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On June 11 2012 02:50 Thehummel wrote:
I got some noob questions as a new user of custom keybindings..
1) On the layouts there is text indicating that a hatch is on P, is that something i have to bind every time at the start ( Like the standard ) Or is that pre-binded?
2) Will the normal TheCore download work on a nordic keyboard?
This looks quite awesome, cant wait to try it!
Yup (at least for the swedish keyboard, it should work for a danish one aswell)!
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/317055/theCore RRM Mouse Nordic.SC2Hotkeys
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Is that with mouse or non-mouse?
Thanks though!
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does anyone uses this layout with a steelseries 6gv2? this is my first mechanical keyboard i will get the next 1-2 days, but the right shift key seems not that big on the pictures. so you guys have problems hitting the shift+ctr key with the thumb on this keyboard?
thanks for anyone who can help
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On June 11 2012 05:55 ksert wrote:
does anyone uses this layout with a steelseries 6gv2? this is my first mechanical keyboard i will get the next 1-2 days, but the right shift key seems not that big on the pictures. so you guys have problems hitting the shift+ctr key with the thumb on this keyboard?
thanks for anyone who can help
I think the difficulty that might be a small issue is pressing the shift key by itself, but after looking at the keyboard, it doesn't seem like it would be too big of a problem. Actually, it might just make it easier to press the . button with your thumb :D
Looking forward to your test results, it is a very popular keyboard and I really want to see how it works out. Thanks :D
everybody is argueing with me here , because I wrote in my first post that I like darkgrid better
im curious as to how many people here actually think the new layout is comfortable and an improvement
maybe i'm an excepction, so what, I won't use it, I can still state my opinion that I don't like it
This thread exists for constructive criticism. Stating your opinion that "you don't like it" with reasons like the ones you gave is not helping us to make TheCore a better layout. Basically what you're looking for is an optimized version of Darkgrid, which will likely be coming out (or you can do it yourself via the data provided).
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I imagine it would be even easier to use the steelseries for this layout, like Jak said, the "." key looks SO much easier to press, right now it's my biggest complaint with the otherwise amazing layout.
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Did a norwegian adaption myself as Sickans swedish version had some issues for me.
RRM no mouse norwegian version:
Open your hotkey file in notepad and replace content with everything inside this spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +
[Settings]
AllowSetConflicts=1
Suffix=_NRS
[Hotkeys]
Music=F2
Sound=Control+F
PTT=Backspace
ChatAll=Shift+Enter
ChatAllies=Tab
ChatCancel=F8
ChatDefault=Enter
ChatRecipient=Control+Enter
DialogDismiss=F8
MenuAchievements=F3
MenuGame=F9,Escape
MenuMessages=F4
MenuHelp=F1
ObserveClearSelection=F8,Escape
CinematicSkip=F8,Escape
CameraCenter=Alt
ControlGroupAppend0=Shift+Apostrophe
ControlGroupAppend1=Shift+9
ControlGroupAppend2=Shift+0
ControlGroupAppend3=Shift+BracketOpen
ControlGroupAppend4=Shift+O
ControlGroupAppend5=Shift+P
ControlGroupAppend6=Shift+BracketClose
ControlGroupAppend7=Shift+SemiColon
ControlGroupAppend8=Shift+L
ControlGroupAppend9=Shift+Grave
ControlGroupAssign0=Control+Apostrophe
ControlGroupAssign1=Control+9
ControlGroupAssign2=Control+0
ControlGroupAssign3=Control+BracketOpen
ControlGroupAssign4=Control+O
ControlGroupAssign5=Control+P
ControlGroupAssign6=Control+BracketClose
ControlGroupAssign7=Control+SemiColon
ControlGroupAssign8=Control+L
ControlGroupAssign9=Control+Grave
ControlGroupRecall0=Apostrophe
ControlGroupRecall1=9
ControlGroupRecall2=0
ControlGroupRecall3=BracketOpen
ControlGroupRecall4=O
ControlGroupRecall5=P
ControlGroupRecall6=BracketClose
ControlGroupRecall7=SemiColon
ControlGroupRecall8=L
ControlGroupRecall9=Grave
GameTooltipsOn=Control+A
IdleWorker=Y
MinimapColors=F7
MinimapPing=F6
SelectionCancelDrag=F8,Escape
StatusAll=Control+Slash
StatusOwner=Alt+F1
SubgroupNext=Equals
SubgroupPrev=Shift+Equals
TeamResources=BackSlash
TownCamera=F5
WarpIn=6
CameraSave0=Alt+I
CameraSave1=Alt+O
CameraSave2=Alt+P
CameraSave3=Alt+Grave
CameraSave4=Alt+J
CameraSave5=Shift+N
CameraSave6=Shift+7
CameraSave7=Shift+B
CameraView0=Control+Shift+I
CameraView1=Control+Shift+O
CameraView2=Control+Shift+P
CameraView3=Control+Shift+Grave
CameraView4=Control+Shift+J
CameraView5=N
CameraView6=7
CameraView7=B
[Commands]
AWrp=Minus
AnionPulseCrystals/FleetBeacon=J
ArchonHallucination/Sentry=H
Armory/SCV=K
AssaultMode=I
Assimilator/Probe=K
Attack=J
AutoTurret/Raven=I
Baneling/Zergling=I
BanelingNest/Drone=Comma
Banshee/Starport=M
Barracks/SCV=J
Battlecruiser/Starport=U
Blink/Stalker=I
BroodLord/Corruptor=I
BuildCreepTumor/Queen=K
BuildTechLabFactory/FactoryFlying=Period
BuildTechLabStarport/StarportFlying=Period
BunkerLoad=Minus
BunkerUnloadAll=K
BurrowDown=8
BurrowUp=8
CalldownMULE/OrbitalCommand=J
Cancel=F8
Carrier/Stargate=Minus
Charge/Zealot=I
CloakOff=Period
CloakOnBanshee=K
Colossus/RoboticsFacility=I
ColossusHallucination/Sentry=J
CommandCenter/SCV=M
CommandCenterLoad=Period
CommandCenterUnloadAll=8
Contaminate/Overseer=Minus
CorruptionAbility/Corruptor=Minus
Corruptor/Larva=H
CyberneticsCore/Probe=U
DarkShrine/Probe=U
DarkTemplar=Period
DisableBuildingAttack/Baneling=Minus
Drone/Larva=J
EMP/Ghost=I
EnableBuildingAttack/Baneling=I
EngineeringBay/SCV=8
EvolutionChamber/Drone=M
EvolveCentrificalHooks/BanelingNest=I
EvolveChitinousPlating/UltraliskCavern=I
EvolveGlialRegeneration/RoachWarren=I
EvolveInfestorEnergyUpgrade/InfestationPit=I
EvolveTunnelingClaws/RoachWarren=J
EvolveVentralSacks=Period
Explode/Baneling=Period
Explode/BanelingBurrowed=Period
Extractor/Drone=I
Factory/SCV=I
Feedback/HighTemplar=K
FighterMode=Minus
FleetBeacon/Probe=8
Forge/Probe=8
FungalGrowth/Infestor=Minus
FusionCore/SCV=H
Gateway/Probe=J
GatherProt=Z
GenerateCreep/Overlord=Period
Ghost/Barracks=M
GhostAcademy/SCV=M
GhostHoldFire/Ghost=Comma
GreaterSpire/Spire=J
GuardianShield/Sentry=K
Hallucination/Sentry=Minus
Halt=8
Hatchery/Drone=K
Heal/Medivac=Period
Hellion/Factory=J
HighTemplar=M
HighTemplarHallucination/Sentry=U
Hive/Lair=Minus
HunterSeekerMissile/Raven=K
Hydralisk/Larva=U
HydraliskDen/Drone=K
Immortal/RoboticsFacility=J
ImmortalHallucination/Sentry=K
InfestationPit/Drone=J
Infestor/Larva=Period
Lair/Hatchery=Minus
Land=Minus
Larva=I
Lift=Minus
Lower/SupplyDepot=I
Marauder/Barracks=J
Marine/Barracks=I
MassRecall/Mothership=K
Medivac/Starport=I
MissileTurret/SCV=H
MorphBackToGateway/WarpGate=Z
MorphMorphalisk/Queen=I
MorphToOverseer/Overlord=I
Mothership/Nexus=Minus
Move=Q
MoveHoldPosition=M
MovePatrol=U
NeuralParasite/Infestor=K
Nexus/Probe=H
NukeArm/GhostAcademy=J
NukeCalldown/Ghost=8
NydusNetwork/Drone=H
Observer/RoboticsFacility=Minus
OrbitalCommand/CommandCenter=J
Overlord/Larva=I
Phoenix/Stargate=I
PhoenixHallucination/Sentry=I
PhotonCannon/Probe=M
PointDefenseDrone/Raven=Minus
Probe/Nexus=I
ProbeHallucination/Sentry=Comma
ProtossAirArmorLevel1/CyberneticsCore=K
ProtossAirWeaponsLevel1/CyberneticsCore=I
ProtossBuild/Probe=Minus
ProtossBuildAdvanced/Probe=Period
ProtossGroundArmorLevel1/Forge=J
ProtossGroundWeaponsLevel1/Forge=I
ProtossShieldsLevel1/Forge=Minus
Pylon/Probe=I
Queen=J
Raise/SupplyDepotLowered=I
Rally=X
RallyEgg=Q
Raven/Starport=H
Reactor/Barracks=K
Reactor/BarracksFlying=K
Reactor/Factory=K
Reactor/FactoryFlying=K
Reactor/Starport=K
Reactor/StarportFlying=K
Reaper/Barracks=H
ReaperSpeed/BarracksTechLab=K
Refinery/SCV=K
Repair=K
ResearchBansheeCloak/StarportTechLab=I
ResearchBattlecruiserEnergyUpgrade/FusionCore=J
ResearchBattlecruiserSpecializations/FusionCore=I
ResearchBurrow=K
ResearchCharge/TwilightCouncil=J
ResearchDurableMaterials/StarportTechLab=Minus
ResearchExtendedThermalLance/RoboticsBay=I
ResearchGhostEnergyUpgrade/GhostAcademy=Minus
ResearchGraviticBooster/RoboticsBay=Minus
ResearchGraviticDrive/RoboticsBay=J
ResearchHallucination/CyberneticsCore=J
ResearchHiSecAutoTracking/EngineeringBay=K
ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab=J
ResearchInterceptorLaunchSpeedUpgrade/FleetBeacon=I
ResearchMedivacEnergyUpgrade/StarportTechLab=J
ResearchNeosteelFrame/EngineeringBay=M
ResearchNeuralParasite/InfestationPit=J
ResearchPersonalCloaking/GhostAcademy=I
ResearchPunisherGrenades/BarracksTechLab=Minus
ResearchRavenEnergyUpgrade/StarportTechLab=K
ResearchSeekerMissile/StarportTechLab=M
ResearchShieldWall/BarracksTechLab=J
ResearchSiegeTech/FactoryTechLab=I
ResearchStalkerTeleport/TwilightCouncil=I
ResearchStrikeCannons/FactoryTechLab=Minus
ResearchWarpGate/CyberneticsCore=Minus
ReturnCargo=I
RoachWarren/Drone=8
RoboticsBay/Probe=M
RoboticsFacility/Probe=I
SCV=I
Salvage/Bunker=M
Scan/OrbitalCommand=K
SelectBuilder=Comma
SensorTower/SCV=Comma
Sentry=K
SetBunkerRallyPoint/Bunker=X
Snipe/Ghost=Minus
SpawnChangeling/Overseer=I
SpawningPool/Drone=U
SpineCrawler/Drone=J
SpineCrawlerRoot/SpineCrawlerUprooted=I
SpineCrawlerUproot/SpineCrawler=I
Spire/Drone=I
SporeCrawler/Drone=H
SporeCrawlerRoot/SporeCrawlerUprooted=I
SporeCrawlerUproot/SporeCrawler=I
Stalker=J
StalkerHallucination/Sentry=8
Stargate/Probe=J
Starport/SCV=J
Stimpack/BarracksTechLab=I
Stop=H
StopGenerateCreep/Overlord=8
StopPlanetaryFortress/PlanetaryFortress=H
SummonNydusWorm/NydusNetwork=I
SupplyDepot/SCV=I
SupplyDrop/OrbitalCommand=M
TechLabBarracks/Barracks=Period
TechLabBarracks/BarracksFlying=Period
TechLabFactory/Factory=Period
TechLabStarport/Starport=Period
TemplarArchive/Probe=H
TerranBuild/SCV=Minus
TerranBuildAdvanced/SCV=Period
TerranInfantryArmorLevel1/EngineeringBay=J
TerranShipPlatingLevel1/Armory=K
TerranShipWeaponsLevel1/Armory=J
TerranVehiclePlatingLevel1/Armory=Minus
TerranVehicleWeaponsLevel1/Armory=I
Thor/Factory=M
TimeWarp/Nexus=J
Transfusion/Queen=Minus
TransportMode/WarpPrism=Period
TwilightCouncil/Probe=K
Ultralisk/Larva=8
UltraliskCavern/Drone=M
Unsiege=Minus
UpgradeBuildingArmorLevel1/EngineeringBay=Minus
UpgradeToPlanetaryFortress/CommandCenter=K
UpgradeToWarpGate/Gateway=Minus
VikingFighter/Starport=J
VoidRay/Stargate=J
VoidRayHallucination/Sentry=M
WarpPrism/RoboticsFacility=K
WeaponsFree/Ghost=Comma
YamatoGun=I
Zealot=I
ZealotHallucination/Sentry=Period
ZergBuild/Drone=Minus
ZergBuildAdvanced/Drone=Period
Zergling/Larva=Minus
hydraliskspeed/HydraliskDen=I
overlordspeed=M
zergflyerarmor1=Minus
zergflyerattack1=I
zerggroundarmor1/EvolutionChamber=I
zerglingattackspeed/SpawningPool=J
zerglingmovementspeed/SpawningPool=I
zergmeleeweapons1/EvolutionChamber=J
zergmissileweapons1/EvolutionChamber=Minus
EDIT: Just noticed one of the location keys is off, and some updates are not included. Will be fixed in a few minutes.
EDIT 2: Alright, it should be up to date with the 0.2 version.
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On June 11 2012 07:22 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 05:55 ksert wrote:
does anyone uses this layout with a steelseries 6gv2? this is my first mechanical keyboard i will get the next 1-2 days, but the right shift key seems not that big on the pictures. so you guys have problems hitting the shift+ctr key with the thumb on this keyboard?
thanks for anyone who can help I think the difficulty that might be a small issue is pressing the shift key by itself, but after looking at the keyboard, it doesn't seem like it would be too big of a problem. Actually, it might just make it easier to press the . button with your thumb :D Looking forward to your test results, it is a very popular keyboard and I really want to see how it works out. Thanks :D I have been trying it out on a 6gv2 and like you say it is challenging to hit shift on its own without hitting something else. The extra key gets in the way, enough that I am tempted to remove it if it's not too important. It is bound to a control group but it doesn't seem to be listed in the keyboard picture or data page (zerg, no mouse buttons).
In general I like the layout; it definitely improves the speed with which I can perform most tasks. The only exception is Queen injects (and camera hotkeys). I've done plenty of practise with the Core but I was faster on standard. Pressing control and shift together requires quite a deliberate effort from the thumb - I am not convinced it is optimal but I will stick with it since everything else is so good.
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@JaKaTaK
A few questions/suggestions:
Couldn't space be used for something more important? It's a fairly easy key to hit, and do people actually use "jump to last alert"?
Regarding your reasoning behind the no repetitive clicks principle, don't you think a double click might in some cases be better for building structures? E.g. pressing double - seems more comfortable than - + M. (I guess it's / + M on american keyboards)
And isn't it better to create location keys with ctrl + shift + key and jump to location with alt + key, instead of the opposite?
Also, are ghost's "hold fire" and "weapons free" abilities supposed to share the same key?
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@Tzuborg, Thanks for making a norwegian layout! It is faster, and puts less strain on the fingers, to press a key combination with 2 fingers than with the same finger. I agree that at some point it would become slower, but I did not find any examples of this in TheCore. /+m is faster than /+/ IMO.
@barrykp, / is an ability key, not a control group. It is used for a metric shit ton of commands. Thanks for the faith with the inject method. Very much appreciated :D
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Wow, this looks fantastic. Thanks so much for the hard work and research you've put into this.
To help develop your muscle memory and increase the tactility of your setup it would be cool to buy a couple of custom printed keycaps. You can get printing on the keys that have the plastic line (like on the 'F' and 'J' keys).
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/printed-keycap.html - You would want the 1x1 Row 2 "Line" or "Dot" keys.
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United Arab Emirates9 Posts
This is way harder to learn than the last layout. Been praciting with it for a week, and I'm still fumbling the keys up constantly. Mostly it's hard to just macro with my pinky/ring finger. Being off just a tiny bit and I completely FUBAR my control groups/cameras. Not that I won't get better at all, but progress is slow.
Couple things I re hotkeyed (im using the "right hind no 4/5 mouse button" layout), firstly I put warp in on space bar its just way easier to hit. I got rid of the shift for camera hot keys, it just seems redundant to me. I switched overlord and drone, mostly because queen and drone would be the same hotkey and it's just too easy to make accidental queens when you have no larva. Other than that I'm happy with how its set up.
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I have a question. I'm using right-handed mouse with no 4th/5th buttons, and I play Terran. (Actually, I have one of those annoying one-button Mac mouses that Apple seems to like for some reason. Promise I'll get a new one once I'm good enough that it matters. On the upside, I don't have a Windows key to remove.)
I'd like to know why Set Rally Point is located on the other side of my keyboard on the X button. This is a fairly important key, one I have to press basically every time I set up new production buildings--so why do I have to reach to the other side of the keyboard to hit it? Where's a good place to rebind it?
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Been playing with it for about 30 games. From a high master toss perspective, right hand layout no mouse button, tabbing thru production facilites really sucks. say my SG and robo are built in different locations. In order to chronoboost I would need to either camera key those locations seperatly, which defeats the purpose, or find them manually. IMO all production on one key for toss just doesnt make sense at all.
I have been playing around with it and atm im using 1 of my mouse buttons for nexus and some of the harrass keys for robo and stargate. P for stalkers because that is the unit I will be most mobile with and thus use the most and "o" for main army because 9 just sucked IMO. Main army meaning everything that isint stalkers and templar. I dont need a seperate key for main army when all of my groups are hotkeyed. It just means I would be assigning 2 hotkeys whenever I build a unit. My gates are on [ Which i think i might change to warpin hotkey cuz i have never hotkeyed my gates because i used to hit W
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On June 11 2012 14:02 BronzeVirus wrote:
I'd like to know why Set Rally Point is located on the other side of my keyboard on the X button. This is a fairly important key, one I have to press basically every time I set up new production buildings--so why do I have to reach to the other side of the keyboard to hit it? Where's a good place to rebind it?
When you have a production building selected, right click functions as set rally point so you don't need to press the actual key at all. Just right click where you want your rally point. This works for all buildings (even bunkers I think?)
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On June 03 2012 06:50 JaKaTaK wrote:"The time has come to choose between what is right, and what is easy."
Because what Nestea, MC and MVP have been doing is blatantly wrong and clearly the reason why they'll never win the GSL or ever have any scrap of success.
Oh wait.
While some of the Blizzard hotkeys are veritably ridiculous, I don't see the point of spending 40-60 games you could work on improving for the sake of learning a setup, especially when some of the most important aspects of the game are mechanics and proper response; higher APM doesn't mean anything if you aren't using those actions to do the right things. I'm curious if any pros or semi-pros adopt this since it just seems like an unnecessary extreme. Well, to be fair, it is.
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On June 11 2012 14:10 udai wrote:
Been playing with it for about 30 games. From a high master toss perspective, right hand layout no mouse button, tabbing thru production facilites really sucks. say my SG and robo are built in different locations. In order to chronoboost I would need to either camera key those locations seperatly, which defeats the purpose, or find them manually. IMO all production on one key for toss just doesnt make sense at all.
Not that it should bother me as a zerg, but I was wondering as well: Jakatak/Foxy, what was your reasoning for prefering tabbed production? In other discussions it seems to be consensus that it is personal preference if you use many groups or tabbing with one group.
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On June 11 2012 17:10 Areon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 06:50 JaKaTaK wrote:"The time has come to choose between what is right, and what is easy." Because what Nestea, MC and MVP have been doing is blatantly wrong and clearly the reason why they'll never win the GSL or ever have any scrap of success. Oh wait. While some of the Blizzard hotkeys are veritably ridiculous, I don't see the point of spending 40-60 games you could work on improving for the sake of learning a setup, especially when some of the most important aspects of the game are mechanics and proper response; higher APM doesn't mean anything if you aren't using those actions to do the right things. I'm curious if any pros or semi-pros adopt this since it just seems like an unnecessary extreme. Well, to be fair, it is.
Remember, they were already pros before you could even customize your keys. Changing for them could mean months without being able to participate in tournies.
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On June 11 2012 17:10 Areon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 06:50 JaKaTaK wrote:"The time has come to choose between what is right, and what is easy." Because what Nestea, MC and MVP have been doing is blatantly wrong and clearly the reason why they'll never win the GSL or ever have any scrap of success. Oh wait. While some of the Blizzard hotkeys are veritably ridiculous, I don't see the point of spending 40-60 games you could work on improving for the sake of learning a setup, especially when some of the most important aspects of the game are mechanics and proper response; higher APM doesn't mean anything if you aren't using those actions to do the right things. I'm curious if any pros or semi-pros adopt this since it just seems like an unnecessary extreme. Well, to be fair, it is.
I have my issues with the setup that I changed around and ill grant you it is an unnecessary extreme. However, 30 games in and I see the benefits. Where before there was an apm/multitasking wall, the ceiling has been raised. Engagement control is faster and more responsive. I had a lot of muscle memory to unlearn but once I rewired, this setup feels realy good. when some of the games most important aspects are mechanics, this actually does free up actions and time to respond properly. The hardest parts of the game to improve starts at about rank 25 master and up. This setup is great for increasing that extra mile.
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@Areon
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p3-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888746
Its wrong to say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Its more correct to say "you can probably improve what currently works"
I can only imagine the advantage a pro player could get by using this layout. And I am confident, that with time, I won't have to imagine it anymore. In my opinion, it's common sense to use a custom layout; and this one is the best I've seen.
@avenmarine
If you use only control for recalling cameras, does it not overwrite the ability to use ctrl to create a control group? I've heard a couple of people now say that hitting spacebar is easy. What do you press it with?
@bronze virus
get a two button mouse!!!! I can't imagine playing without one. It will help you to improve at any level of play.
@asdir
The reasons why we decided to go for 2CG tabbed production are as follows:
1. It allows a player to check all of their production quickly and without moving from the resting position.
-recalling the first 5 control groups are the most frequently pressed keys (excluding the attack command).
-recalling the first 5 control groups (with no action inbetween) are by far the most frequent 2 button combinations.
-These things combined (especially the button combination data) add up to "The Tap" being the most used button combination.
-This means that Checking Production happens more often than actually producing, and therefore takes priority.
2. It allows a player to have closer keys for all other control groups.
-more harass options
-faster harass options
-more army control options
-faster army control options
-faster spellcaster options
-Making all of these things faster, gets you to doing other actions faster.
These two reasons combined greatly outweigh the disadvantage of 2 CG tabbed production vs 4 CG tabbed production:
1. 2-3 more button presses when producing (which happens less often than checking production)
It is also important to note that as soon as you have 2 factories or starports, there is no advantage to having multiple control groups, because you still have to click on the wireframe to see the progress.
@udai
Concerning chronoboost, TheCore has 2 camera keys that are designed to be used for chronoboost, 1 for your rally point/proxy pylon and 5 for bases. This is IMO a much more reliable method to use than the "double tap to center" method I believe you are talking about (we spend extensive time working on understanding the mechanics behind the "double tap to center" and unfortunately, due to the fucked up priority system, this method is not reliable.)
@Tzuborg, sorry i missed your question before, the "jump to last alert" function is IMO not reliable at all, and has caused me more disadvantages than advantages. If anyone else has an opinion on this, I would be glad to hear it.
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Bronze player here, i have a pretty small hands and I've found shift and ctrl keys extremely uncomfortable to use with this layout on my Sidewinder X4 keyboard. However, I reconfigured my additional mouse buttons (Logitech G500) to use them as Shift and Ctrl keys, I'm still far away to feel comfortable with new layout, but it seems to be good. I need to practice it a lot.
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EPT
