EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 110
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
bourkes
Australia9 Posts
| ||
|
mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
 | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Not really sure why that's happening. Working on an update right now so I'll take a look at it. @mau5mat Thanks for the luck. Why are you going back to standard? | ||
|
skasse
United States2 Posts
I have my hotkeys in WOL and HOTS both using k for chrono boost. Not sure what the problem is that you're having but it looks like you need to do some trouble shooting. Try deleting the hotkey feel on your pc. Then when sc2 boots up, it will download the one on the server. Try rebinding again, if it still doesn't work, check the hotkey text file, or do it from the start. It works fine for me, so its not a theCore issue. @JaKaTak updating theCore again? everytime I'm about to hit diamond, i get hit with a mass overhaul, haha. I'm not worried though, each time has been for the better and for what its worth, I trust your judgement. | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On December 30 2012 10:29 skasse wrote: @bourkes; JaKaTaK I have my hotkeys in WOL and HOTS both using k for chrono boost. Not sure what the problem is that you're having but it looks like you need to do some trouble shooting. Try deleting the hotkey feel on your pc. Then when sc2 boots up, it will download the one on the server. Try rebinding again, if it still doesn't work, check the hotkey text file, or do it from the start. It works fine for me, so its not a theCore issue. @JaKaTak updating theCore again? everytime I'm about to hit diamond, i get hit with a mass overhaul, haha. I'm not worried though, each time has been for the better and for what its worth, I trust your judgement. Haha! Yea, 0.6 is the meta-proofing of TheCore. It'll make sure that the changing meta game has almost no impact on the efficiency of TheCore. If you play terran, I think you're really going to like it. (we're moving lift off/land) | ||
|
asdf3455
23 Posts
So unless you are genetically modified bonjwa from future who wants to get from 500 APM to 700 APM, this layout is useless waste of time. You are boasting that this layout is the most efficient, but did you ever bother to measure what can you actually do faster with it? And how much faster? You are now gonna change lift off and land button. Ridiculous. I bet you wont find single even hypothetical ingame situation where this allows you to do anything faster. (I am assuming that it is not currently on other side of keyboard in thecore). It might sound harsh but team liquid should ban you with your TheCore and TheStaircase. Even though you might have good intentions and do not profit from it, you are basically snake's oil salesman. You mislead and waste time of lots of people. Instead of your pompous pseudoscientific bullshit like this: On October 10 2012 04:29 JaKaTaK wrote: Psychology and Starcraft Games use a variety of psychological methods to get you to play and to keep playing. The Skinner Box is one of the more well known methods but there are others. Starcraft 2 has a form of this in the achievement system, but the reward isn't directly tied to improvement, which is what I wanted to do. I began looking for a better understanding of human motivation and found this talk by Dan Pink particularly interesting. <cool popular science stop motion video> I would definitely describe playing Starcraft as requiring more than "rudimentary cognitive skill" and therefore the motivators of Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose, apply here. Mastery is clearly a motivator for playing Starcraft. Purpose is somewhat distorted as the mainstream opinion of video games as a whole has been that they are a waste of time, that is changing slowly, but Starcraft has, i think, a particular role to play in this problem. It is an incredibly beneficial exercise and challenge. More and more studies are coming out about the benefits of playing Starcraft both mentally and physically. In the future I will be doing more research on this and collecting all of these things in one form or another, but until then there's one more motivator to address: Autonomy. You should instead add into your threads information like: "After playing SC2 for several months full time using TheCore and TheStaircase, after thousands of games I got promoted from Gold to Platinum with single race". "No relevant SC2 progamer ever completely changed their hotkeys, but you should do it, despite being physically able to have triple your APM with standard layout". Ban was obviously hyperbole, I think it would not be good decision to ban you. | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
| ||
|
HumpingHydra
Canada97 Posts
I think you're pretty silly. I find I can control 4-5 different control groups of units doing different things in different areas while hitting injects and making units. That is a rediculous improvement from the standard layout in which I had 1 hotkey for army and one for casters. I find that this is much more efficient. If I don't have to move my hands all over the place and bend really far to create/add/manage control groups thats a pretty big increase in efficiency. The Core is a pretty sweet layout. I am a big fan. | ||
|
kirika80
Israel17 Posts
On December 30 2012 00:33 JaKaTaK wrote: @kirka The things you are suggesting are exactly what we are doing! :D Although I didn't think of the uproot, lift-off thing. I'll have to look at the keys and see if I can make it work without sacrificing too much efficiency. As a random player, if you could list for me all the things you want to be the same between races, that would be tremendous help to me. Also, the fungal/psi storm/EMP was intentional select worker is not useful in the same way having a hotkey for rally is not useful. You can just make a box around the building and it will select your worker. Making room for a key in this situation is a mistake IMO. The only other thing I can think of for now us burrow and cloak, but I looked at it a bit and I don't think changing those keys would actually work without sacrificing too much (I might have missed something, though). EDIT: OK, a few more I just thought about (though you may have already done them)... * seeker, feedback, snipe, neural parasite, 250mm strike cannon - (single enemy target spells) * siege/unsiege, viking mode change, hellion/hellbat, warp prism mode change (do thors in hots have a mode change too?) * zerg burrow and seeker mine burrow About "select worker", I didn't mean that it should be on an efficient, easy to reach key, but it should still be part of the layout (like select idle warpgates) for people who still play WoL. On December 30 2012 04:10 maLaK1 wrote: please don't implement suggestions from people who don't actually use the core for the main race layouts I'm using it since the first version, and I can't speak for everyone but I would say that for people like us who have played hundreds of games using it and are used to the style and learned the keys its very comfortable dont sacrifice efficiency for simplicity or easiness to learn the layout example: as a zerg the uproot / rootr and burrow / unburrow are perfect I specifically said that for the race-specific layouts, the idea should be to match the off-race hotkeys to the main race and not sacrifice efficiency for the main. That means that in your case, I would try to change lift-off/land to use the same hotkeys as uproot/root without changing those. On December 30 2012 08:09 bourkes wrote: In RRMM using 0.5.1 in hots corno is k, but in wol corno is j, i have found it being on k slightly better, but when i play on wol i cant change it to k because it wont work, (it will change and show on the command card that it is k but i can't corno bost) This is something I reported a few posts back about RRM as well. The 'K' key is assigned to both chronoboost and build mothership, and that's what's causing the problem. What I did to solve it was to change mothership to '8' (the key used to build the mothership core in HotS) and that fixed it. | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Cool! I'll take a look at those ideas. But I still think you are misunderstanding me about "select worker"... select worker is a completely useless key for WoL and for HotS Its faster to box around your worker to select it, than to click on the barracks and then press the "select worker" button. | ||
|
PZ31k0nauT
13 Posts
.I´m using the core since 0.3 or so. Before that I used darkgrid. I´m glad that I switched to the core. Playing grid and standard layout felt like playing a not well designed guitar. Especially grid is not meant to be efficient. It´s ment to be easy. So what are my benefits? 1. It feels more balanced regarding usement of index, middle, ring finger and especially the pinky. 2. Less strain. I can play as long as I want without any trouble or pain in my keyboard hand. Great improvement. 3. It´s a lot easier to use basecams. I loooove the layered cameras. 4. It is easier for me to off-race. 5. With the core it´s pretty easy to create/add/overwrite control groups. At the moment I´m using 8-9 control groups. I wasn´t able to pull this off with standard layout (1a move and so on). So good for me then. ^^ Drawbacks for me? Yes. 1. It´s harder to type messages, because I have to shift the keyboard. But it´s nothing I can´t handle. Right now nothing more comes to my mind. Thank you for the core. ^^ It helps me a lot. For me the current beta version is far better than every layout blizzard had offered me. Have a good time. | ||
|
Doominator10
United States515 Posts
I tried using The Core: but as I am a laptop user and will not be getting another keyboard or space anytime soon, I gave up on it. However, I was inspired to check out DarkGrid, and have been using it for about half a year now. In my quest to improve, I tried finding unit testers and build order testers I could use instead of practicing vs AI to get used to DarkGrid. Since I couldn't really find any good ones (that were up to date), I ended up practicing vs AI, and completely screwed myself over when I went back to ladder. My late game bacame non existent. Went from almost getting to Masters (Rank 1 dia) to mid Dia (60ish or so by now). What I would love is a unit tester/ build order tester that is not crap and is simple to use. Your first post had a training method involving baneling drops and ze cameras. And a partner... What I want to do: Improve my multitasking: Build army and macro + Show Spoiler + What I would think ideal is having a dead-zone rally where you rally your units to and they die, just to keep supply from getting maxed. Think , how many rax can I support off of 3 bases? Instead of wasting time killing my own units , just send em to the dead zone. Use my cameras re-actively + Show Spoiler + I liked the baneling dropping training. Currently my cams are on 1, 2,3, and alt-QWEASDF. I still don't use my alt: cams because it is annoying trying to train w/ them against non-existent AI. Control a BIG late game army + Show Spoiler + Without something to control it against, I wind up just throwing everything onto 1 or 2 Ctrl groups and just going for it, even with my more accessible hotkeys. I want to have better practice with using all my hotkeys and the AI doesn't provide it... + Show Spoiler + {4 , 5 , 6 , R , T , Y , G , V , space} And some more stuff I cant even begin to imagine Do you think you could throw together a practice tester custom? Or know someone with the time who could? I wish I could, but IRL is a pain in the @$$.I think that regardless of if your using The Core, DarkGrid, or even just practicing w/ the standard layouts, a good practice tester (or practice tester set) should be a crucial part of any training regimen. Sans practice partners... (Even though I'm not using the core, thanks for helping me try to improve my game mechanics :D And curse you for bumping my ladder down >:S) | ||
|
RivalryRedux
United States173 Posts
On December 30 2012 14:40 asdf3455 wrote: Standard layout with few obvious modifications does not physically limit your APM. Anyone who considers switching to thecore should first compare both layouts outside the game just by trying to type sequences of hotkeys as fast as possible. They will find out that their raw speed is vastly superior to their ingame APM even with standard layout and likely more than bonjwa-level 300 APM, which is actually not as fast physically. For me it is more than 400 APM, even though in game I have only about 200 APM. And that includes mouse actions. So minus all of the haterade stuff your argument is essentially that it's the delay between sequences that is the most important thing in determining APM and the difficulty of the sequence isn't that important and the speed when you're trained will be very small. I don't disagree too much with that for maximum human APM but here's what I think the core does well. 1) It gives people a decent guide on how to set up and utilize all of their hotkeys. It gives a really solid baseline for any newer players on how to utilize all their keys so they can focus on just executing the keys and their build rather than worrying to much on how to set up their keyboard or more likely IMO just ignoring tons of keys. 2) It lowers the difficulty of performing many sequences. You yourself mention changing some standard hotkeys and this is most likely the reason. Pro gamers being really well trained can still pull off patrol micro with p for patrol and all kinds of other crazy across the keyboard combos if they had to but for the rest of us I feel like it makes it much easier to train with easier sequences. I feel like performing a difficult sequence is very distracting and can lead to MUCH longer delays if you're not trained. 3) You're less prone to make errors. I think the lower difficulty of the sequences means your going to have less of those "fuck I screwed up that control group" moments. It might not be that noticeable for a pro going from say 1 in a million keyboard errors to 1 in 2 million but for other people I think it could be pretty drastic from say 1 in a 1000 to 1 in 10000 and I think you could reach that 1 in a million faster. 4) Thumb action is just fucking sweet compared to using a pinky for control grouping. This is what hooked me initially, it felt soooooo much smoother and easier to me to control group without error that I would've switched for almost that alone. The rest of the keys were just a bonus. So basically I think that greatest benefit of The Core is helping players to maximize their mechanical improvement with the possibility of increasing their peak slightly with slight faster sequences and maybe there are just some sequences in standard that they would never really perfect but might now be able to because it's easier. | ||
|
Doominator10
United States515 Posts
| ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I have thought of all of these things! I really would like to design a practice map that is actually applicable to real game situations unlike most of the practice maps out there right now. This is likely a good place to fish for such map makers, and I'll definitely hit up the ones that I know and see if they're interested when I have time to start a new project and happy birthday random dude (RivalryRedux) ...you do play random, don't you? | ||
|
bourkes
Australia9 Posts
while this doesn't change my over apm much, and spam apm is the same, it does make my apm a lot more usefull and more efficient and is what i needed to get passed my controll and amp block. I think this is a great layout, if you don't like it don't use it, or give it a try for 200-300 and try to learn it then come back and say what you think | ||
|
ISeeLDuR
Poland2 Posts
And by the way - Happy New Year to everyone! | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I'll get on that! It was likely an oversight on my part TheDataDocument is correct! EDIT: Oversight on my part when making the files. It is fixed now. The fix is only in the "I know my version name" Folder though. I'm going to wait for some more bug fixes to put everything in its proper folder (its a huge pain in the ass). TheCore 0.6 Patch Notes Remember TheDataDocument is correct! so report any inconsistencies between your file and the data document. Make sure you download from the "I know my version name" Folder for the latest bug fixes. EDIT #2: Okay... so don't quote me on this on or anything, but I think... you can play the campaign with TheCore 0.6 now. Uploading new files now. Enjoy:D | ||
|
tinyblckazn
China7 Posts
Factory tech lab research are switched | ||
|
JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
| ||
| ||
