EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 16
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Ctrl+Abl = ??? Ctrl+CG = set CG Shift+Abl = CANNOT BE USED (shift queue orders) Shift+CG = add to CG Alt+Abl = Set Cam Alt+CG = Set Cam Ctrl+Shift+Abl = Recall Cam Ctrl+Shift+CG = Recall Cam Alt+Next Subgroup = Set Cam Ctrl+Next Subgroup = Recall Cam Ctrl+Shift+Next Subgroup = ??? (alternate recall for now) Ctrl+Alt and Shift+Alt take too long and are not ergonomic enough in comparison to most reaches and are therefore not included Looks like we found another Cam. Alt+"-" to set, Ctrl+"-" to recall. A bit uncomfortable though... maybe we could move the next subgroup button to make it easier for that cam. Maybe we could move next subgroup to "... | ||
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asdir
Germany39 Posts
The sole single modifier left for IJK is Ctrl, so I tried it with them. Ctrl plus any of IJK can be used for camera recall. They just can't be set with Shift+IJK. However, in the case of the Xel'Naga towers I'd say that's perfectly fine. Just set cams in the beginning of the game (with Ctrl plus any of =7') when you don't have anything else to do anyway. Then forget about those keys and just remember "Tower1 is on Ctrl+J, Tower 2 is on Ctrl+I". I've never played with cams for XN-towers, but since they are static resetting should not be an issue. The cams on "next subgroup" then probably should be the army-rally cam or sth. similar, I guess. (Done on RRM + mouse) I'll check the changelog for updating the German version (as a general rule, I will try to update to the latest version, but only after changelog is updated). Feels greats helping out. I just love that you guys do this! :-D | ||
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Nurfie
Sweden24 Posts
Is there an option to change this to regular Alt, and only for starcraft? Or am I misunderstanding something else? edit: seems like it doesnt matter, it still creates the camera locations. It does seem like trying to recall a camera location without having it set will cause to to overwrite the control group though, so I guess setting them all to your first hatch at the start is mandatory | ||
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Quaterno
United Kingdom69 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:29 Nurfie wrote: I'm trying the right handed no mouse layout and I must have missed something because on the right side of my spacebar is the "Alt Gr" button (which acts as Alt + Control). Is there an option to change this to regular Alt, and only for starcraft? Or am I misunderstanding something else? edit: seems like it doesnt matter, it still creates the camera locations. It does seem like trying to recall a camera location without having it set will cause to to overwrite the control group though, so I guess setting them all to your first hatch at the start is mandatory I don't know about only for starcraft but a quick google search found this (SharpKeys). It's a registry hack that just changes key inputs to act like other inputs. I hadn't thought of this before you said that and realised that's why I might have been seeing weird things happening. I used this and it's turned my AltGr into Alt. If you try and tell it what key you're using by pressing AltGr the program says it doesn't know what it is but, at least for all the people who were talking about it where I found it, it works if you just map right alt to left alt with that program. Like I said I'm not sure how to do it just for starcraft unless maybe you have a fancy keyboard but this program worked for me  | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
@Nurfie I set all my cameras in the beginning of the game, its easy because I don't have anything else to do at that point. It is definitely a good thing to do when using this layout, if not necessary. @Quaterno Keep in mind that registry hacks like sharpkeys are considered 3rd party programs and are not allowed in tournaments (and may be against the EULA for Sc2) Take care when using these tools. | ||
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asdir
Germany39 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:29 Nurfie wrote: I'm trying the right handed no mouse layout and I must have missed something because on the right side of my spacebar is the "Alt Gr" button (which acts as Alt + Control). Is there an option to change this to regular Alt, and only for starcraft? Or am I misunderstanding something else? edit: seems like it doesnt matter, it still creates the camera locations. It does seem like trying to recall a camera location without having it set will cause to to overwrite the control group though, so I guess setting them all to your first hatch at the start is mandatory This is actually quite strange: German keyboards also have AltGr where Americans have Alt, but I just tested and don't have that issue. Although the in-game hotkey setup recognizes the key as Alt+Ctrl, it does not seem to work as Ctrl in the game itself. Weird. I am afraid of the day someone with a kyrillic keyboard or something like that comes into this thread. :-D | ||
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idLiGHT
United States1 Post
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
I think there might also be a slightly steeper learning curve for that aspect if you are terran which is a bit more demanding when it comes to micro and multitasking. Despite being noticeably clumsy still the switch has been 100% worth it so far. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On June 13 2012 04:24 idLiGHT wrote: How to you put the control groups on the mouse? The same way you set any other hotkey. Hit the mouse button when the game is asking you for the button. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On June 13 2012 06:17 VanGarde wrote: Well I am not able to beat people on the ladder at my previous rank again and it did not take that long to transition to be honest. It has been about It has been a week since I switched but I have played extremely little each day, if I had really focused and grinded out games I could have done it in 3 days no problem. The thing that is still missing is multitasking and army control which you only get crisp by playing many many games. I lose to way worse players because I don't control my army quickly or precisely enough. I think there might also be a slightly steeper learning curve for that aspect if you are terran which is a bit more demanding when it comes to micro and multitasking. Despite being noticeably clumsy still the switch has been 100% worth it so far. In my opinion, the more you have to work to play at your fullest potential, the better you'll be once you're finished.  The control groups being right next to the base keys really helps control your army quickly and efficiently. My first statement also goes with absolutely horrid hotkey layouts, actually. You can think of it as weighted gloves. | ||
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bgalang92
United States155 Posts
Update on my own play, I'm finally playing in my own league again Masters, sat around 700 pts before the switch. Tense situations force me to think about certain key switches, and coming from the warpin hotkey, I have a terrible habit of adding my production buildings to my army hotkey, but besides that, things are going good. =D With reassign my camera keys I just thought that CTRL+"-" to set and SHIFT +"-" would be more comfortable. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Doomaflatchi
United States5 Posts
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cchily13
70 Posts
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zeroISM
Japan161 Posts
For example, I don't know if I should use my ring finger to press M , and . and also if I should use my thumb or my index to hit / I feel very clumsy while playing with this but I just need more training. Injecting feels a lot faster than my old method 55v*click* 66v*click* 77v*click* Also, any recommendations for creep spreading? | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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Tzuborg
Norway171 Posts
I also changed siege tank's tank mode command to K. Having it on / is a little unpractical when shift queueing. EDIT: Actually, I changed that back. Wasn't ideal at K either EDIT2: I've also set location 8 to space. Seems slightly more comfortable than B. | ||
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emaster
United States32 Posts
But this was only the start. LiquidTyler (now back to NonY) broke both our minds out of the box. He said on State of the Game that he moved everything to the left side of the keyboard. Once the box was broken, we ran with it. I hope you know that your layout has everything on the right side of the board, and that quote literally has nothing to do with your layout. Literally (well almost) every single layout ever proposed has everything on the left side of the keyboard, until now. You are the only ones i've seen NOT do this. In a way, you do the opposite he proposes, but also in a way, you follow it by having everything on the SAME side, not the left, but that was something you always would have done regardless of anything said on state of the game. You already knew that when you did darkgrid, and you already knew that when you did jakatak righty. Everyone already complained of immotal being on 'I' and stuff like that. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I've played 30-40 games on each race, and this hasn't bothered me at all, but I do understand what you are saying. That is exactly what I did with Chameleon. I've gone back and forth on which way to do this. Thanks for your input. @cchilly13 You can catch my Stream occasionally during the day where I take questions TheCore and about the improvement program I use/teach. Every day at 00:00 GMT (+00:00) I do a show called TheJaKaTaK which is dedicated to helping new players improve for 1-2 hours and I'm always down to take questions (especially in the 2nd hour of the show) Hope that helps cchilly13  @zeroISM If you look at the Development Document All of the keys are listed with their difficulty ratings and which finger we found to be best to press with @Tzuborg Tank mode or siege mode should not be on / If it is that is absolutely a mistake. Shift clicking tanks is really effective and should be very easy to do. I'll take a look at this. @emaster I think you are missing the point. NonY opened our minds to the idea of completely redesigning the way we use the keyboard in Starcraft 2. The idea of challenging the way that things are normally done. Like which side of the keyboard to use. It was coincidentally the same moment when the two of us got the spark to start designing custom layouts and thought it was sort of funny that it turned out that way. If I hadn't watched that episode of SotG I probably wouldn't have started thinking about custom layouts until Tasteless and Artosis said on the GSL that they were going to make a video about it. In any case, we just wanted to share that story with everyone :D | ||
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