EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 261
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Czarnodziej
Poland624 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Subject Lines I think bolded subject lines would be super helpful in following certain conversations. It will be difficult to get everyone on board, but I think that would help me a lot (and probably a lot of other people as well) to follow the conversations they are interested in, or at least keep track of who's talking about what. Version/Changelog I will add a date to the version number! Simple and effective, wp gg. @Bee Checking the Progress Bar This is not really necessary in the mid to late game unless you are playing perfectly. Even professionals don't do this (out of the replays I have studied so far). They will click in the wireframe occasionally in the beginning if timings are tight, but anything past early game they just use the white dots and check often. Things you can do to Help If you are interested, and have time to do stuff, people have been asking for a change log for a long time. I have an idea for this, but don't have the hours to make it happen. Also, the work left to redo the document is very straight forward and requires only time. If you are interested in either of these things, send me a PM with your skype info so we can talk  @Czar TheCore Lite TheCore lite is definitely something we've been playing around with for a while. It's mostly a time issue. I want to get TheCore to 1.0 with updated instructional videos, document and a better OP. We are very close and I want to put all the time I have into making that happen asap. After that I think TheCore Lite would definitely be an excellent idea (Chameleon and Darkgrid are a bit outdated and it'd be nice to get everything under one roof). | ||
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Czarnodziej
Poland624 Posts
My layout is super tight, so you gotta work extra hard to beat its effectiveness | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
wait, what? I am confused. | ||
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quonzoran
Germany31 Posts
Just a few thoughts on how to implement rapid fire from a Zerg perspective (ZRM layout). Again, want to mention a post from eneyeseekay (Link) that has done a nice analysis, where rapid fire makes sense for each race, and where it backfires - check it out! (Based my suggestion on this post - maybe we could even ask him, if we can integrate his findings in the Tips&Tricks document) "U" seems best for rapid fire, as creep spread (tumor) and generate tumor (queen) is imo the most powerful application for Zerg. I also like, that "U" is a little harder to hit, so you do not accidently use rapid fire, but make a conscious decision on it. There are some abilities, that sometimes benefit from rapid fire, but in other cases not. Often (when the unit has less than 4 abilities including burrow) this can be solved by having "U" as an alternative key for that ability. So you can choose, whether to rapid fire that ability or have more precise control. My suggestion for each unit:
So, what do you think? Binding "U" as alternative really makes sense, biggest question for me is how to implement Infestors and maybe Queens. | ||
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Czarnodziej
Poland624 Posts
1) My layout is based on your work, so I hope you got couple extra tricks up your sleeve to make it better. 2) Valve and Blizzard are both known for long production cycle of their products. @quonzoran RF on fungal is simply not feasible in Swarm, unlike Wings, where you could spam it to no end. More info on RF usage is nicely presented in here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404476 | ||
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quonzoran
Germany31 Posts
On July 28 2013 19:36 Czarnodziej wrote: @quonzoran RF on fungal is simply not feasible in Swarm, unlike Wings, where you could spam it to no end. I agree! For that reason I chose "Infested Terrans" as rapid-fire-ability for Infestors!  | ||
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Bulgogi
United States60 Posts
Viper: Need to push a key and a click to confirm the ability for Consume for each Viper that is going to Consume. Very useful for RF. Corruptor: You can Corrupt the same target multiple times and the effect will not stack so if you hold the mouse cursor over the same target too long while in RF, it will waste energy. Possibly RF if the enemy units are spread out. Swarm Host: Autocast. Don't need RF. Infestor: Only thing that really belongs as RF is infested terran. Very useful if you don't want to fungal. Overseer: Contamination can only be cast once per overseer. No reason to go mass overseer because it wastes too much gas and it takes a long while for it to accumulate that much energy. Don't need RF. Queen: Creep tumor is on RF but I don't use it as RF because it wastes energy. Energy that can be better used for transfuse. Creep Tumor: I used to RF for creep tumor, but not anymore. It wastes active tumors so it isn't the most efficient way to use them haphazardly. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On July 27 2013 22:29 Beedebdoo wrote: @Smackzilla Great to hear, thank you I've considered using a system that combines the two. Basically, I'd like to bind every facility to O, but give Factories and Starports their own respective CGs. O can check everything, and I can more precisely check with Factory and Starport CG, and build units through them. It's not faster than the current system, it also requires an extra button press for every added Factory and Starport. But it allows for surgical checking in the early-midgame, and consistent unit production, as well as better rally control. Thoughts? Yeah, could be the best of both worlds, and I feel like there are CGs to spare (I'm typically using 4-5 for unit control). Its hard to argue with the rally control being better with 3 CG. The only downside I could imagine is if you are using fact and port CGs more, you might be using the "All" CG less and therefore missing idle buildings a little more. As for checking progress bars in the early game, I feel like it will help in some cases but fail in others. In early TvP, you can easily have 3 buildings and 3 upgrades going at the same time. I still feel like a camera is superior for checking progress bars, at least when things are getting a little complicated. | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
He's clearly doing 3 CG for unit production. What I found interesting, is that I *think* he's watching his progress bars as late at 13:44 game time (start at 9:40 in the youtube video). I don't think he's using a camera to get there, but I think he's double-tapping his rax CG. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I've already developed the Rapid Fire Version of TheCore. Rapid fire doesn't have to be as far out at U! In the current itteration, it is K. Just working out some kinks before I push it out to 0.8 | ||
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quonzoran
Germany31 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On July 28 2013 23:43 Smackzilla wrote: BTW, check this out: First Person View of Innovation He's clearly doing 3 CG for unit production. What I found interesting, is that I *think* he's watching his progress bars as late at 13:44 game time (start at 9:40 in the youtube video). I don't think he's using a camera to get there, but I think he's double-tapping his rax CG. This is definitely interesting evidence, but why does he do it? and why is it better than 2 macro CGs? | ||
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Slashiepie
107 Posts
If you set free Camera I, you cannot Control-Burrow Widow Mines and probably any other unit anymore, since the camera is prioritized over the burrow command. Huge advantage of separate CGS for production that i forgot to mention. You need not stare at the UI to be sure you are building a certain unit. | ||
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Beedebdoo
130 Posts
On July 28 2013 23:02 Smackzilla wrote: I think using more production CGs are kind of like using more army CGs. At first it will be hard to do something as simple as moving your army, but after some practice you'll reap the benefits of much better control.Yeah, could be the best of both worlds, and I feel like there are CGs to spare (I'm typically using 4-5 for unit control). Its hard to argue with the rally control being better with 3 CG. The only downside I could imagine is if you are using fact and port CGs more, you might be using the "All" CG less and therefore missing idle buildings a little more. On July 28 2013 23:02 Smackzilla wrote: I agree. Production cameras can be used on the majority of maps, for most matches, and for the longest time of most matches. It cannot help you when production is spread out (for example for wall-offs). But a 2-button (Ctrl + J/I) 'check freaking everything' is really, really good.As for checking progress bars in the early game, I feel like it will help in some cases but fail in others. In early TvP, you can easily have 3 buildings and 3 upgrades going at the same time. I still feel like a camera is superior for checking progress bars, at least when things are getting a little complicated. I think going about it the way INnoVation does is really good. Moving the main screen is something we want to avoid, and with most of your CGs and APM freed up in the early game that should be no problem. On July 29 2013 02:51 JaKaTaK wrote: It might be that I misunderstand the 2 macro CG method, If it shows in my reasoning below, please let me know.This is definitely interesting evidence, but why does he do it? and why is it better than 2 macro CGs? With 2 macro CGs you react to missing white dots. If the pair of white dots on your reactor Barracks disappear, you react by instantly building 2 new units. Because we're just humans there will be a small delay from when the 2 units we had building pop out to when the 2 new units we want are in production. When we have progress bars to watch this problem doesn't occur, as we can queue the two new units right before the first two finishes. That tiny delay may as well cost a player at INnoVation's level the game in the early stages. On July 29 2013 03:18 Slashiepie wrote: Hmm, I've never done that. I look at the Minimap when I'm pressing the macro buttons, not at what I'm pressing/pressed. You're looking at the Command Card?Huge advantage of separate CGS for production that i forgot to mention. You need not stare at the UI to be sure you are building a certain unit. @Widow Mine Burrow bug On July 29 2013 03:18 Slashiepie wrote: I'm not sure why you would press Ctrl + I to burrow Widow Mines. Maybe to select every Mine on the screen, but the only advantage that has over using the Widow Mine CG is that reinforcements aren't burrowing themselves halfway to the front - if you're binding your reinforcements to CGs before sending them to the front.If you set free Camera I, you cannot Control-Burrow Widow Mines and probably any other unit anymore, since the camera is prioritized over the burrow command. | ||
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Slashiepie
107 Posts
On July 29 2013 04:40 Beedebdoo wrote: @Terran macro CGs @Widow Mine Burrow bug I'm not sure why you would press Ctrl + I to burrow Widow Mines. Maybe to select every Mine on the screen, but the only advantage that has over using the Widow Mine CG is that reinforcements aren't burrowing themselves halfway to the front - if you're binding your reinforcements to CGs before sending them to the front. Widow-Mine drop on the mineral line with insta burrow. Sure you can hotkey the mines prior to loading them, but after seeing pros do it with ctrl i stopped doing it | ||
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teuthida
United States104 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On July 29 2013 03:18 Slashiepie wrote: Huge advantage of separate CGS for production that i forgot to mention. You need not stare at the UI to be sure you are building a certain unit. The issue with not looking in the wireframe is that you don't get a sense of which queues have 2 or 1, and which structures are producing and which ones aren't. I don't think blind making units is best. The advantage is speed, but I feel like you lose some control and probably over-queue as a result. EDIT: and what is this CTRL + [i] business? I have no idea what you are talking about. | ||
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teuthida
United States104 Posts
On July 29 2013 13:15 JaKaTaK wrote: The issue with not looking in the wireframe is that you don't get a sense of which queues have 2 or 1, and which structures are producing and which ones aren't. I don't think blind making units is best. The advantage is speed, but I feel like you lose some control and probably over-queue as a result. EDIT: and what is this CTRL + [i] business? I have no idea what you are talking about. I mean the free cam that is set to i in TRM (unless this has changed very recently). It recalls with ctrl-i which I sometimes accidentally hit with going for shift-i when I want to queues abilities on that key. EDIT: Sorry jak, though you were talking to me, I see now you were referring to Beedebdoo | ||
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Beedebdoo
130 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:24 Slashiepie wrote: Ouch, that's a valid concern. I don't always bind the units I'm dropping with either. But I don't see it being important enough to forsake a free cam, or the burrow button. I think having an alternative Burrow binding just for this particular trick would be best.Widow-Mine drop on the mineral line with insta burrow. Sure you can hotkey the mines prior to loading them, but after seeing pros do it with ctrl i stopped doing it On July 29 2013 13:15 JaKaTaK wrote: When doing a Mine drop, there are a number of ways to burrow Widow Mines as they drop: EDIT: and what is this CTRL + [i] business? I have no idea what you are talking about.
On July 29 2013 07:17 teuthida wrote: Have you tried a different keyboard angle / Popping out the key left to Ctrl right below Shift / A different keyboard? / Slighty lifting the thumb end of your wrist if your keyboard don't have a wide Shift button?I stopped using the camera on I cause I would always accidentally bump ctrl when trying to do shift-I commands (move then siege, move then burrow, etc) and the camera would jump way out of position. Edit: @TheCore tricks On July 27 2013 19:12 quonzoran wrote: Added a trick for hotkey larva eggs. If you want, you can check it out: TheCore Tricks Document Happy about feedback - did I miss somehting, is it helpful or needs rewriting?
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