what is the difference between holding down [i] and holding down Control+[i]?
[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 262
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
what is the difference between holding down [i] and holding down Control+[i]? | ||
SpoogeCoffer
New Zealand51 Posts
On July 30 2013 04:03 JaKaTaK wrote: Control +[i] mine drop what is the difference between holding down [i] and holding down Control+[i]? ctrl+i will select any other mines being dropped, while not having to manually click them. Simply holding I requires you to manually click on each mine. So ctrl+ requires no mouse accuracy / movement where simply i requires a lot of mouse accuracy / movement. Ctrl+i is quicker. | ||
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
We need to find the default vaules for all the commands in the game and get them into TheCoreSeed.ini. There are a shit ton of campaign keys in there that are difficult to hunt down, but a lot of them are just time consuming to find and be sure are correct. It is very important that these keys are accurate, otherwise the versions we push out will be incorrect, and it might cause unbound keys as well. The format of this file is as follows: nameofhotkey = 1|2|3|4|5 1 is PLM 2 is TLM 3 is RLM 4 is ZLM 5 is Standard (for right-handed mouse users) If 1-4 are all the same it will look like this: nameofhotkey = 1|2 1 is xLM 2 is Standard We need to find the keys that don't have the part filled in for standard and figure out what they are. @SpoogeCoffer Control +[i] mine drop oh, okay. I understand now. This is definitely something we need to fix for 0.8. Thanks ![]() | ||
zergedtodeath
Sweden4 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
![]() Need to put that in the FAQ... We're working on getting the visualizer updated with multiple keyboard types. I have no idea when that will happen as it is completely out of my hands. | ||
Czarnodziej
Poland624 Posts
EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423198 - Hotkeys can now be properly assigned to evolution split strains. Hot damn, its about time! | ||
zergedtodeath
Sweden4 Posts
On July 30 2013 07:01 JaKaTaK wrote: Alt Gr = Alt+Ctrl ![]() Need to put that in the FAQ... We're working on getting the visualizer updated with multiple keyboard types. I have no idea when that will happen as it is completely out of my hands. Thanks. | ||
SpoogeCoffer
New Zealand51 Posts
Any sort of an eta for an update to the core? Edit: I use the dvorak layout. This makes sense that there's a conflict as in dvorak the z is on the right side where the / is for qwerty. Naturally this means that in the dvorak layout z is used to bring up the units lost tab - so there is a conflict, however shift+z still functions fine. | ||
quonzoran
Germany31 Posts
Sorry, I do not really get, what the intention of this post is. Is it just an information, or explanation, how time consuming it is to get to 0.8? (... and do not understand, what the file TheCoreSeed.ini is and why it is important, or campaign keys are, for me, so far everything works perfect). As you say, it is important, would like to understand, and if you want an action/help from us or not ... ![]() TheCoreTricks @Beedebdoo: Thanks for your feedback, probably needed to be more precise - this is how I changed it: P - O - OOO (3 drones) - I (1 Overlord) - CTRL-click overlord egg (at your production screen in the bottom center), right click at scouting location That works for me ... EDIT: On July 30 2013 07:19 Czarnodziej wrote: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/10530389/ - Hotkeys can now be properly assigned to evolution split strains. Hot damn, its about time! Sorry, do not understand what you mean (evolution split strains?) - and the link points to an overview of posts, where I do not find anyhting, too ... ![]() | ||
Czarnodziej
Poland624 Posts
Copy of patch notes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423198 Evolution split strains concerns hotkeys in campaign mode. | ||
SpoogeCoffer
New Zealand51 Posts
Yay, can we ut these on different hotkeys now? So many times I have stopped them spreading creep because it takes them a couple seonds for the animation to appear when they come to a halt and so I always freak out and try to turn it on again only to turn it off. | ||
Dricus
Netherlands2 Posts
One issue I was having is the lack of a hotkey to select the next/previous subgroup of a control group as I have a mouse without extra buttons on it. This was easily resolved by manually mapping the Y and U keys. Another issue I was having was the need to remove the windows key or (in my case) the shift key being awkward to reach because I'm actually using the left windows key a lot. So after doing some research on Blizzards standpoint on using autohotkey (which they seem to be okay with as long as you don't use it to automate stuff) I've made a small autohotkey script that maps the left and right windows keys to the left and right shift keys. Using this script I can just use the windows key in stead of the shift key, which is a lot more convenient for me. I'm guessing that I'm not the only person with the "shift-issue", so I'd like to share my script here. To make it convenient to use, I made it launch the SC2 launcher automatically. When the launcher closes it waits for the actual game to start. When the launcher is closed without starting the game or after you exit the game, it will close itself automatically. For those who don't have autohotkey installed, I've also created a standalone executable of it which doesn't need autohotkey installed. The mapping will only be active if the game is active. So if you alt-tab out if the game, the windows key will work normally again. You can also suspend the script by pressing the minus key on the numeric keypad. Press it again to reactivate the script. To install it, copy the script or the executable to your SC2 folder. If you want, you can change the SC2 shortcut in your start menu to point to the script or executable. Otherwise, just doubleclick it to start it or create a separate shortcut to it in your start menu. Important: Make sure you don't disable the windows key in the SC2 options. If you do, this script won't work! Click here to download the script. Click here to download the standalone executable. | ||
Slashiepie
107 Posts
On July 31 2013 04:58 Dricus wrote: I'm new to TheCore, started using it only a week ago and I'm loving it. Especially for the fact that it's also available for lefties like me! So thanks a lot for that! Together with The Staircase and Filter's Bronze to Masters lessons it got me back into playing SC2 after I think more than a year of not playing anymore. One issue I was having is the lack of a hotkey to select the next/previous subgroup of a control group as I have a mouse without extra buttons on it. This was easily resolved by manually mapping the Y and U keys. Another issue I was having was the need to remove the windows key or (in my case) the shift key being awkward to reach because I'm actually using the left windows key a lot. So after doing some research on Blizzards standpoint on using autohotkey (which they seem to be okay with as long as you don't use it to automate stuff) I've made a small autohotkey script that maps the left and right windows keys to the left and right shift keys. Using this script I can just use the windows key in stead of the shift key, which is a lot more convenient for me. I'm guessing that I'm not the only person with the "shift-issue", so I'd like to share my script here. To make it convenient to use, I made it launch the SC2 launcher automatically. When the launcher closes it waits for the actual game to start. When the launcher is closed without starting the game or after you exit the game, it will close itself automatically. For those who don't have autohotkey installed, I've also created a standalone executable of it which doesn't need autohotkey installed. The mapping will only be active if the game is active. So if you alt-tab out if the game, the windows key will work normally again. You can also suspend the script by pressing the minus key on the numeric keypad. Press it again to reactivate the script. To install it, copy the script or the executable to your SC2 folder. If you want, you can change the SC2 shortcut in your start menu to point to the script or executable. Otherwise, just doubleclick it to start it or create a separate shortcut to it in your start menu. Important: Make sure you don't disable the windows key in the SC2 options. If you do, this script won't work! Click here to download the script. Click here to download the standalone executable. I also took this approach a long ago and i must say it was really comfortable having shift mapped to the windows key and/or the Fn Key, i used sharpkeys though. I decided to stop doing it because whenever i played at a friends house, or elsewhere i would become a mega noob and my brain could just not adapt to using shift. I must say that setup was highly effective, because if you actually remap control to also be one key to the left, you do not need to tilt the keyboard anymore and the whole layout becomes extremely compact and comfortable. Which brings me to the point, we could also work on a "steroids" version of the core, which is not ripe for tournament usage, but can provide the best advantages of external scripting and repeaters. | ||
Beedebdoo
130 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
the tilt The tilt of the keyboard is only really eliminated with a grid type key layout. Because most keyboards are not this way, TheCore has a tilt. @Bee Select Larva I is our best option for select larva. / can't be used for things used repetitively or held down (drone). ' would be interesting, but we would have to change the suggested CGs to eliminate finger repetition (put hatchery on O). What does everyone else think about this? nice catch on the bunker combo, we can absolutely streamline that for 0.8 :D | ||
Doomstar1
United Kingdom5 Posts
My APM has finally gotten higher than before switching to Core, and I no longer miss any drone building timings, also I reinforce much quicker now and tend to remember to build units more using the core, but a few new problems have arisen and until I get way more used to using cameras (or decide to bypass them all together) I need a better/ more reliable way to check on injects without taking me out of battle. During the early game I can get my BO and drone/overlord timings pretty near perfect, but I start missing multiple larva injects mid-late game. One big reason is that I cannot personally afford to switch cams to look at the progress bar is that I throw away too many skirmishes and big battles when looking away, but with the core I am still able to effectively drone or build units and add to one or two control groups while microing in small exchanges so long as I don't go through camera groups, I'd like pointers on adding to this strength by finding a better rhythm for checking injects and upgrades, rather than just getting used to using the cameras more, I simply don't think that's a skill I'm quick enough to effectively add in. Through earlyish to mid game I can count to three on larva usage (individual larva spawns) but this creates a 5 second delay on each inject, and as battles go I lose track of my internal count of 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. inject. I need something that I can instinctively tap over to see a progress bar for a hatchery like I do with p .. o to check non-injected larva, so that I can check and inject everything once that larva pops. I think I may need to switch back to the base cam inject as well, camera injecting finally works mechancally for me for the first three bases, but I have yet to successfully incorporate cameras 4-6 as part of my pattern, moreover, I'm not getting any useful information from the camera switching over base cams. Aside from K, which I always know is my main base, and which usually allows me to check on some progress bars for upgrades, I still don't identify a specific cam with a specific base, as sometimes I need to move bases from my initial plans for bases or ninja expand if I notice my opponent isn't scouting. Also, I noticed that double tapping P brings you automatically to the newest created hatch, which is generally the only one I need to drone up on manually, limiting my need to specifically choose which base to go to. At this point in my game, I'm simply not a good enough player to select the cam I need to get to the base I want to go to and use that button combination of shift + cam key; it's quicker for me (mentally) to click the mini map or cycle base cams. I was thinking of keeping base cam K for the main base, and either making one more base cam L for either my ninja expand or forward base and doing that consistently to build muscle memory and instinct, and using Shift + ; as the new base cam, but wondered if anyone who uses base cams has a more effective combo. I also need something more effective for my free cams, switching between Shift + key for base cams to Control + key for free cams is certainly useful for creep spreading mechanically, but mentally I can't get past that switch quickly and it's starting to make me create new bad habits, like mainly missing my creep spread. I finally was able to do better with my upgrades progress by using ] as a CG for my upgrades. I think putting only one hatch on ] would help me to check injects, but then I would probably slip on upgrades again. I also need to do something to check upgrades for one time unilike Roach speed, Hydra speed, etc.) because I'm not putting them in control groups, and when I put them in my ] CG with upgrades there were just way too many taps to get through (I use that for just Evo chambers and Spires). My most common problems are missing unit upgrades, and not using enough control groups. I make great use of P and Shift P for queens and all hatches, while L is easy for me to hit, and I'm usually able to incorporate ; as well for units, but beyond those two army groups I'm having trouble reaching the other CG keys quickly enough to be effective and have regressed back to using the All army command more often than I'd like. I sometimes use 9 and 0 for air units once I get into muta/corrupter play, but usually screw up when I need to get Brood Lords in there as the - key just doesn't feel as natural. Not sure if this will come to me or not. Sometimes I don't go air and need 9 and 0 for two baneling groups, or two harass groups, which screws me up in the transition to air later, other control groups feel unusual for me to assign which is why I'm not using them often enough yet. What I would like to do is create a specific pattern to go from my army, to injecting all hatches, to then back to the army. I'm good with Shift + P then O to get ready to inject, maybe with shift + ; as the base cam I can go through those quickly enough along with a Rapid Fire button, and then double tap ;; to get back to that army control group, but I would imagine there is a quicker way to cycle that. I know that if I use U as the rapid fire in this set up, the hand placement is a little weird and makes the double tap on ;; a little more odd, so I'm not sure if there is a better way to work around. What I would ideally like to do is my shift + p + o for queens and inject followed by pressing and holding two keys for a second (base cam and rapid fire) to quickly inject everything, then have the easiest transition on my hands to go immediately back to the army either as a screen, or as the control group in the fray. Also, with taking out Base cameras 4-6 which I honestly just do not and probably will never use, will that free up combos that work better for control groups? I'm asking here from anyone that uses the Base cam and found something better to do with the options left in 9 0 and -. Maybe finding a way to incorporate shift + 9, 0, - will allow me to keep air and harass groups in the same area and reinforce muscle memory and instinct. Thanks for any tips and sorry for the long post. | ||
Slashiepie
107 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Pressing the Macro CGs are the number 1 and 2 most frequently issued commands. Why would you want them off the home row? | ||
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:57 Doomstar1 wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey Jak and others, I have a small update on my progress with the Core and was looking for a few suggestions with continuing problems. My APM has finally gotten higher than before switching to Core, and I no longer miss any drone building timings, also I reinforce much quicker now and tend to remember to build units more using the core, but a few new problems have arisen and until I get way more used to using cameras (or decide to bypass them all together) I need a better/ more reliable way to check on injects without taking me out of battle. During the early game I can get my BO and drone/overlord timings pretty near perfect, but I start missing multiple larva injects mid-late game. One big reason is that I cannot personally afford to switch cams to look at the progress bar is that I throw away too many skirmishes and big battles when looking away, but with the core I am still able to effectively drone or build units and add to one or two control groups while microing in small exchanges so long as I don't go through camera groups, I'd like pointers on adding to this strength by finding a better rhythm for checking injects and upgrades, rather than just getting used to using the cameras more, I simply don't think that's a skill I'm quick enough to effectively add in. Through earlyish to mid game I can count to three on larva usage (individual larva spawns) but this creates a 5 second delay on each inject, and as battles go I lose track of my internal count of 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. inject. I need something that I can instinctively tap over to see a progress bar for a hatchery like I do with p .. o to check non-injected larva, so that I can check and inject everything once that larva pops. I think I may need to switch back to the base cam inject as well, camera injecting finally works mechancally for me for the first three bases, but I have yet to successfully incorporate cameras 4-6 as part of my pattern, moreover, I'm not getting any useful information from the camera switching over base cams. Aside from K, which I always know is my main base, and which usually allows me to check on some progress bars for upgrades, I still don't identify a specific cam with a specific base, as sometimes I need to move bases from my initial plans for bases or ninja expand if I notice my opponent isn't scouting. Also, I noticed that double tapping P brings you automatically to the newest created hatch, which is generally the only one I need to drone up on manually, limiting my need to specifically choose which base to go to. At this point in my game, I'm simply not a good enough player to select the cam I need to get to the base I want to go to and use that button combination of shift + cam key; it's quicker for me (mentally) to click the mini map or cycle base cams. I was thinking of keeping base cam K for the main base, and either making one more base cam L for either my ninja expand or forward base and doing that consistently to build muscle memory and instinct, and using Shift + ; as the new base cam, but wondered if anyone who uses base cams has a more effective combo. I also need something more effective for my free cams, switching between Shift + key for base cams to Control + key for free cams is certainly useful for creep spreading mechanically, but mentally I can't get past that switch quickly and it's starting to make me create new bad habits, like mainly missing my creep spread. I finally was able to do better with my upgrades progress by using ] as a CG for my upgrades. I think putting only one hatch on ] would help me to check injects, but then I would probably slip on upgrades again. I also need to do something to check upgrades for one time unilike Roach speed, Hydra speed, etc.) because I'm not putting them in control groups, and when I put them in my ] CG with upgrades there were just way too many taps to get through (I use that for just Evo chambers and Spires). My most common problems are missing unit upgrades, and not using enough control groups. I make great use of P and Shift P for queens and all hatches, while L is easy for me to hit, and I'm usually able to incorporate ; as well for units, but beyond those two army groups I'm having trouble reaching the other CG keys quickly enough to be effective and have regressed back to using the All army command more often than I'd like. I sometimes use 9 and 0 for air units once I get into muta/corrupter play, but usually screw up when I need to get Brood Lords in there as the - key just doesn't feel as natural. Not sure if this will come to me or not. Sometimes I don't go air and need 9 and 0 for two baneling groups, or two harass groups, which screws me up in the transition to air later, other control groups feel unusual for me to assign which is why I'm not using them often enough yet. What I would like to do is create a specific pattern to go from my army, to injecting all hatches, to then back to the army. I'm good with Shift + P then O to get ready to inject, maybe with shift + ; as the base cam I can go through those quickly enough along with a Rapid Fire button, and then double tap ;; to get back to that army control group, but I would imagine there is a quicker way to cycle that. I know that if I use U as the rapid fire in this set up, the hand placement is a little weird and makes the double tap on ;; a little more odd, so I'm not sure if there is a better way to work around. What I would ideally like to do is my shift + p + o for queens and inject followed by pressing and holding two keys for a second (base cam and rapid fire) to quickly inject everything, then have the easiest transition on my hands to go immediately back to the army either as a screen, or as the control group in the fray. Also, with taking out Base cameras 4-6 which I honestly just do not and probably will never use, will that free up combos that work better for control groups? I'm asking here from anyone that uses the Base cam and found something better to do with the options left in 9 0 and -. Maybe finding a way to incorporate shift + 9, 0, - will allow me to keep air and harass groups in the same area and reinforce muscle memory and instinct. Thanks for any tips and sorry for the long post. 1. Regarding checking your injects, there are many ways to do this without using cameras. I have found these to be most efficient so far: Hotkey a hatchery for the beginning stages of the game to check the inject timer. You do not need to be as on top of your injects late game when you need that CG for units. Read more about this here. 2. Click on your hatchery in the wireframe to see the inject progress. This may seems awkward at first, but becomes easy and 2nd nature with practice. 3. hover over the queens to check their energy. This only works if your injects are perfect. When they start slipping you can easily use #2 or #1 as backups. For Cameras, you can use the base locations on the map instead of the order you take them. So the top right position in Belshir Vestige is always my "3rd" base even if I take it 4th. It is much more useful to have these cameras bound to a location on the map rather than moving depending on strategy. The rest of your problems can be solved by deliberate practice. 2x1hr sessions for 2 days will get you your cameras feeling "natural" If you take the mass game approach to hotkeys, the lesser used ones will always be lagging behind. Find your weak points, and practice nothing but reacting to phantom drops for the time I listed above and you'll be loving the camera keys. A lot of this stuff isn't going to just come to you for a long time. Better to get right at the problem area, focus it down for a couple of days, and move on with another trick in your bag. | ||
kingneckbeard
United States24 Posts
On July 30 2013 04:32 JaKaTaK wrote: This is a matter of importance: We need to find the default vaules for all the commands in the game and get them into TheCoreSeed.ini. There are a shit ton of campaign keys in there that are difficult to hunt down, but a lot of them are just time consuming to find and be sure are correct. It is very important that these keys are accurate, otherwise the versions we push out will be incorrect, and it might cause unbound keys as well. The format of this file is as follows: nameofhotkey = 1|2|3|4|5 1 is PLM 2 is TLM 3 is RLM 4 is ZLM 5 is Standard (for right-handed mouse users) If 1-4 are all the same it will look like this: nameofhotkey = 1|2 1 is xLM 2 is Standard We need to find the keys that don't have the part filled in for standard and figure out what they are. To anyone else that doesn't understand what he's talking about, I found the following from the README on github to be helpful. 1. TheCoreSeed.ini - The single file used to generate all layouts of TheCore. It is structured very similarly to a .SC2Hotkeys file, with some notable exceptions. Each line can take on 1 of 3 forms. P, T, R, and Z stand for Protoss, Terran, Random, and Zerg, and indicate the key used in the left-handed, medium size layout of TheCore. D stands for the Standard default key used for a command. The line formats are: a. CommandName=P|T|R|Z|D b. CommandName=SharedKey|D (if the keys are the same for each race, don't list them 4 times, just list them once) c. CommandName=CommandNameToCopy (useful for campaign keys, this means the keys will be copied from another command) So it sounds like we are looking for lines of the form (where x can be any character/keycombo and commandname is something that a hotkey has to exist for) CommandName=x|x|x|x| or CommandName=x| If this is the case, I was able to use notepad++ to get a list of the items in our list that fit this requirement. I've put the full list of keys that need to be found here. Is there a wiki site or something similar that we could use to manage this project? To find these things, start up the campaign, make sure you actually load up the HOTS campaign, then do options->hotkeys, make sure standard is selected, and start poking around. If there is any other way to do this, please let me know. If there is some text file that exists that already has the default keys in it, I could make something to do this automatically without too much effort. Jak -- if there's something I misunderstood about this, let me know and I can tweak the search to find what we're interested in. Also, should we just use the HOTS campaign keys when in question? I glanced through a little, and an example would be that Hire Devil Dogs at the Merc station is L in HOTs but in the Wings campaign it's D. I only ask because some of these (like reaper D8 charge) are wings specific. | ||
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