rushing to make a condescending post. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:56 Waise wrote: thanks for the snarky answer telling me "it's not hard" when i post that i struggle with something does not help and is pretty rude. in fact, your post wasn't even an answer to my questions. not really what i expect from a "help me" thread!it also seems you misread my post entirely, as neither of the two styles i said that i use do NOT involve having infestors on a second hotkey. i ALWAYS have them on their own hotkey. maybe read a little closer instead of rushing to make a condescending post. There was nothing snarky about his post. You either need to start practicing using more than 1 hotkey for everything or you should get used to losing your spellcasters and units of varying movement speed because they simply don't move with the rest of your army. Practice it and it won't be difficult. Most people find using multiple hotkeys in this game rather simple once you start using it. | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
What's a good unit online unit tester? Login and connect to sc2 Via the Battlenet launcher per usual -> choose Arcade -> type in "HoTs Online Unit Testor -> gets you several good choices to use. In the testor itself I prefer to use "terrain" and "field" option (makes it easier). how the hell do i keep infestors alive? Keep your spell castors on a separate hotkey. Then, when you have the rest of your Army on a single hot key keep it simple -> say your castors are Hotkey 2 -> 2 right click on your longest ranged unit, i.e., if you have Hydra/Roach have them follow the Hydra's -> and then hit 1A towards your target spot. If this doesn't apply because you have all Zerglings, and or Ultras then have them follow an Ultra, etc, etc. If your Macro, and or micro begins to slip there's no shame in hitting (select whole army hotkey) -> A into a target area -> double tap 2 (whatever your spell casters are) and then immediately right click as above. Sometimes the unit you're following will die and your Infestors stop moving, but to be honest, aside from setting up a good concave (which only takes a few seconds) you should be focusing the majority of your time during the battle on your Infestors. So if they do stop you'll notice and react accordingly. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:20 Waise wrote: how the hell do i keep infestors alive? do you guys hotkey them with your main army? basically the two ways of managing them that i've tried are: 1) don't hotkey them with army, only move them separately. pros: they don't walk into the enemy army when i a-move. cons: switching between hotkeys can be tricky, also becomes easier to forget them and leave them behind 2) hotkey them with my army, have them on a second hotkey as well. a-move everything, then use the second hotkey to fire fungals and move them back while the engagement is going on. pros: keeps all my units together no matter what. cons: obviously, if i don't stay on top of what i'm doing, they will just keep walking into my opponent's deathball, and it gets messy when i have to retreat for concaves i have a really hard time with either style, especially because fungal's range is mediocre and they're a large unit which easily blocks my army (which sucks since terran and protoss both get small casters) anyone have tips? is it just a matter of practice, practice, practice? Maybe you're using the all army hotkey ? Which is bad. Don't worry, just 1-a click and 2-right click everytime you have infestors. It'll simply become a routine after you get used to it really. | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
At my level (mid-masters random), going pure muta-ling-bling is just so much more difficult than a Terran executing the MMMM parade. One big mine hit, a brief lapse in attention, one round of missed injects or forgetting to morph banelings = loss. I find that mixing in about ~10-14 roaches in my main army is IMMENSELY helpful in engagements, as roaches are pretty good at tanking mine hits. No missile upgrades needed, the roaches are just there to lead engagements so the mines go off. Mutas can do this too to an extent, but they tend to clump easily and are a lot more costly in gas than roaches. Moreover, the larger collision size of the roaches means that even if mine hits do go off on your 1-A'ing clumped army, less ling/blings will die. I usually start to mix in roaches after my 3rd is saturated, before the 2nd wave of MMMM comes when the mine count becomes significant. TLDR: Mixing in 10-14 roaches in your main army in ZvT is GOOD. Advantages: - Roaches are very good at tanking mine hits - easier to bait than lings, and much less costly than mutas. - Roaches cost very little gas. - Roaches are larva efficient. - Missile upgrade not needed, all that's invested are the 10-14 roaches + roach warren + roach speed. - Roaches help with mid-game hellbat/hellion cheese. Disadvantages: - Takes a bit of gas (400-600) away from mutas. Any thoughts on just mixing in some roaches into your army as opposed to going roach-bane? | ||
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emanresU
Germany393 Posts
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
Can someone quickly explain what I was fucking supposed to do? *From my experience, you're just not supposed to be able to cross the map against terran? Call it bad luck or lack of map control, every time I try to run by on his soon to be third, I get fucking mauled in the ass while two fucking mines rape my zerglings at home. *This fucker is the perfect example of how freaking frustrating playing terran is. Getting perfectly surrounded/engaged because you don't have half a brain to not walk like that on the creep? No problem. Just lift off and boost away (I have never managed since hots to catch more than one medivac after a straight engagement win, unless the T messes really hard) and let the mines do the job on the retreat because the zerg doesn't have bullet time split/awareness, 1000apm, and is for example trying to keep his injects/macro going. So what? I *win* the fight, back up, macro and then spend 2full minutes demining the zone before the next attack hits? Am I even supposed to be able to get off my fucking creep? *The end is not really comment worthy since he pretty much amoved me after all this. Sorry for the frustration both in this post and in the replay but TvZ is really aggravting. | ||
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ekra
Spain52 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:13 ekra wrote: ok, I'll post a replay tomorrow (have to look for it) did you take into account the fact that on real games roaches will hug walls so you have like just 50% atack surface with those lings? here's the replay: http://drop.sc/355777 | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
Can someone quickly explain what I was fucking supposed to do? + Show Spoiler + After scouting his early CC build you reacted very nicely with 3 Hatch into pool. And in general, although I'm giving my advice and some criticism I feel you definitely outplayed your opponent up till just around the 9:00 mark ^^. My thoughts......... I'd like to see you make more than 3 Queens for starters. With 3 Hatch before pool you could quite easily have powered your way to 5 Queens! Imo this is much better for a few reasons. 1st, better creep -> faster movement -> better scouting via more vision -> and of course -> nice defense vs Hellions. Also, going more Queens lets you skip RW and roaches (at least early, or forever) and use your gas more efficiently. I say efficiently because grabbing those Roaches delayed your Lair timing by 30s, which in turn slows down your Bling speed by as much too. You could use some better scouting man. You never sacrificed an Overlord to see his main base and your overall overlord placement was, at least imo, pretty bad. And to make things a bit worse, with no vision from Ovies you didn't have a few Lings in more key places. Basically, if you have better creep/scouting/vision you'd be ready for his 11:00 attack that killed your 3rd base -> which is the reason why you lost the game.You missed an inject for over 30s around the 7:41 - 8:11 mark in your main. To reiterate, getting RW and roaches slowed down your gas timings, at least with the build you used. Use extra Queens/Queen to defend and abuse creep. Um, the first Hellion attack at your 3rd lost 7 drones. Not game ending by any means (you got his Hellions ^^) but you had your Queen and 2 Roaches positioned in a blocking area and your ran your Drones "away" from the block into the open, all by them selves ^^. You could have probably saved 5-6 drone if you moved them towards your Roaches, or -> SE, not West. Around 9:45s you had almost 800 minerals, which I would have liked to see invested in 2 more macro Hatches, which would have worked nicely had you grabbed 2 additional Queens early. For me, if you're going to open 2x gas at 5:25s -> speed -> 2 evos 1/1 -> Lair build and you follow it up with 3rd/4th gas at 8:45 then you should be opting for a macro oriented approach with much more Ling/Bling flooding with delayed Muta tech (13-14m mark). Otherwise what's the point of delaying the 3rd/4th gas for so long? You get less gas and many more minerals yea? Might as well put those minerals to use. Right around the 9:50ish mark you were supply blocked and made 6 ovies. Now take that earlier 30s missed inject, and the few extra drones you had to remake and you could realistically have had something that looked like 6 more larvae from the inject (+4 inject +2 from 1 larvae every 15s), 4 more larvae from being supply blocked (gotta use 2 for the ovies ya), and 4-6 more from the remake of drones = 14 or 16 more Larvae that could have been used by the 10:00 mark. Which leads me to my last point: Imo you should really halt drone production and concentrate on non stop units sometime in the 9:15 - 9:35 mark. But still, at least IMO, you still easily outplayed your opponent during most of the time which led to you losing your 3rd. That Terran had much lower SCV count at around 9:45 than he should, and all his buildings/add-ons were delayed too. His initial macro was quite poor and he simply capitalized on your lack of scouting. | ||
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