Not sure if this is the right place, sorry if it isn't...
My friend and I are playing some 2v2s. We were masters in WoL, but he just got HoTS and we are having a lot of trouble. We want to execute a timing where he fast expos, I stay on one base (P) and we hit together. Can anyone give me a basic build for him? I don't want to steer him wrong as I am not a zerg player myself...
Maybe a 10 pool bane to go with my gateway aggression? ( Although this isn't a fast expo) I was thinking this looks like 10 pool gas drone baneling nest asap.
but im not sure.
Thanks for the help.
I know long macro play is generally superior... but im much better at macro (he just got the game) so we fall behind and I just want a timing so we can win so he doesn't get discouraged. Plus getting a 3rd in 2v2 is really really hard =\
Either fast expo or early aggression, depending on their races/the map. We like to have a 15 hatch build available just because some maps favor that style heavily (1 ramp and 3 bases inside it).
Either build would be great... I'm thinking of the roach bane aggression but idk how that works out in 2v2. He just needs some guidance for 2v2 because I am not a zerg but I can tell he seems aimless at times...
He particularly likes the early micro, and he likes doing 6 pools but I feel like as soon as we play a team where both players can worker micro we will auto-lose, so I've veto'd the 6 pool =\
On August 23 2013 09:18 Phloat wrote: Either fast expo or early aggression, depending on their races/the map. We like to have a 15 hatch build available just because some maps favor that style heavily (1 ramp and 3 bases inside it).
Either build would be great... I'm thinking of the roach bane aggression but idk how that works out in 2v2. He just needs some guidance for 2v2 because I am not a zerg but I can tell he seems aimless at times...
He particularly likes the early micro, and he likes doing 6 pools but I feel like as soon as we play a team where both players can worker micro we will auto-lose, so I've veto'd the 6 pool =\
I think you should just let him learn 10pool speed or 7rr. Those are decent stable builds and while not optimal will make him improve quite fast until he can do a decent 2base.
Hey, thanks for the guide, it's super helpful. I've not played in about a year... when terrans use the mines... what's the best way to handle them? I tried sniping a few but they shoot to quickly and just kill my units anyway
What if you're playing vs terran and he kinda goes for a super turtle build(with bio) and then get a lot of ravens? I tried ultralisk, then broodlord, but it just died to the ravens He had a lot of marauders and ravens, and kept dropping and denying bases. What can I do, especially in a map like Derelict Watcher? Replay: http://sc2share.com/BFx
On August 24 2013 11:29 ItzShakti wrote: What if you're playing vs terran and he kinda goes for a super turtle build(with bio) and then get a lot of ravens? I tried ultralisk, then broodlord, but it just died to the ravens He had a lot of marauders and ravens, and kept dropping and denying bases. What can I do, especially in a map like Derelict Watcher? Replay: http://sc2share.com/BFx
A guy did that to me too, same map. I cant watch the replay but if he does hat you should have enough time or theorycrafting a ood unt comp. say he has raven marine marauder, I would go viper infestor hydra long, but that takes a lot of micro. Maybe even a few swarm hosts. End game vs Terran (mainly anycomp with lots of ravens) is very difficult, especially on a map like derelict watcher. Generaly I'm going to say MASS spine/spore with some lings at each base for drops (lings tank well vs marauders while the spines kill and spores shoot the medis or even banshee harass). Hell, a viper per base of you can afford it can help to abduct medis into spores. If you get a lot of corrupters, brood lords, swarm hosts, queens, infestors, vipers and skill, you will have all the assets. Even throwing in an ultra if they lack marauders is good, and more hydras if yu have a ground lead to help win the air battle.
IN GENERAL: you should win one battle (or both); the air and ground battle. Whichever you win, you get units from that frontier that can help the losing battle. Corrupters fight directly the air battle. When you won the air battle, you can use brood lords to help on the ground front and vipers can be protected and then used. Now with the ground battle, SHs win you that usualy very well. Roaches, ultras and lings are direct ground battlers, and infestors (similar to vipers) are units you use when you are equal or ahead on the ground front to help on both fronts. Hydras are ground units that help air.
Because of how good a zergs ground army is in end game and the strength of Terran air to Zerg air, you should use swarm hosts and ground to ground fighters to win the ground battle, then use queens, SOME hydras and infestors to help with the air battle that the corrupters fight in.
If you squeeze some 3/3 cracklings into his base, lemme tell you, stuff WILL die.
This is one of the things that, until one gets super high level, should not concern themselves over. I myself just got to this level, so if someone with experience can point out my mistakes in this post, please correct them.
What if you're playing vs terran and he kinda goes for a super turtle build(with bio) and then get a lot of ravens?
Agree with most of what DilemaH said. Auto-Turrets are annoying and pretty damn strong so be sure to throw in Roaches to help deal with them.......simply because they are cheaper than Hydras and they can take a lot more damage. So in places where you don't have lot's of spines (which do a good job vs turrets) use Roaches to clear out the Auto Turrets and use Infestors/Fungal/IT in conjunction with Hydras/Viper to kill off the Ravens.
And don't be afraid to liberally use your Infestors to actively attack Terrans bases. Sure, it's nice to use them on Fungals but you don't want to just sit around waiting for the next attack. Yea, it uses up lot's of energy but if you have 12-16 Infestors you can easily take out 2 Planetary Fortresses and scv (different bases repsectively). And when they go Planetary Fortress crazy.....like 3-4 at one base, simply throw down some blinding clouds in conjunction with mass IT/Hydra/Roach and it's pretty much instantly dead. Also, this is when Roaches come in handy because while you're waiting for your Infestor energy to recharge the Roaches can deal with Auto Turrets.
Just gonna say that one more time ^^. You want spines and Roaches to deal with Auto Turrets. Hydra's cost a lot more and die much quicker. So save your Hydra's for harassment, deter and stop drops, and of course, when engaging in head on encounters against the Ravens (aided by Fungals). After all, Ravens move slow.
And another neat trick to use is Infestors -> IT on top of Cliffs or spots where Ravens and marauders/marines, and or turrets might be located, and then bring in doom drops of Hydra/Roach/Infestors. So with these tactics in general (inclucing the ones above) can hopefully shut down quite a bit of bases, and or mining, OR, kill his production. Accomplishing either one of these should allow you to eventually win. Either ways it's a pain in the a$$ playing vs this ^^.
On my server, on my level, basically every Zerg (Seriously 80+% recently) have gone for 2-base Mutas. Is there a way to blindly counter this strat? Maybe some kind of Roach/Bane timing or something?
If not, how do I stop it? I've been having mixed success with fast Hydras, going into Roach/Hydra, but I seem to have my third denied constantly, and wind up having to all-in off two bases. If I have a critical mass of Roach/Hydra and my opponent doesn't manage to connect against my Hydras with his Banes, I win, but I'm really relying on my opponent to screw up here.
On August 24 2013 11:29 ItzShakti wrote: What if you're playing vs terran and he kinda goes for a super turtle build(with bio) and then get a lot of ravens? I tried ultralisk, then broodlord, but it just died to the ravens He had a lot of marauders and ravens, and kept dropping and denying bases. What can I do, especially in a map like Derelict Watcher? Replay: http://sc2share.com/BFx
You lost because you let the terran establish a fourth base with no contest imo. Ravens are a bitch to deal and terran units are much more effecient than zerg so letting the terran take bases like that is actually bad. You had a better economy than the terran for the longest while which showed itself after your big push at area outside the natural. He had like no money left and if you been diligent about denying the fourth than he would ache for more income. He was running dry in the nat and main was mined out.
Composition wise you can go ultra/muta/ling/bling and kill the ravens with the mutalisks, should work better with lower raven count (less than 8). Be careful of seeker missiles. Or just corruptor/ultra/infestor/ling imo. When you kill the ravens off you can switch to brood lord.
On August 24 2013 19:46 Salivanth wrote: On my server, on my level, basically every Zerg (Seriously 80+% recently) have gone for 2-base Mutas. Is there a way to blindly counter this strat? Maybe some kind of Roach/Bane timing or something?
If not, how do I stop it? I've been having mixed success with fast Hydras, going into Roach/Hydra, but I seem to have my third denied constantly, and wind up having to all-in off two bases. If I have a critical mass of Roach/Hydra and my opponent doesn't manage to connect against my Hydras with his Banes, I win, but I'm really relying on my opponent to screw up here.
Are they rushing mutalisk or are they just going semi-fast mutalisk after some ling/bling exchanges? (When you say 2-base mutalisk you generally think of the rush build) Big difference and the responses is aswell. If the opponent goes really fast lair into mutalisk just go kill him with speedlings the opponent will have like no units. Otherwise just take a third when the ling pressure is off and get up spores up in time for the mutalisks. You don't desperately need to rush for hydralisk get them when you can but you should not panic about it, spores will fend of mutalisk. You need hydras to push out on the map generally not to defend against mutalisk.
On my server, on my level, basically every Zerg (Seriously 80+% recently) have gone for 2-base Mutas. Is there a way to blindly counter this strat? Maybe some kind of Roach/Bane timing or something?
Gasless, into +1/+1 Roach should hit his base around the time they have just finished their Spire which gives you a slight window to do lot's of damage. +1 to the comment above about taking your 3rd when safe + spores. In cases where you were unable to get a 3rd up just keep on 2 bases and push out when +2/+2 finishes with a nice combination of Roach/Hydra.
If they didn't switch to Roach/Hydra themselves they're pretty much dead (assuming they're initial harass didn't do much). If they did switch you'll have the upgrade advantage and at the very least will be able to take out they're 3rd base as you're finally getting your up and running.
Here's a video showcasing Korea's #1 GM Zerg build order (like a month old, so pretty recent):
The biggest problem I have is my apm. I know what i need to be doing but i cannot do it fast enough playing as zerg. Does anyone have any strategies to get better at this besides just playing more? My apm is usually around 50-60 but i still have to look at number keys often and hitting my F keys is difficult plus trying to be everywhere on the map. Any help is appreciated.
On August 24 2013 22:51 wook79 wrote: The biggest problem I have is my apm. I know what i need to be doing but i cannot do it fast enough playing as zerg. Does anyone have any strategies to get better at this besides just playing more? My apm is usually around 50-60 but i still have to look at number keys often and hitting my F keys is difficult plus trying to be everywhere on the map. Any help is appreciated.
I would say that simply playing a lot will improve your apm and the basics will come easily to you. Also if you feel your apm is too low you need to make sure you make every action count. Make a routine in your head which you go trough in the so you can make sure you are always doing something useful. I´m not really good enough to tell you but hopefully somebody else could suggest some system for you (inject->scout-->units-->supply-->creep and repeat)
How do you deal with gateway all-ins? Does anyone have any replays I could watch? I'm a diamond Zerg just getting absolutely mauled by gateway all-ins and apparently a fast 3rd is no longer an option vs toss. How do you win without a fast 3rd? How do you hold off gateway all-ins? I am on a 9 game losing streak for the first time in years because of this.
On August 24 2013 22:51 wook79 wrote: The biggest problem I have is my apm. I know what i need to be doing but i cannot do it fast enough playing as zerg. Does anyone have any strategies to get better at this besides just playing more? My apm is usually around 50-60 but i still have to look at number keys often and hitting my F keys is difficult plus trying to be everywhere on the map. Any help is appreciated.
This is rarely a player's biggest problem. As RaFox said, focus on improving selective aspects of your game. If you have to look down at your keys constantly, you probably haven't played enough, or maybe it may be worth switching to the grid or something (search TL for "grid hotkeys"), though you'll probably need at least a 100 games to get used to the new setup. Otherwise, just focus on pure macro, then macro w/ creep spread, macro with engaging properly, etc.
On August 25 2013 01:13 Dynamaxion wrote: How do you deal with gateway all-ins? Does anyone have any replays I could watch? I'm a diamond Zerg just getting absolutely mauled by gateway all-ins and apparently a fast 3rd is no longer an option vs toss. How do you win without a fast 3rd? How do you hold off gateway all-ins? I am on a 9 game losing streak for the first time in years because of this.
It's definitely not true that you can't hold a 3rd vs gateway allins. Gateway allins are actually easier to hold now (if you know they are coming) because of an upgrade that moved to hatch tech: burrow. Burrowed roaches with proper macro destroy gateway allins since he has no observer.
Make sure you scout his base to see his tech; if you see chronos on the cyber or just a bunch of gateways with no tech, immediately start researching burrow and making units. A couple of spines can be very helpful until your macro kicks in as well (usually he'll go for your 3rd, so that's a good place to spine). I believe the earliest gateway allins off of FFE can hit around 7:45ish, and I think this is a little earlier off of gateway expand (but no +1), so they come much earlier than other allins. This means your drone count may be fairly low, but as long as you survive the allin you should be able to win easily.
On August 25 2013 04:45 Dynamaxion wrote: When would you take the roach warren and gases? If I try to do this I only have 3 or 4 roaches out by the time Protoss is attacking
Probably a build order problem.
VS FFE use this one : If you can do it properly, it'll get you to the midgame with solid eco and a way to defend gateway all ins. Just be careful to check gasses at the nat to make sure it's gate allin.
15 pool 16 hatch (15th drone to nat) 15 OV 15 Queen 1 Ling 21st drone send to 3rd 21 queen (first queen sent to nat) 24 OV 30 queen at nat (creep tumor send to 3rd) 32 OV 44 get supply blocked (take 2 gasses check if he has gas at natural, then lair, if no gasses then speed first + prepare to defend vs gate allin) 42 OV Halfway through 2 geysers take a 3rd geyser 46 Roach Warren + Evo Chamber 3rd finishes drone up 48 OV
This is only vs FFE. Vs gate expo take a gas then take your third as he takes his nat. Scout around 5 for gates at the entrance of the nat. If there are gates here, put down roach warren immediatly. (5:15) Don't overdrone and you'll be fine to defend 4 gate pressure.
EPT
